Genos and modx

[Bachus]

Anyone else having both these instruments in their setup?

I been thinking quite some time about which instrument to buy as the lower 88 key instrument in my setup.  And yesterday i suddenly realized that my modx 6 offered everything i would ever need..

Great sounds, great piano's, an incredible versatile synth engine, enough controll, a very accessible intuitive interface, all the Yamaha arps and features and much much more... and so i decided to buy a used modx 8 in mint condition.. 

The whole plan is simple..
The first 8 channels on modx are for the modx performance
The channels 9-12 will be used as stacked voices for the Genos right and left hand..
And channel 15 send will be used for sending chord information to genos

I am all converted to the datk side now.... altough, i think the bright side fits Yamaha much better


Anyone else enjoying their Genos combined with a modx or montage?

[pjd]

Hi Bachus --

I'm playing both MODX6 and Genos, but have not integrated the two. The MODX6 goes out to the church gig while the Genos generally stays home.

I did try driving the MODX6 CFX and EPs from Genos. The FSX action is more satisfying for piano than the light-weight MODX key bed. You've probably seen this post already, but I thought that others might need the link:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-piano-voice-programming/

I was able to use the default MIDI settings to play 3 of the 4 parts in the multi-part MODX CFX grand. Part 4 handles key off and I didn't feel like I was missing anything. The multi-part CFX grand has more nuance than the Genos CFX (probably single part, 8 elements).

All the best -- pj

[Bachus]

Hi Bachus --

I'm playing both MODX6 and Genos, but have not integrated the two. The MODX6 goes out to the church gig while the Genos generally stays home.

I did try driving the MODX6 CFX and EPs from Genos. The FSX action is more satisfying for piano than the light-weight MODX key bed. You've probably seen this post already, but I thought that others might need the link:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-piano-voice-programming/

I was able to use the default MIDI settings to play 3 of the 4 parts in the multi-part MODX CFX grand. Part 4 handles key off and I didn't feel like I was missing anything. The multi-part CFX grand has more nuance than the Genos CFX (probably single part, 8 elements).

All the best -- pj

This is exactly the reason i switched from the modx 6 to 8.
The 6 is okay for playing synth sounds..

The 8 should be just fine for playing piano and dp..
As well as pretty much everything else..

For solo synths, with after touch, there is the Genos keyboard..

The price difference was just to huge with a montage, with everything the modx offers..

In the end, i have said this before, both instruments in a single keyboard would be near to perfect for me...

[Sergey Kadyrov]

This is exactly the reason i switched from the modx 6 to 8.

As I remember, you were using the MODX as a travel keyboard as well. I guess you will think of something to fill this gap as well.

[Del]

That will be a great set up Bachus although I have a T5 I have been looking at the MODX7, but it will not happen just yet and if it does I would have to change my keyboard stand.

[Bachus]

As I remember, you were using the MODX as a travel keyboard as well. I guess you will think of something to fill this gap as well.

Yes, still have a go-piano.. (the orriginal 61 key)
Works great too with an ipad..

[Togge]

Does the MODX have a registration memory similar to the Yamaha keyboards so you save a few registrations into a bank. Then call upp this registration on the MODX and the call the registrations form the Genos registration buttons via midi?
If MODX doesn't have the normal registration memory how is different setups handled (if it's possible to describe in a short way)?

[pjd]

In short, MODX has a much different user interface than Genos. It is a synthesizer, not an arranger.

There are two primary ways of storing performance information in MODX: Performances and Live Set. A Performance holds voice programming information and consists of 1 to 16 Parts. Each MODX Part is very roughly equivalent to a PSR/Genos voice. A Performance holds a lot of other information about control routing, scenes, arpeggios, etc.

Live Set is a way to organize Performances into groups. A Live Set has 1 or more pages, where each page is a 4 by 4 matrix of Performance buttons. Each button refers to a Performance (i.e., it is a "link"). Thus, you can edit a Performance and all references to the Performance will see the change.

Performances can be selected by MIDI.

Hope this helps. If you're really interested, you might want to check out the MODX Owner's Manual.

-- pj

[jugge]

Hi,

For those of you who own and use both the Genos and the MODX/Montage. How does the sound quality compare between them?

