Digital Piano Yamaha P-125 (but no midi in/out)

[voodoo]

Hi,

last week I was at a rehearsal in a room of another band and there I played on a Yamaha P-105 digital piano. I was very impressed by the keybed and the sound. That was really fun.

So I decided to get the current model P-125, since I was looking for a mobile hammer piano keybed since a long time. I like it a lot, only 11 Kg and very compact, including many good sounds and even built in speakers, and supporting half pedaling.

But I am very surprised that most portable digital pianos in he price range under 1000$ do not have midi in/out connections. How do they think we should connect to external sound generators?

Ok, it has usb connection including midi and audio interface, so you can record midi and audio using smart pianist on iPad (or DAW an Mac/PC).

But no traditional midi in/out means no connection to Genos.

Any ideas?

Uli

[SeaGtGruff]

What you need is some interface or device that can function as a USB host device and route the MIDI back and forth between them. There are a number of such that you can choose from, ranging in price from under $100 to over $200. I'll try to post a list of links later.

[overover]

Hi Uli,

please check your PM inbox!


Best regards,
Chris

[voodoo]

hey all,

thanks for your replies so far. Helpful as always.

So as I read (thanks to Chris), there are small and affordable solutions for USB-Host-Midi solutions.

* Kenton Midi USB Host (the well known) for 124 €
* Miditech USB MIDI Host (79€) (Midi In + Out)
* Mode Machines Cerebel USB V2 (59€) (only MIDI out)

But all these solutions (found in the Yamaha forum) need external power supply over micro usb plug. So it is no nice solution as compared to a simple midi cable. :-|

As an alternative, I will try another solution

* Take an iPhone with any midi routing app (like Audiobus 3)
* Take a lightning to USB adapter (camera connection kit)
* Take a small passive 2-port USB hub
* Connect the Piano with a simple USB printer cable
* Connect the Genos with a USB cable or USB-to-Midi interface cable

So any smart phone can act as a USB host nowadays to connect any class compliant midi controller to the Genos.

And when an iPad is used with the Smart Pianist App, this iPad can be used to route the midi messages to the Genos as well.

(Or will they add midi class compliant usb host capabilities to Genos with firmware 1.4?)

Uli

[Yinon]

Hi Uli,

Excellent post, Like you are I'm looking for a heavier action piano to drive the Yamaha C7 sample on Genos.
The Casio PXS1000 and 3000 are supposed to be a great fit but no 5 pin Midi ports ... WHY???

This is so simple.

Please post if your routing solution works.
Thanks

[voodoo]

Hi Yinon,

nice to see, that others have the same idea.

There are other candidates, too:

* Yamaha P-125: no midi out
* Roland FP-30: no midi out
* Kawai ES110: Yes, has midi in/out
* Casio PX-S1000: no midi out

So if you are looking for midi out, you should consider the Kawai ES110. It has a very good reputation, as well.

For me, the midi connection is not the highest prio. I like the Yamaha for these reasons:

* Comfortable user interface (more hardware buttons than the others) including split and layer.
* Half pedaling with my existing Yamaha FC3 pedal.
* USB connection to iPad including midi and audio interface. Thus allows to use the iPad as a sound generator.

Uli

[DerekA]

I'd agree with Michael, a USB host is the simple solution.

Nowadays many power outlet strips also have a couple of USB power ports on them so it's not that hard to plug the host in alongside the main instrument.

[SeaGtGruff]

I was going to post a nice list of URLs from the Keyboard magazine forums, but they were down for a server migration.

But if you can use a smartphone or tablet, that's good-- no need to buy anything else if you already have something that can do the job, especially if it's something you might already be using anyway to run one or more apps with your keyboard(s).

There's an iOS app called Midiflow that can do all sorts of MIDI routing and processing.

[voodoo]

Michael,

thank you very much. This forum is always of great help.

Thank you for mentioning Midiflow. I like it very much. Audiobus 3 has a similar midi routing. And there are other apps like iMIDIPatchbay or midimittr. I will post some photos when I am done with experimenting.

Uli

[voodoo]

But, not talking about midi connection:

has anybody tried the P-125 (or P-115)  and has an opinion about whether it is a good investment?

Uli

[Yinon]

Hi Uli,

Not sure if you are in the US.
Adormama dot com is having a sale today for Kawai ES8.

A new one will cost today $1199 with free shipping.
I ordered one. 

[voodoo]

Hi Uli,

Not sure if you are in the US.
Adormama dot com is having a sale today for Kawai ES8.

A new one will cost today $1199 with free shipping.
I ordered one. 

