Vocal Harmonizer

[elad770]

I'm on the verge of deciding if I should by vocal Processor. HOWEVER!

I really think i didn't maximize the true potential of the Harmonizer on the Genos. I think that part of my frustration is the ability to find prop[er settings

Can someone please share his thoughts about this?

Can someone please link some resources for Different vocal settings? Like harmony files that were set up and saved?

For example, This company did a good job of creating proper settings:

https://soundwonderland.de/pages/de/shop/vocal.php

But they charge 70 Euro for .......Wait for it.....3.....2.....1.....   REGISTRATION FILES? are they for real?

Either way, I'm sure plenty of people have Hundreds of registration files with vocal settings for Genos.

Or may i'm wrong?  Please share links if possible

Thanks

[EileenL]

You need to experiment and edit the settings until you find the one that suits you.

[elad770]

But I'm Lazy !!! 

I was hoping people already have some registration files with Harmonic effects already set up

[DerekA]

You're in luck!

SoundWonderland charge 70 Euro to help lazy people just like you

[DrakeM]

And those settings won't be perfect for you either. 

You have a different voice range and different microphone. You just have to fiddle with it. I have a PSR-S950 and I have the VH working perfectly fine. I have a set up for backup singing with a single male, a single woman, 2 women, the Jordanairs, June Carter Cash, A cappella and with 24 percent reverb, 40 percent reverb and 50 percent reverb. These I use a lot but there are even more set up.

My advice is to first just get one voice matched up to yours. Get the balance of the two voice set up. You should be just slightly above the harmony voice. Then set up the reverb (17 percent should be perfect for starters.)

Regards
Drake

[DrakeM]

Here is a couple links that helped me understand what is going on with the VH:

Part ONE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-2NCQRbhA

Part TWO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Zp2UyNxMk

Regards
Drake

[Toril S]

Hello Elad. To buy a separate unit when you have a harmonizer on the keyboard, that is overkill. You will still have to fiddle with that unit to find the right settings, and there is one extra item to lug around. But I see some people have it. Me, I don't need more buttons, I have buttons for a lifetime here with three keyboards

[mikf]

Even with an external unit you would probably still have to fiddle around to get it set to your liking. Some of the external units calculate harmony based on harmony algorithms rather than what chords are actually being played.
Mike

[elad770]

Ok, you convinced me to wait with any extra stuff.
I will try to be satisfied with what I have for now.
I'm going to "fiddle on the roof "

[elad770]

Can I ask what micrphone are you all using?

[Mike W]

Here is a couple links that helped me understand what is going on with the VH:

Part ONE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-2NCQRbhA

Part TWO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Zp2UyNxMk

Regards
Drake


Thanks Drake. I've never seen these videos before. Very helpful and thanks for taking the time to post them!

Mike

[beykock]

 Hi,

Had an external vocalizer in the past and sold it.
VH2 offers everything ( even much more ! ) one needs.🐸

Babette

[soryt]

I have some of the VH presets bought at Soundwonderland,
The files loading with the registrations  , they work fine   
I have used them in the T5 , they are very nice made  . But if you cant sing it doesnt help :-)

Soryt 

[DrakeM]

I use a corded headset mic along with a 4 foot extension cable.

SHURE WH20QTR ... sells for $80.00 (USD)

I found that there was no way I could use a Mic placed in a boom stand as I am always moving my head around looking for buttons on the keyboard that needed to be engaged. Like turning the backup singer on and off, switching to the next MAIN part of the style, let alone playing the actual keys. A headset mic is the way to go if you are planning to sing and play the keyboard as a solo act. 

Regards
Drake

[Toril S]

I am beginning to realize that, Drake! Is it a dynamic mic, or are you using a mixer with phantom power?

[DrakeM]

Hi Toril,

Regarding my Head Mic setup, I don't use anything else with it. I plug the 1/4" plug directly into the keyboard at the: Mic/Line In

Then to the left to that connection is the: Input Volume (knob) which I have turn to the MAX position.

Then to the left of that knob is the: MIC//LINE (switch) which is flipped to MIC setting.

 

[elad770]

Guys, You are so helpful! Thank you

Drak, I can not agree with you more. I can't use Mic with stands in any setting. it's simply annoying and distracting. I'm also very expressive when my terrible voice leaves my mouth! and i need it to stay exactly where my mouth is.