I really like my Genos, but I found myself not use styles so much anymore. Instead I often create the songs from scratch with Cubase and the MODX seeams to have a really good DAW integration, especially  with the MODX connect application.

Also, my space are quite limited and a smaller keyboard would fit better om my desk.

However, sound quality is the most important thing for me and I really enjoy the instrument sounds Genos can produce.

So how does the instrument samples compare between the two? I am especially interested in the guitar sounds, both acoustic and electric. 

I will probably try to check the MODX out in a store, but it would be nice to here the opinions from those who have experience with both.

Thanks
/Jugge

[svpworld]

I have both the Genos and MODX 6, in fact apart from my Roland Integra 7 I sold my other keyboards and just kept these as they cover everything I need (with a few plugins as well on Logic Pro X).  In terms of comparison, they both have superb sound quality.  The Genos is my main board, just love the keybed and ease of use.  I like to record covers of songs and finding staple instruments is just a pleasure on the Genos. The big touch screen, ease of layering voices, the sliders and OLED display, and the categorisation of sounds just makes it a pleasure to work with.  In terms of sounds, the Genos excels in the acoustic guitar department over the MODX although you do get a bigger variety of variations on a theme with the MODX (and of course you can dive a lot deeper into the editing of the voice, DSP effects and so on.  You can also layer more sounds with the MODX in a 'live' performance.  The Genos has a few sounds which you don't get on the MODX including the Yamaha C7 grand, Kino strings, the super articulation instruments, acoustic stringed guitars including resonator, ukulele, steel strum, certain synth patches and pads, revo drums and probably a lot more.  However the MODX excels in exotic synth textures, moving synth sounds with arpegiators, layered effects and so on. The MODX also has a bigger variety of string sections and ensembles, combinations of synth and real sounds, a good variety of electric guitars (different to those on Genos).  Genos has a bigger variety of electronic and electric organs, whilst MODX has of course REAL FM sounds and can load classic DX patches.  Whilst the DX sounds on the Genos (including the great optional sound packs from Easysounds) are really nice and sound great, you can't beat the expression, dynamics and playability of the MODX real FM sounds.  Both Genos and MODX can load new sounds and samples.  I have a large collection of patches for both, the MODX offering the Bossendorfer pianos and some great analog patches although EasySounds also offer most of these for Genos now.
I find the Genos a great tool for building the framework or skeleton of a track, using the styles and it's onboard sequencer.  I use Logic Pro X as my DAW and trying to set up the voice changes and sys ex commands for Genos is a bit of a nightmare, so I tend to record a skeleton with the sounds I want on the Genos sequencer and then import it into Logic.  Recently I'm recording directly as audio though for individual sounds using the SPDIF digital audio output.  I also love the joystick on the Genos, although for more expressive modulation control the traditional wheels of the MODX are better.
Before owning the MODX I had the Montage and prior to that a Yamaha Motif.  I've always had a soft spot for Yamaha's acoustic and real instrument sounds, and I sold my Montage to get the Genos.  However with the attractive price of the MODX and the fact it basically does everything the Montage does (in terms of sound quality and compatible patches) I just had to get the MODX6. It's an incredibly light keyboard which makes it great just to take into the lounge or even for performances elsewhere.  My intention originally was to take the Genos to our church for performing, but even after a couple of years I'm still reluctant to take it out the house and don't have a case for it.  I'm actually still using my Yamaha PSR-S950 for church which still sounds great.
So in terms of using the Genos and MODX together, they do share a lot of common ground in terms of the Yamaha voice setup.  The MODX will give you more choice of piano sounds, and of course with its layering of voices enables a bit more realism than Genos, although I love the CFX and C7 pianos of the genos and the keyboard bed. You also don't get aftertouch on the MODX keybed, but it responds just fine over midi from the Genos keyboard. The live set feature of the MODX and its touch sensitive display also make it a relatively easy board to use, although the screen is considerably smaller than that of the genos and requires a slightly more nimble finger to use!
Hope that helps, I think both keyboards are unique in what they do and both have merits and drawbacks.  Together though you shouldn't be wanting much more in the way of great sounds and variety of instruments. 

