Genos and Competition ?

[beykock]

Hi Don :

Thank you for your reply.
Nice to share your gigging experiences.👍

Babette

[pjd]

Very down to earth statement don .LOL .. But only true if you already do the basics well - like pick suitable songs, sing in tune and play competently - as you and Gary definitely do
I'll bet that no one has ever told either of you the performance sucks because you overused the DSPs or because the styles are not well written, or because you need to tweak the equalizer. Unless it is amazingly bad, this is the stuff that only the player might notice, and even then more down to personal preference than good or bad.
Mike

Amen! Most of the comments that I get from people is when the music moves them emotionally. They could care less about the actual technology.

-- pj

[StuartR]

I have found a hen's tooth. My local Guitar Center has a Korg Pa700 on the floor! This is the first time that I have found a demo Korg in the Boston area -- ever!

I don't want to provoke a Korg vs. Yamaha discussion. After trying some voices and styles, I hear and respect why some musicians prefer Korg. Vive la difference! Having been spoiled by Genos, I'm quite happy with my Genos. I did like Korg's Hammond B3 and even folks on the Yamaha Synth forum would agree that Yamaha needs to strengthen drawbar organ and rotary speaker emulation.

I didn't have time to try and evaluate workflow, etc. Maybe some other time. I have too much going on in real life, right now.

All the best -- pj

P.S. I like the Wurlitzer EP, too. It totally nails "What'd I Say".

I bought the PA1000 last year and use it for impromptu jam sessions as it has a 60w/ channel amp and speakers. Sounds pretty good too but of course the keyboard doesn't compare to the Genos.

[DonM]

Very down to earth statement don .LOL .. But only true if you already do the basics well - like pick suitable songs, sing in tune and play competently - as you and Gary definitely do
I'll bet that no one has ever told either of you the performance sucks because you overused the DSPs or because the styles are not well written, or because you need to tweak the equalizer. Unless it is amazingly bad, this is the stuff that only the player might notice, and even then more down to personal preference than good or bad.
Mike

Thank you Mike.  You are one of the few on this forum who have actually seen me play and croak in person. 
When you comin' back?

[mikf]

Hi Don
I would love to come back and see you, but since I retired I have not been back to your area. Its quite a treck from Houston, but you never know.
I spend almost half the year outside the country now, and am in Scotland at the moment, until end September. Of course if you are ever in the Houston area during the winter months you must come and see me, we can play a little golf.
Mike

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Kaarlo,

.....I would like to know why you finally have decided to buy a Genos ?

.....Do you regret this decision ? 
.....What are your plans for the near future ?
......Is it your intention to sell your Genos and replace it ?

Dear Babette,
had a gig yesterday. I enclose a photo from the Tapiola Golf Club to avoid being told I do not have a Genos and that my playing is so bad I  am incompetent to evaluate  the best keyboard ever created      .   

1
The reasons I finally bought the Genos were very present: weight and size    Mi wife 79 and myself 84 were able to  put the Genos  leftt to right against the collapsed rear seat of my Range Rover (My T 5  could not be loaded that way)
The sound was (for me)   excellent as on T5, the drums IMHO better. 

2
Also the things I  strongly dislike were very present.  [/color]
Even with the shield you can see in the photo for me it was very difficult to see  the display due to being outside on a bright day.  (No direct sun on the screen) But I have been told  "stop complaining, only a fraction of of giggers play outside"  So I must be the great exception as I have for decades in summertime had many outdoors gigs.
3
The unfortunate   black color made the pollen in the air at this time of the year very visible,  it also made the temperature of the  case go to 38 C.  The metal finish T 5 never did that.  Before someone asks how I know let me just point out I have a  pro infrared  instant measurement device just as I have a pro dB meter. (Expensive items, not purchased for Genos but for my military remote controlled target projects)
4
As always there were errors in the registration banks.  The display shows what you programmed under each button, the Genos feels entitled to disregard what you see on its screen. I posted a lot about that but gave up as I was declared incompetent to critisize Genos.

5
I have no plans for the future. I will continue to gig with the Genos as long as people are willing to pay 500 € to our president's childrens relief fund for hearing me sing and play.  The reasonalbe assumption is it might soon all be over.

6
Even if the competition came out with a perfect replacement for the Genos I doubt I would want to learn a different system, and I beleive that is the case even with younger buyers of the Genos. And that is the reason why manufacturers can treat us the way they do, use us as guinea pigs with OS versions that do not function  (Genos 1.1), leave our mails unanswered - of course I am the only one    that has that experience  - and once they got our money  leave us out in the cold.   


