Is it still worth spending money on arranger keyboard anymore?- Personal opinion

[DerekA]

I keep planning to sit down with the laptop connected up to the tyros and properly try out some new vst instruments. But then I find I've sat for an hour just playing with the inbuilt styles and voices.

So my point is that yes, no doubt you get a better bang for the buck using software. But for me, the simplicity of just sitting playing is still a lot of fun.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Genos and vst software will open the Universe for you

[mikf]

I have never really understood the fascination with 'voices'. A nice voice ...ok .... but surely it's what you play on the instrument that really matters, as long as the voice is in tune, not distorted and has good tone.
Just my opinion.
Mike

[DerekA]

I think that sometimes the sound itself can provoke an emotional response, not just the tune it's playing.

[DrakeM]

If you are not playing live with an arranger then everyone knows you are just playing Karaoke with an MP3 file or a midi file .. Right?

[Joe H]

I have never really understood the fascination with 'voices'. A nice voice ...ok .... but surely it's what you play on the instrument that really matters, as long as the voice is in tune, not distorted and has good tone.
Just my opinion.
Mike

It's a matter of what your interest is. What you play is ok, but what sounds that are used (arrangement) makes all the difference in the pleasure derived.  There are exceptions of coarse.  Some songs are so perfect, that no matter what instrument(s) is used, it is universally appealing and pleasing to all.

I think that sometimes the sound itself can provoke an emotional response, not just the tune it's playing.

Yamaha has always promoted the idea that a particular sound (Voice) can inspire a new song or tune.  I think that's true. Sound is everything.  You can listen to music through el cheapo monitor speakers (sounds like a 1965 transitor radio) or through a modern-day high fidelity stereo.  It's the same music; but sounds are much better on the stereo.



Joe H

[mikf]

I think that sometimes the sound itself can provoke an emotional response, not just the tune it's playing.

Maybe - but it's short lived. Kinda like visiting the Great Wall of China, you marvel at it for a few minutes, then you think ..now what?

Joe, I guess its just not my big interest, and I respect that it fascinates some people much more than me. But I also dont think it matters much to the general public. If I take a standard style on a decent arranger like a Genos and play 'Stardust' , they will probably think it sounds great. So then I edit and tweak every voice in that style to complete perfection, then play it again. Would anyone even notice?
But now Oscar Peterson comes in and plays stardust.... and I guarantee they will notice!

Mike

[panos]

I wouldn't have spent a week of my free time to improvise "something" if there wasn't this style Mike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ziAcYHE9Y

I just liked the backing tracks and had some fun with it.
No sheet music to tell me what and how to play it, to sound correct. Yippee!!!! 

Same goes with different kinds of sounds.
Like you mix notes and harmonies, the "mixing" of different sounds can give you "excitement".

There are some tunes that where finally successful because a different voice (singer) sang them anyway.

Also keep in mind that some of us appreciate a lot "synthesizer" sounds and music.

As for the general public,I don't like what they like in music and they don't like what I like,so everything is fine

[Joe H]

... As for the general public,I don't like what they like in music and they don't like what I like,so everything is fine

Amen to that!

      

Joe H

[mikf]

Panos - well entertaining ourselves creating sounds is fine. But for myself, all the greatest times I had as a musician, and all the best memories, involve some kind of an audience, or other musicians. I would think that is true for most musicians. Do you think Beethoven wrote without caring if anyone else ever heard it, or liked it, or Pavarotti honed his voice so he could sing in the shower?
I agree with Joe that things sound better on a decent sound system - when you compare the sublime to the mediocre. But my point is that there is a law of diminishing returns. Once they sound really good, sounding a little better gets to mean less and less. I think that is already generally the case with the modern TOTL keyboards, you can add convenience features, you can make them sound a tiny bit better, - all nice for the player or enthusiast, but its not a groundbreaking difference to the average audience any more. And it's almost as nothing compared to the quality of the playing or singing, which pretty much everyone notices instantly.         
Mike 

[Joe H]

Mike,

It sounds like you do not understand that for MOST of the forum members here (several thousand), playing our arrangers is just a hobby. We are NOT entertainers per se... maybe we just like to entertain ourselves by playing at home. 

For me (I am more of a technical guy than musician) I like the challenge of creating new styles and Multi Pads and programming and creating remote access to my MIDI equipment (just like some programmers get a kick out of writing code to make things happen)

It's a different kind of creativity than just playing music.  I really enjoy my hobby immensely.   



Joe H

[panos]

I am not against talented keyboard playing of course!
I wish i could play good and fast piano!!
But as long as I am not good, I just play music for my own pleasure.
I don't have an audience when I sit on my keyboard to care about if it likes the song or my playing.
If I were a professional I would have played what the audience wanted to hear of course.
(and at home for my pleasure the music I wanted to hear, I guess  )

Beethoven liked the sounds of the nature at his walks in the woods.
I just wanted to indicate why some people give that importance also to the quality of the "sounds".
Keep in mind that we may like electronic music because we like how it sounds.
It doesn't mean that we don't mind about a good playing and we just care about the sound.
Many times our playing is too limited.Our hands just won't follow any more "orders" no matter how hard we try.
So why not improving at least how we can sound better with a new model or by using other methods too if we can?
We are not trying to "fool" or impress an audience.We just want to have fun in our free time.