Thank you for this news. In Germany it costs 1329€. But it has 22.5 kg, where as the P-125 has only 11.8 kg. So I will give the light one a first try.

Uli

[frankmusik]

Hi Uli,
we use the sevillasoft adaptors USB to Midi ... they work fine and are cheap. (but for sure they also need power supply as the p- Serie also does!)

The industrie will remove MIDI more and more because not even 5% will ever use the midi connection in future ...
I see how midicable sales are getting down ... maybe in 5-10 years only for "vintage" use....

And for the yam pianos: most professionals using Midi take the CP Series or 515 including Midi :-)

greetings frank

[SeaGtGruff]

I think MIDI DIN ports will probably always be available on high-end "pro" gear, although this might depend on how well MIDI DIN connectors and MIDI cables work with the new MIDI 2.0 specs, and whether something better (faster, etc.) is being developed.

[rikkisbears]

Thanks Guys,
I'm hoping to buy a Yamaha digital piano, and the no midi in/out was an issue for me also ,  try and work my way thru the posts and work out best solution for me.
At least now I know there is one, should I decide to buy the piano.

[voodoo]

There is breaking news:

Montage supports USB midi devices starting with firmware 3.0 since today.

So we can play the Montage using the P-125 digital piano hammer action keybed.

And now I am hoping, that this will be possible for MODX (firmware update 2.0 in october) and GENOS (firmware update expected for october/november).

Uli

[Dwooden]

Uli, I see that you have a Nord Electro.
I have the same and want to use my P-125 as a master and use the sounds from the Nord.
Have you tried connecting these two together? And if you did, how did you do it?

Thanks!
/Dave

[voodoo]

Hi Dave,

since the P-125 has no midi out (only via USB), there ist no easy way to connect the two keyboards. And I did not find one until now. Only way is to use some additional hardware in between, like iPad oder something else.

Uli

[Dwooden]

Hi Uli,

Thanks for your response. 

Another question, if I want to use my P-125 as the masterkeyboard with the sounds from the Nord, can I connect the P-125 with the USB to a Kenton Midi USB Host or some other sort and then connect the midi in and out to the Nord?
If not, what device should I get?

/Dave

[voodoo]

Hi Dave,

that's exactly the way to go. I would recommend:

* I would use another usb host like these two:
  https://www.thomann.de/de/mode_machines_cerebel_usb.htm (59€, only midi out)
  https://www.thomann.de/de/miditech_usb_midi_host.htm (79€, midi in and out)

* As an alternative, one could use an old iPhone or iPodTouch as USB host. I plan to setup my old iPhone 6s as a host for my wireless IK Multimedia Blueboard.

Uli

[chuckeys123]

I own a p125, and am thinking about connecting to another sound engine.  If you do this in a live situation, how do you change to different sound patches on you external sound source, and do you have to manually turn the local p125 volume off?

[pjd]

I would recommend:

Hello Uli --

Thanks for recommending these products. I wasn't familiar with the Mode Machines Cerebel. I think the MidiTech is also sold under the MidiPlus brand, which is available through Amazon USA for interested NA members.

Given the wireless interference issues in our neighborhood (lots of networks and nerds), I'm beginning to preferred wired solutions.

Take care -- pj

[voodoo]

Hi pj,

thanks you your interception, always welcome.

Your are right to prefer wired solutions over wireless. My motivation for wires is latency.
But the Blueboard is wireless, so it cannot be attached by wire.

  https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigblueboard/

For connecting two keyboards by USB without midi ports, I think about the following solution:

* Any iOS device (iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch)
* A lightning to USB adapter (aka camera connection kit)
* A USB hub with at least two ports
* Two Classic USB cables (aka printer cables)
* Any midi routing software for iOS (midimittr, Midiflow, Audiobus 3, iMIDIPatchbay)

So if you already have an iOS device, you don't need an external USB host. And it's completely wired. And it should work with Android, too.

Uli

P.S: The MODX V2.0 has a builtin midi usb host, so you can connect a P-125 and a MODX directly using only a USB printer cable.

[rikkisbears]

For connecting two keyboards by USB without midi ports, I think about the following solution:

* Any iOS device (iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch)
* A lightning to USB adapter (aka camera connection kit)
* A USB hub with at least two ports
* Two Classic USB cables (aka printer cables)
* Any midi routing software for iOS (midimittr, Midiflow, Audiobus 3, iMIDIPatchbay)

Hi,
what exactly are you referring to

* A USB hub with at least two ports

I already happen to own all the  other items you mentioned.
 