Cheers

Kaarlo

[beykock]

Hello Kaarlo :

Thank you for your reply.

I want to present my deepest respect for your volunteer work. Wonderful and very noble !

I feel very sorry and sad to hear you are not happy with your present arranger keyboard.

Hopefully the next update ( June 28, 2019 ) will bring you the answer you are looking for ?
I am afraid it will never solve all your problems and frustrations though.

I understand you prefer to stay with Yamaha since you are used to Yamaha's system but why not go for another arranger if you are absolutely not pleased ?

You are a free man, it is your money and your life.
Nobody will blame you if you should decide to sell your present arranger keyboard and buy the one you like that offers you the features you want.

" The Yamaha system " is not so important.
The joy of playing an instrument must bring you a lot of fun and the happiness you deserve at your age, IMHO.

Take care !

Best regards, Babette

[Bachus]

Bachus,

In this message I have trIed to tell/explain there is a huge difference ( night and day ) between a commercial live performance ( in- and/or outdoor, in front of an audience ) and  playing ( alone ) at home where the sound situation is perfect without the presence of a critical audience and where mistakes are allowed and always can/will be corrected and/or repaired easily.

Babette

Lets reread your orriginal question...

For the time being it looks like the Genos has only one  competitor : the Korg PA4X.
A Korg PA5X is not expected soon after Korg have presented the PA4X update recently.

Wersi and Ketron seem not to be very active to introduce new arranger keyboards soon.
Is it their intention to launch new highend arrangers during the Musikmesse 2019 ?

Babette

So one needs to be a gigging musician to have an opinion on that question?

I think music making is all about what your ears tell you
And having owned both a pa4x and a Genos(one of the few here) i dare consider myself an expert on the differences between them..   its up to you, to weight my opinion.. i can't do that for you...


But asking non giggers not to answer a question or have an opinion on your orriginal question...thats a bit narrowminded, don't you agree?


And yes differen't players, different needs, thats clear to... different situation different needs, is also clear...  but when having a discusion about styles and the differences between the brands... i don't see how one needs to be a pro musician to have an opinion on that... 

[beykock]

Hi Bachus,

Thank you for your reply but I feel sorry to inform you I am not capable to answer your questions, remarks and/or comments. 😨

I am just a simple home player and love to learn a lot here ...
I am not an expert.

Babette

[travlin-easy]

Be nice, Bachus. From what I have read, Babette is not saying that non-pro gigging musicians cannot answer the questions - but instead, she is merely stating her opinion, which she has every right to state. Calling someone narrow-minded is insulting and will not be tolerated on this forum. There is no such thing as an expert - just people that claim to be experts. Granted, some have a bit more expertise than others in some fields of endeavor, but no one has all the answers - not even Yamaha, Korg, etc...

All the best,

Gary

[Bachus]

Be nice, Bachus. From what I have read, Babette is not saying that non-pro gigging musicians cannot answer the questions - but instead, she is merely stating her opinion, which she has every right to state. Calling someone narrow-minded is insulting and will not be tolerated on this forum. There is no such thing as an expert - just people that claim to be experts. Granted, some have a bit more expertise than others in some fields of endeavor, but no one has all the answers - not even Yamaha, Korg, etc...

All the best,

Gary

Sorry there...

But i am not saying she is narrow minded...
Just that a remark she made comes a cross a "bit" narrowminded..
Thats a world of difference where i come from..

One is an insult..
The other is part of open and honest modern communication..

But if there is an appology in place..
I will certainly appologize as i never meant to insult her.

[Bachus]

Back on topic...

The Genos is a near perfect arranger for me, nothing else comes close..
While it still lacks as a workstation...  thats where Korg is clearly ahead..

If that makes sense to anyone?

[beykock]

Apologies accepted, Bachus.🌟

Babette

[EileenL]

I agree about Genos Bachus, I am looking forward to the new update though as I think it will make some operations much easier.
 

[Yinon]

I couldn't hold myself and bought a Pa4X ....

Prices are going down in the US and I got a 76 key, new, for $2800.
Before I continue and before the good people on this forum start bashing me I will state immanently - I'm keeping my Genos too 

I have it for a week and here are the few things I notices Immediately.

Since this tread has over 70 replies and it is sometimes going sideways, I'm starting a new tread so folks can see focus on the differences between Genos and its biggest US challenger.