Kind regards
Simon

[DerekA]

I would have loved a MODX on top of the Genos but I can't really justify the price of the board plus a double stand.

In the end I bought a Reface DX and hooked it up through MIDI / Aux In. So at least I have a real 4-op FM synth to play with.

[jugge]

I have both the Genos and MODX 6, in fact apart from my Roland Integra 7 I sold my other keyboards and just kept these as they cover everything I need (with a few plugins as well on Logic Pro X).  In terms of comparison, they both have superb sound quality.  The Genos is my main board, just love the keybed and ease of use.  I like to record covers of songs and finding staple instruments is just a pleasure on the Genos. The big touch screen, ease of layering voices, the sliders and OLED display, and the categorisation of sounds just makes it a pleasure to work with.  In terms of sounds, the Genos excels in the acoustic guitar department over the MODX although you do get a bigger variety of variations on a theme with the MODX (and of course you can dive a lot deeper into the editing of the voice, DSP effects and so on.  You can also layer more sounds with the MODX in a 'live' performance.  The Genos has a few sounds which you don't get on the MODX including the Yamaha C7 grand, Kino strings, the super articulation instruments, acoustic stringed guitars including resonator, ukulele, steel strum, certain synth patches and pads, revo drums and probably a lot more.  However the MODX excels in exotic synth textures, moving synth sounds with arpegiators, layered effects and so on. The MODX also has a bigger variety of string sections and ensembles, combinations of synth and real sounds, a good variety of electric guitars (different to those on Genos).  Genos has a bigger variety of electronic and electric organs, whilst MODX has of course REAL FM sounds and can load Classic DX patches.  Whilst the DX sounds on the Genos (including the great optional sound packs from Easysounds) are really nice and sound great, you can't beat the expression, dynamics and playability of the MODX real FM sounds.  Both Genos and MODX can load new sounds and samples.  I have a large collection of patches for both, the MODX offering the Bossendorfer pianos and some great analog patches although EasySounds also offer most of these for Genos now.
I find the Genos a great tool for building the framework or skeleton of a track, using the styles and it's onboard sequencer.  I use Logic Pro X as my DAW and trying to set up the voice changes and sys ex commands for Genos is a bit of a nightmare, so I tend to record a skeleton with the sounds I want on the Genos sequencer and then import it into Logic.  Recently I'm recording directly as audio though for individual sounds using the SPDIF digital audio output.  I also love the joystick on the Genos, although for more expressive modulation control the traditional wheels of the MODX are better.
Before owning the MODX I had the Montage and prior to that a Yamaha Motif.  I've always had a soft spot for Yamaha's acoustic and real instrument sounds, and I sold my Montage to get the Genos.  However with the attractive price of the MODX and the fact it basically does everything the Montage does (in terms of sound quality and compatible patches) I just had to get the MODX6. It's an incredibly light keyboard which makes it great just to take into the lounge or even for performances elsewhere.  My intention originally was to take the Genos to our church for performing, but even after a couple of years I'm still reluctant to take it out the house and don't have a case for it.  I'm actually still using my Yamaha PSR-S950 for church which still sounds great.
So in terms of using the Genos and MODX together, they do share a lot of common ground in terms of the Yamaha voice setup.  The MODX will give you more choice of piano sounds, and of course with its layering of voices enables a bit more realism than Genos, although I love the CFX and C7 pianos of the genos and the keyboard bed. You also don't get aftertouch on the MODX keybed, but it responds just fine over midi from the Genos keyboard. The live set feature of the MODX and its touch sensitive display also make it a relatively easy board to use, although the screen is considerably smaller than that of the genos and requires a slightly more nimble finger to use!
Hope that helps, I think both keyboards are unique in what they do and both have merits and drawbacks.  Together though you shouldn't be wanting much more in the way of great sounds and variety of instruments. 

Kind regards
Simon

Thanks a lot for your thoughts, Simon. I appreciate it a lot.  I have always been very happy with Yamaha keyboards over the years and If I had the space, I would love to have both of them but for now it's not possible. Anyway, I will most likely keep  Genos after all. I really enjoy playing it and I think it sounds fantastic. I'm sure I would regret it if I got rid of it.

