YEM Custom Pack help

[fantomx2019]

Hello.
I have a Tyros 4. I just registered it on yamaha site, including https://eu.yamahamusicsoft.com.
I exported the ID from Tyros, but, I can´t find on the site, how can I download the .n27 ID for the YEM software.
Maybe I am wrong, and the YEM works only for Premium Packs?
I saw that I can make my own pack , exported on the stick, but my tyros doesn´t see it.
Probably because it is not registered with the (.n27), i don´t know.
Can please, someone explain, how to make this work? to upload my own pack in to the Tyros 4?
I made the pack with YEM 2.3.2 with some custom voices and custom kits. that´s all.
Thank you.

[Bill]

Hi FantomX

As Ian has said earlier in another thread  - The Tyros 4 does NOT use the YEM.  The YEM is only compatible with more recent keyboards.

Bill

[Pino]

Yamaha has a very cunning plan
Change the format every 5 years and force the customers to buy new keyboards

If I had a Tyros 4 I would find enough on-board styles and voices
To play a 3 hour gig, YEM does not make anyone play better.
All the GENOS styles will work on the T4,

Pino

[EileenL]

Tyros 4 uses UVN files which can be loaded into the keyboard from USB into the separate slots you have to assign them to. To use these you will also need Dimms memory. Yamaha also did packs for the Tyros 4 which you loaded in straight from the USB stick.

[fantomx2019]

Well. I am a sound engineer, I make sound design, and I am using Tyros 4 as workstation, not arranger.
That is why I exchanged my old Roland Fantom X7 for this beauty.
I love Yamaha Tyros 4 but...
Knowing how to program samplers, custom voices, drums, and colecting from 1990 a lot of samples from a lot of keyboards, i have reached the limit of 128 custom Voice, and 20!!!! , just 20 Custom Drums.
That is my problem.
That is why I ask how can I make my own "premium" packs for the T4.
I have used only 32% of the 1014 flash RAM, but have no custom slots free to upload more uvd/uvn.

So...
Is there a way to do that?
Thank You.

[fantomx2019]

So. I bought the cheapest pack just to register my tyros, and to see wth contains.
It is a folder named .YP2
and it has:
Some instruments and drums, named with .CV1
A list of instruments and name of the pack .VLI
some styles .sty
some pads .pad
some registrations .RGT
a midi file as demo .mid
and the waveform bank .CV0

I tried to make a new folder XYZ.YP2 , copy some uvn and uvd files, some styles.
It did copy the XYZ.YP2 as premium pack, but, the instruments are copied on HD as uvn and not seen as expansion sounds.

Is there a way to convert uvn to CV1 ?

[EileenL]

You need a CVF file to load into the YEM before you can make an install pack for your keyboard.

[fantomx2019]

CVF file

And that is
Is there a way to transform let's say , .vce to .cv ?

[EileenL]

Tyros 4 dose not use the YEM for voices. You use Dimms memory and have 128 slots that you can load sample voices into. You can also create Library's of different packs and voice mixes. Packs you buy from Yamaha will load into a different section but are still UVN type files. Tyros 4 will not recognise PPF or CPF files so you cant change anything to alter voices you have already.

[Joe H]

And that is
Is there a way to transform let's say , .vce to .cv ?

A .vce is a SMF (Standard MIDI File) that contains XG messages to modify Right and Left Voices on the keyboard.

You have been given good advice here on how to create and load custom Voices into your T4.  Looks like you are making it difficult for yourself trying to find some unconventional ways. Why not just follow the normal protocol?  Most importantly, the T4 is NOT supported in YEM... so forget the YEM software for the Tyros 4.

Joe H

[tyrosaurus]

You have been given good advice here on how to create and load custom Voices into your T4.  Looks like you are making it difficult for yourself trying to find some unconventional ways. Why not just follow the normal protocol?

Hi Joe H,

All that the OP is trying to do is to make full use of the very expensive flash memory on his expansion board!

His problem is that he has used up all of the 128 available slots in the custom voice table with the voices that he has currently loaded, but the wave samples associated with these voices only occupy around one third of the flash memory on the board.  Other than the 20 additional slots available for custom drum voices, he can't add any more voices even though he has lots of empty flash memory.

However, he has realised that the wave samples from Yamaha Premium Packs are loaded onto the same expansion board, but they do not make use of slots in the custom voice table, so all that he is asking is if there is any way to 'package' some more of his own UVN voices to use T4's premium pack loading procedure and hence use the empty expansion memory.

I don't think that this is an unreasonable request.  Its not as if he is trying to pirate copyrighted content.

Unfortunately I don't believe that he will be able to do this because Yamaha has the protection for their Premium Packs set up to be tighter than a duck's #### (enter your own word here!).   There are also other limits relating to 'Wave Counts' for example, which once reached, prevent loading extra voices of any type, even Yamaha Premium Packs, regardless of how much empty expansion memory remains on the board!  I ran into this problem myself using mainly Yamaha Premium Packs where I couldn't load another pack because I had reached the Wave Count limit even though almost one third of the memory was empty!  Yamaha attempted a half hearted fix for this in firmware update 1.10 and although it helped, it was obviously what was easy for them to do rather than what was actually required!  The introduction of YEM with the Tyros5 and PSR-S models resolved this problem.