Cheers

[travlin-easy]

No one is going to bash you for purchasing a brand other than Yamaha.

Good luck,

Gary

[valimaties]

I agree about Genos Bachus, I am looking forward to the new update though as I think it will make some operations much easier.

A BIG word you said here, Eileen

That's what we look for when we all make/sing music, especially on gigs 

Best regards,
Vali

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

No one is going to bash you for purchasing a brand other than Yamaha.

Good luck,

Gary

Gary, you know I highly respect you which is why I always read your posts.  Maybe  Yinon is not going to be bashed, but might earn the honoray title of "Clown"    I found out the hard way what is actually clearly stated, on this site:  you should not write a competing keyboard is better than any YAMAHA model.  This is a YAMAHA site.   I never did compare as I did not have a non-YAMAHA keyboard, I only compared Genos with T 5 and as a standard answer got "Genos" is a completely different animal" which was not very helpful.   I have stopped  writing about IMHO severe problems with my Genos as it seems posters know I am the only one that has them; Let me stress that I have recieved valauble "how to get around" inherent not so good implementations which hopefully are being fixed in 1.4.  But to be honest, I still carry a residual grudge for having been told, Genos was faultless at 1.1. I had never been on a forum before and did not understand the "right or wrong my country" principle was applied.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Al Ram]

Hello Kaarlo :

" The Yamaha system " is not so important.

Best regards, Babette

Babette

I own a Yamaha Genos keyboard and I understand what Kaarlo is stating when he says that moving to another keyboard (ie. Korg) and learning a new non-Yamaha system seems to be a challenging task.    I am in the same situation.

I am not trying to put words in Kaarlo's mouth, just saying that i understand and relate to his statement. 

I believe Kaarlo stated that he gigs for public.  When you do that and have hundreds of songs/registrations already set up in your keyboard (in this case Genos) it is very challenging moving to another keyboard.  In some cases even from Yamaha to Yamaha.

Because you already have everything setup and ready to go for your gigs.   In my case, in addition to hundreds of registrations already setup, I also have hundreds of PDF's already linked from iPad to Genos.    Some people have external multipads, midis, voices,  etc.   In some cases people have additional hardware already working with the current keyboard.

This means you already have a system setup and when you perform a song, you bring everything up very very quickly: PDF, registrations, key, tempo, style, volume, VH, etc. in a matter of seconds you are ready to perform from one song to another.    At home this is not that important, but when gigging in public This is critical.

Moving all of that setup system and linking it to another keyboard say Korg (or sometimes even another Yamaha keyboard) can be a tremendous amount of time and effort and in some cases bottom line money.   You have to do all of this moving effort and more importantly TEST all of it and everything, every little piece of your system before you can go public with another keyboard.

So, i understand the statement feels like you are tied to a given system and In a way that is the case.  (for some of us anyway)

When i moved from T5 to Genos it was somewhat easier because it is the same family but still had to do a lot of work.  I can just imagine moving to another brand. 

I know you meant well and was actually trying to encourage Kaarlo . . .. . . So, I am not debating or disqualifying just trying to explain why sometimes it is not so easy to move to another system or keyboard/brand. 

I think Korg is an excellent keyboard in some areas better than Yamaha. In some other areas Yamaha is better. 

I have thought about buying a Korg many times. Personally i like Korg a lot and specially their Latin styles which i play quite a bit.    I actually have lots of Korg styles on my Genos they are superb.   But when I realize all the work involved in migrating to Korg I just keep on the Yamaha 'system'.   I am not loyal to a brand, but to a performance system.

On the other hand, for some people might be easier or just about the same playing one brand keyboard or another brand because they do not rely on a setup system. They rely solely on their playing skills.  Skills so high that can easily transfer from one keyboard to another no matter what the brand.   I admire that.

So, i guess is all in what each person relies on.

Thanks and have a great day.

[beykock]

Hi Al Ram :

You are absolutely right.
Probably my conclusion came too fast.
Sorry ! 😧

Best regards, Babette

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlo, the person that posted that about you was reprimanded for his post, and if I recall, the same person was later banned. The moderators on this site do not and will not tolerate that kind of bashing of other members. This is probably why this site is among the top Yamaha arranger keyboard sites on the entire internet.

PS: I have a white tuxedo that I wore for many formal parties I performed during the hot summer months. Guess I was one of those clowns in a white suit also.

All the best,

Gary