I had mine connected the following way, but there was a very vague feeling of latency, maybe how was I was
Bluetooth  wasn't correct,  but it did actually work except for that really vague hint of latency.
* iOS device.   iPad.
* A lightning to USB adapter (aka camera connection kit) is  iPad Connected to p121 via printer cable
* A UD BT01.  Bluetooth device  connected to my SX900 via printer cable
* midi routing software for iOS (Midiflow)

Since my setup is for home use only and I found a convenient spot for my laptop  ( which I rarely use anymore except for a bit of style editing and biab software, I decided to try it as an interface
No latency as far as I can tell , if some , certainly less than my iPad setup above using Bluetooth.
Basically I just connected the sx900 via the printer cable to  the laptop, did the same with the p121.
I used xg works as interface software, set up  the midi in / midi out for the  2 keyboards. Pressed the record icon ( nothing is actually recording)  basically set and forget.  I can now use the p121 as a controller of sorts for the sx.
I have mine in an L shape setup, I don't like stacking keyboards on top of the other. The buttons on the sx are within reach, but I've been setting up the registrations in a list , so all I need to do is press the pedal and  it changes them.  Virtually have 3 pedals now , the sustain on the p121, the other two on the sx.

Still luv to know about the USB hub,  I'd be happier using the iPad  rather than the laptop.

[pjd]

Hi Uli and everyone --

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm just starting to experiment and am, unfortunately, working around an old iPad (gen 4) stuck at iOS 10.3. Thus, I'm playing with solutions that get iOS out of the way. (For now.)

For grins, I took advantage of a holiday sale to buy an AirTurn BT-400S. It is reasonably configurable and has a MIDI mode that sends actual MIDI over Bluetooth natively. I'll let you know how it works out.

One issue is the way Bluetooth sets up connections. A thing is either a Central or a Peripheral. Peripherals advertise their availability. Centrals scan for peripherals who are advertising. Yamaha's UD- and MD-BT01 are always peripherals. Yamaha assume that you will always be using a Central like an iOS tablet or Android tablet. There's the rub when you want a -BT01 to -BT01 connection. It needs some kind of bridge in the middle.

The scenario that I'd like to get to is an SHS-500 Sonogenic directly connected to a Bluetooth MIDI interface on the MODX or Genos -- no bridge.

I stumbled across the CME WIDI Master recently. It is similar to the MD-BT01. However, it will know how to be a Central as well as a Peripheral. It should be possible to have a direct WIDI Master to WIDI Master connection. Maybe Yamaha can update their firmware???

Thanks for the info -- pj

[voodoo]

Hi pj,

you are getting exactly the point. Most Bluetooth devices are clients, that cannot connect to each other without a host. (The same with USB clients and hosts.)

I would like to connect my iRig Blueboard (Bluetooth Client) to the Genos with BT01 (Bluetooth client). It only works if you use any smart device (PC, Mac, Smartphone) as a host in the middle that connects to the two clients.

Bluetooth-Pedal -> smartphone <- BT01 -> Genos

Uli

[MikeW1964]

greetings all

I just purchased a Nord Electro 6D and have had the P-125 for several years.
this post was helpful to figure out how to connect them and use the P-125 (the action is great) as a controller to the piano engine in the Nord.

I purchased the "midiplus (USB MIDI Host)" 61 USD  to make the connection.
Was able to control the Electro from the p-125 and thought I was all set...

After playing for a 10 minutes the unit lost communication and after a hard power reset was functioning again.
after a few more days of testing I find it can "last" anywhere from a few minutes to a 1/2 hour before it needs a reset. The "panic" button has not affect, only a power cycle.
changed usb and midi cables a few times, no change. swapped the sustain pedal on the P-125 to an m-audio, no change


I have a replacement unit coming and have also ordered a 2 other devices to test them as well since
"Miditech USB MIDI Host MIDI Interface" - from amazon
"MIDI USB Host Interface for USB keyboard and legacy MIDI DIN device" - ebay, looks like no-name brand, 1 person shop but $39 USB I'll take a chance.


anyone  using any of these  USB-Midi hosts from the P-125 to any other keyboard that is 100% reliable?


The Kenton is a bit more $ but that'll probably be my next stop.

thanks

-MikeW

[MikeW1964]

The "MIDI USB Host Interface for USB keyboard and legacy MIDI DIN device" works reliably. used it for practice last night and it worked fine for 4+ hours so I have a solution that works

I bought it here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MIDI-USB-Host-Interface-for-USB-keyboard-and-legacy-MIDI-DIN-device/174364677593?hash=item2898f1d5d9:g:V~oAAOSw97peUNa-