The only thing that I think fantomx2019 is going to be able to do, is what has already been suggested by others, which is to make different 'libraries' and load them as required.  Each one would make 128 'normal' voices and 20 drum voices available for use. A library file is nothing more than a list of voice files (the individual UVN/UVDs), where to find them, and the 'slot' number to load them into.     

This can take time to load depending on the number of voices involved.

However there is another poorly designed 'feature' of the Tyros4 OS which he could possibly take advantage of to speed things up!

When you install/load a custom voice for the first time, its associated wave samples have to be loaded onto the expansion memory board and this is what takes up most of the time.

However when you delete expansion voices from slots in the custom wave table, this does not automatically delete their wave samples from the expansion memory, and they will sit there until you delete them manually.  If you don't delete the waves and later reload one of these voices, the OS is clever enough to realise that the wave samples associated with the voice are already on the expansion board, so it does not try to load them again, and instead just loads the voice information, which is a much quicker process.

So, if you save all of the voices currently loaded in a library, then delete them from their slots, their waves will still be on the expansion memory board.  The next time that you load them it should take only a short time because the waves will not need to be reloaded.

You can then load new voices to the slots to make another library. When you first do this it will take a while, because it has to load the wave samples for each new voice to the expansion memory.  However as above if you save the voices from the slots as a library, you can delete them from the slots or simply overwrite them with other voices, and as long as you don't delete the wave samples from the expansion memory board, they can be loaded again very quickly.

You should be able to continue loading new voices (UVN/UVD) which will load their wave samples, and incorporate them into libraries if you want up to the limit of available space on the expansion memory board, or the Wave Count limit, whichever is reached sooner.

Although this is not ideal, once you have added the wave samples for all of your voices to the expansion memory board, it at least gives you relatively quick way of selecting and loading the 128 UVN and 20 UVD that you want to use on any given occasion. You can load individual ones as well as whole libraries. 


Regards

Ian
   

[Joe H]

Thanks Ian for the long explanation... I had a chance to buy one at a good price; I'm glad I didn't purchase a T4.  Sounds like it would be easier for the OP to buy a T5.  There are other shortcomings with the T4 as well but I won't go into them here.  It's like the T4 was a mistake.

Joe H

[EileenL]

I  don't think Tyros 4 was a mistake as it was a very nice keyboard but people requested a different system on the next model and Yamaha obliged. As we know technology always moves forward in new models.
With Tyros 4 it is good to defrag the memory from time to time as this can free up some space.

[Joe H]

There are other shortcomings with the T4 as well but I won't go into them here.  It's like the T4 was a mistake.
Joe H

My statement above should NOT be construed as a statement toward T4 owners.  The T4 is not the only Yamaha MIDI product that I consider they made a mistake releasing before it was complete.

My MU100R sound module has a glitch in the OS that was never fixed. By the time I discovered it... it was too old a product to offer a patch to fix the bug. 

Also the XG plug-in cards were designed without NVRAM (non-volatile RAM) so if I load a custom bank of sounds, they are lost when the power is turned Off on the sound module... BIG mistake. 

Then there is the Motif Rack XS, which is for the most part a sound module of the Motif XS keyboard.  Yamaha should have released the Motif Rack XS with sockets for DIMMS memory boards like the keyboard version.  Another big mistake.

And finally... I think the S970 (which I own) was a mistake. (it has short-comings) The S975 is the real S970.  Yamaha took ideas from this forum and implemented in the S975 of which the OS had to be re-written to implement those ideas.

Some might say this is Yamaha's marketing strategy but even big companies like Yamaha do make design errors. There were many fixes and upgrades to the Motif over a 15 year period. Some of it had to do with better hardware components, (therefore a new model keyboard) but there were software (firmware, OS) improvements that were a response to user complaints/requests.

Last but not least... The Montage and MODX should have had an analog synth engine in them instead of a FM synth engine.  Analog is by far more popular a sound with the younger generation than FM these days. A BIG BIG mistake!

So... hopefully the Genos and PSR SX900 will be developed like the Motif line... an expandable OS code that allows more than just bug fixes, and include the ability to add new features.  Now that would NOT be a mistake for Yamaha.



Cheers,
Joe H

[overover]

... Is there a way to transform let's say , .vce to .cv ?

Hi fantomx2019,

to my knowledge it is NOT possible (for a "normal user", without internal Yamaha programs) to make a .CV1 (Crypted Voice Set) file  from a standard .VCE Voice Set file or to make a .CV0 (Crypted Voice Pack) file from normal Wave data or existing Custom Voices (.UVN/.UVD/.TVN/.TVD).

.CV1 and .CV0 are CRYPTED files (file header like "XVHD   PTYROS4    V0.01    CSEC   PZQ"). You probably will NOT can get the necessary internal Yamaha program needed to create these file formats (used to make Yamaha Premium Packs).


Best regards,
Chris