I'm using a very Budget Mic and would like to upgrade this coming weekend. (I think this also effect the Harmony voices sounds not so great) Can you please help me with the following question?

I would like to purchase this model:

https://www.amazon.com/Shure-SM35-TQG-Performance-Microphone-Windscreen/dp/B00IVPG0SW?creativeASIN=B00IVPFZAG&linkCode=w61&imprToken=WAPGnRDZdamVpjXZQnktwg&slotNum=4&tag=musicoomph-20&th=1

The Wired version cost 150 because it has a Preamp along with it.

My question is if the Genos Have a Preamp (I suspect it has because of the Gain feature but i'm not sure) ? Or i need to buy this piece as well?

Are you using a preamp?

Is it necessary for Genos?

Thanks a million

[willem7397]

I have some of the VH presets bought at Soundwonderland, but i cant load them in the Genos . ( maybe there is a trick ??)
I have used them in the T5 , they are very nice made  . But if you cant sing it doesnt help :-)

Soryt 

I also did purchase a Soundwonderland VHpreset for T5 which was good. I think if you saved it as registration you can transfer to Genos.

[MarkF_48]

Guys, You are so helpful! Thank you

Drak, I can not agree with you more. I can't use Mic with stands in any setting. it's simply annoying and distracting. I'm also very expressive when my terrible voice leaves my mouth! and i need it to stay exactly where my mouth is.

I'm using a very Budget Mic and would like to upgrade this coming weekend. (I think this also effect the Harmony voices sounds not so great) Can you please help me with the following question?

I would like to purchase this model:

https://www.amazon.com/Shure-SM35-TQG-Performance-Microphone-Windscreen/dp/B00IVPG0SW?creativeASIN=B00IVPFZAG&linkCode=w61&imprToken=WAPGnRDZdamVpjXZQnktwg&slotNum=4&tag=musicoomph-20&th=1

The Wired version cost 150 because it has a Preamp along with it.

My question is if the Genos Have a Preamp (I suspect it has because of the Gain feature but i'm not sure) ? Or i need to buy this piece as well?

Are you using a preamp?

Is it necessary for Genos?

Thanks a million

The microphone you linked is a condenser mic which is primarily intended for use with a wireless transmitter. The 'preamp' shown on the Amazon page enables the mic to be connected to a device to an XLR jack that provides phantom power to power the preamp and the preamp also provides a bias voltage to the microphone to power it. It would not be feasible to use the mic without the preamp supplied as shown on the Amazon page.

[DrakeM]

I will have to agree with Mark's knowledge about the microphone. I don't know enough to recommend anything other than what I'm using and that it works perfect for me.

I purchased the mic I use from one of our members many, many years ago.

[Tyros5Mad]

In general, vocals are very hard to get just right no matter what hardware (or software) you have. Vocal harmony is even harder and the bad news is, as others have said, there is no easy way to do it. Trust me I am a vocalist and I find it is easier to do vocals live because there is no expectation from yourself or the audience that it will be perfect.

In the studio on the other hand it is extraordinarily difficult because you want to get as close to perfection as possible. It is not possible of course, nothing can ever be perfect, because there are so many variables: your voice timbre, the mic you use, the settings on your harmoniser (if you use one) etc.

Here is a list of what I have in search of the holy grail of vocals. None are even close to perfect.

• I have the Genos with its built in harmoniser - not bad but needs a lot of tweaking to be reasonable.
  
• I have a TC Helicon Perform VK - IMO the best choice for reasonable vocal processing in the studio or live. Easy to set up and easy to use. But, if you want out of the ordinary sound, you need to experiment with different effects. To this end I purchased a third party software program to manage the effects on the VK. It's called the Perform VK editor and it works very well but you cannot use it for live changes - too hard. You will need to set up and save your effects and load as needed. The VK has 3 presets and another 3 that can be called up via a "hit" button. 6 presets should be more than enough for a single song.
  
• 
  Recentlly I purchased the Roland VT-4 voice transformer. This is a fun piece of gear and works very well in live situations. I am still experimenting with the harmony features and have not yet found the best settings for good sounding vocals. The VK is definitely better.
  
• 
  I also have 3 microphones - a studio quality Rode NT1-A, a Shure headset mic and an Audio Technica ATR2100 (USB and XLR compatible). For live play I use the Shure mic or the AT mic on a mic stand. I use the Rode mic exclusively in the studio (I am talking about my home studio here).
  