[mikf]

 I fully understand that Joe. I myself have not played as a pro for many, many years. And I get it that for some people the core of the hobby might be playing around with technical things like editing styles, voices etc. That is their choice and what they should do.
But for many members and arranger owners the heart of the hobby would actually be playing music, not playing with the technology. They prefer to just switch on and play, without getting too deeply into the guts of what makes the sound. I know I do. And I believe the modern arranger does largely deliver on that for many.
Mike

[Bachus]

If you like playing arrangers, buy one, and enjoy it..

[Toril S]

And we all did that, and have a lot of fun😀

[Bachus]

And we all did that, and have a lot of fun😀

Money well spend i would say

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
Of course it is, if it makes us happy and we can afford it , why not.
Only a hobbyist.
Not everyone has the same needs. If you just want to sit down and play, or buy it to tweak it ( if you're a bit of techie). Great. You can't beat an arranger keyboard.

If someone just wants backing tracks or creating songs,  and not necessarily playing it live, of course there's other options to buying an arranger keyboard.
Band in a Box, 
software real-time arrangers, like VArranger.
DAWS, vsts.

Basically to each ,their own.

[valio7771]

Apologies to bring up an old post back up, but I wanted to share a short piece of music that I've created in just a few hours of playing around with some VST's. Really looking forward for the time when Yamaha workstations would sound like that for only about 300-ish euro. That's how much I've spent in total for some hardware and software so far, in order to create that sound, and that's just the tip of the iceberg compared to what's out there at my disposal. Enjoy.

Cheers!

Valentin

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[hans1966]

Hi Valentin, beautiful piece of music. Thanks for sharing. Regards. Hans

[ekurburski]

Nice sound.  I for one appreciate the us of vsts.  It greatly expands the pallate of sounds available.  Much like a painter with a full assortment of colors and hues vs one with a basic set of 8 colors.

[Toril S]

Beautiful music Valentin.
But I prefer my keyboards

[markstyles]

I LOVE the Genos, and Tyros line before them..   The first arranger I used was Band-in-a-box, almost 30 years ago.   I quit playing in bands, and working in studios when I was 30.  I enjoy playing all the parts.   Before arrangers it was a much more laborious process.  You had to 'build' the song to a certain stage, to really feel 'where it was going to go.    I never used any arranger, as the whole entity of the song.    (Granted the Tyros and Genos are great playing live, in one take)..

What I loved about Band-in-a-box was that it would give you a quick sound picture of what the song was going to sound like.  Previous to that, it would take me a few hours to build the song, then realize I wanted to change the chords, the key, change tempo, etc.   Then have to start from scratch again.  With Genos you can very quickly create a song.  Listen, and redo to make any changes you want. 

I sometimes use the style created parts as is.  Quite often I use it as the starting idea and build from there.   

I think each persons approach is individual.  If I was a brilliant piano player (which I am not)..  I would likely be more inclined to play solo piano.  The beauty of an arranger kbd is, you can use it to varying degrees.  If you joy and fun, playing live.  it's perfect for that.  If you want to create the 'bed' of the song, and play your own melody, or overdub additional line onto the song.

It is extremely satisfying to play a keyboard and have it create a rich full sound.  It's up to each person's technique and use, how effective an arranger kbd is to them.

[30SWG]

Hi Valio, I think we should all look at what fantastic improvements have been made in such a short time to keyboards. Go back a few years and you had to be content with a few electronic sounds, nothing like authentic, selected by buttons or numbers. However with better quality sound, digital processing and incredible mixing and all manner of manipulation, even built in synthesized original sounds can be manufactured.  We can create or even replicate sounds of how we remember them from original bands or singers. Even the fatar keyboard bed has a variable touch which is just superb.
In my instance I started with one of the first arranger keyboards the Casio MZX-500  which was no slouch either but graduating from the Yamaha PSR 410, then PSR 970, then the Genos came with quantum leaps both in the number of quality sounds, styles, midi capabilities and pedal board support for its fabulous Cathedral sounds. However, the greatest improvement has to be the 9" colour touch screen with such quick setup and retrieval or viewing of sub screens and more direct access to vital, quick program changes through many selectable registrations is a fantastic improvement. How the instrument can produce authentic sounding 32 foot organ pipes with thunderous power through its superb sub woofer still amazes me. Add John Beesley's V-Console for 8 extra ranks, couplers and many other enhancements and you have the ultimate keyboard. The version 2 upgrade by Yamaha is another leap forward. Perhaps approaching 80 years of age I've been fortunate to witness all these remarkable advancements and live to enjoy them.

[Toril S]

I agree! KeYboards have become fantastic instruments!!