• 
  Lastly we come to software. I have Cakewalk by Bandlab and Audacity with some great vocal plugins (Graillon2, KeroVee and my favourite Quadravox). One can literally spend thousands of dollars on these types of plugins - do not do this - disappointment is guaranteed because, unless you are a sound engineer, the investment is too much.
  

Sorry for the long post but I am always very interested in the topic of vocals.

Regards, Richard

[MarkF_48]

I use a corded headset mic along with a 4 foot extension cable.

SHURE WH20QTR ... sells for $80.00 (USD)

I found that there was no way I could use a Mic placed in a boom stand as I am always moving my head around looking for buttons on the keyboard that needed to be engaged. Like turning the backup singer on and off, switching to the next MAIN part of the style, let alone playing the actual keys. A headset mic is the way to go if you are planning to sing and play the keyboard as a solo act. 

Regards
Drake

I picked up a WH20 a few years ago. Haven't used it a lot, but do know it needs a heap of gain from whatever it's plugged into, which is reflected in you comment about setting the  input volume setting to 'MAX' on the keyboard. Otherwise a decent sounding mic for the price.

[soryt]

I also did purchase a Soundwonderland VHpreset for T5 which was good. I think if you saved it as registration you can transfer to Genos.

Yes , youre right , i forget it  ,. Thanks   

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi,

Had an external vocalizer in the past and sold it.
VH2 offers everything ( even much more ! ) one needs.🐸

Babette

I agree. I have had about every vocalizer ever put on the market and the one in the Genos is in deed on par with units in the 700$ range. I feel it is slightly better than on the Tyros 5. And of course I did not have to build in a phantom power supply unit like I had on the Tyros 1 to 5.  Dynamic mics are good, but they are rather heavy on a long boom.  But to adjust any vocal harmony unit to your voice and way of singing is a very steep learning curve.  And in case you feel you need the pitch correction it is nearly impossible to get a good result.
The Digitech Vocalist Live Pro is the best unit in my opinion. It is out of production but still available on e-bay for about half that price. Mine has been in use for about 10 years and has never let me down, which the Helicon Voice Plus has done many times and the latest models all have a problem recognizing quick chord changes. No Yamaha ever had any problem.

I have not sold it because I still use it in my set up. One mic goes to the Genos and one to the Digitech.
Why ?  In that way you can make the singers far more realistic by choosing different vocal harmonies on the units and moving your mouth from one mic to the other.  My vocalist uses my Roland V 7 hich contrary to the rack mount units you can easily handle  while you sing as you can fix it to her mic stand. 
Again like with drums and keyboard sound in general I am sure the audience will not realize this, it is for me.  Many in the audience cannot hear the difference between one, two, three, four and five part harmonies anyway,  leave alone those who cannot distinguish between minor or major and start dancing a waltz on beat 2 or  3. 
But they seem to hear the difference between a solo voice and one with harmonies as they often come and say: 'gee you have a nice voice' when I use harmonizing, which icidentally never happens when I do not use harmonizing.   

Cheers

Kaarlo

[stephenm52]

I will have to agree with Mark's knowledge about the microphone. I don't know enough to recommend anything other than what I'm using and that it works perfect for me.

I purchased the mic I use from one of our members many, many years ago.

[elad770]

Since My thread came up again I just wanted to say that the VH2 is Extremely Powerful IF! you are using the complimentary high-quality products such as the Mic
I upgraded the Mic and it sounds amazing!

So... How's the VH2 compared to TC Helicon? Well... I will surprise you by saying that I truly think they are doing the same thing! and you will not hear the difference

the reason why TC Helicon voice process sounds so good is that they are pre-programmed: In other words, as opposed to the Genos where the VH2 comes pretty Raw when it comes to specific songs, the TC Helicon comes with Hundreds of presents. Someone already sat down and tweaked the different parameters to sound like popular effect we know and hear, that includes specific songs and genres. The VH2 has Harmony presets but the actual settings are untouched (or Flat). The VH2 possibilities are endless and if you play with it a little bit you can Uncover its true potential.

I think what will be amazing if there will be Song presets (the way TC helicon do ) Which is a library of songs that will change VH2 to match the style of songs. It only requires time and effort and no special hardware. Maybe some of us already saved some amazing VH2 presets!