Best regards
/Jugge

[Drsun19]

I have a Montage and a Genos and i really love them!! The Genos is below the Montage whenever i play at home but considering they are expensive i don't want to take them out home, if i have a gig i use a Korg Krome.

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi,
For those of you who own and use both the Genos and the MODX/Montage. How does the sound quality compare between them?
I really like my Genos, but I found myself not using styles so much anymore. Instead, I often create the songs from scratch with Cubase and the MODX seems to have a really good DAW integration, especially with the MODX connect application.
Also, my space is quite limited and a smaller keyboard would fit better on my desk.
However, sound quality is the most important thing for me and I really enjoy the instrument sounds Genos can produce.
So how do the instrument samples compare between the two? I am especially interested in the guitar sounds, both acoustic and electric.
I will probably try to check the MODX out in a store, but it would be nice to hear the opinions from those who have experience with both.
Thanks
/Jugge

Jugge, during this Covid crisis, I have been pushed off the live stage and back into my studio. I have always wanted to get back into recording and now is a perfect time. Over the past six weeks, I have discovered that the Genos voices are excellent for live gigs or playing at home but leave a lot to be desired for recording. The MODx and Montage share the same sound engine as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong). These two keyboards have far better sound samples for recording than the Genos only because Yamaha devotes more memory to the internal samples than the Genos. Even better than the Montage and Genos is dedicated VST instruments. I signed up with East West instruments and their sound libraries are stellar in comparison to any keyboard I've heard.

If you're serious about recording, forget any keyboard voices and opt for VST sample libraries. As good as Montage and Genos are, they don't compete with VST instruments.

[iulistil2]

Hello, I also wanted to combine a Genos with MODX at some point but I changed my mind .... I will reflect on my decision further.

[Del]

I'm on the cusp of getting a MODX7 to go with my T5 then maybe later on upgrade the T5 for a Genos, I have already changed my LS7 keyboard stand to a duel keyboard stand ready for the second keyboard whatever it may be. I have to go to a dealership and try the MODX out and see if it is that I really want, at the moment with the coronavirus trialing the MODX is not going to happen.
I may look into VST'S but I do not know enough about how to get those sounds to the keyboard, have to go away after this post and investigate further. I did look at East West instruments and as Lee said their sounds are stella, I listened to quite a few of their packages and I must agree the Choir pack really got my attention, the pricing is expensive but excellence never comes cheap, worth a visit to their site just to hear and see how they get the sounds.
If I get the MODX7 I need to know what cables I need from the MODX to the T5 so the sound comes through the T5 speakers and what sockets the cable plug into

[Lee Batchelor]

I may look into VST'S but I do not know enough about how to get those sounds to the keyboard, have to go away after this post, and investigate further.

I can walk you through that procedure when the time comes, Del. It's actually far easier than using the Genos or T5 with a DAW.

[pjd]

Hi --

Haven't posted much lately because I've been using Genos to record a few demo tunes for our church group. Got tired of writing about playing and just decided to play.

I don't have any complaints about the Genos sound, other than the B-3 being too polite. I recorded MODX B-3 through an EH Lester K into the Genos MIC input. The Yamaha rotary simulation is too polite. 

Yep, the MODX and Montage have the same sound engine modulo less FM polyphony. The basic waveforms between MODX/Montage and Genos are the same with the exception of the Super Articulation 2 samples. The two instruments are "voiced" quite differently (two different sets of sound designers with two different goals). The MODX/Montage architecture supports two insert effects per part. So, there are some differences that affect the overall sound of each instrument. One instrument may be more appropriate than another for a given tune or musical genre.

Hey, hey, stay healthy -- pj

[Joe H]

... The two instruments are "voiced" quite differently (two different sets of sound designers with two different goals) ...

I think it's the basic difference between a sample-based synth and the arranger.  When I was first starting to create a custom Voice pack from the Proteus Extreme Lead (XL-1) ROM in the form of a SF2 file; I realized that the waves at the Element Level in the arranger are set (programmed) for the limited editing via the XG channel sound controllers (continuous controllers). It's also important to set the COMMON parameters in YEM (Voice Set) to be compatible with the R1, R2, R3 and Left Preset Voices (Volume, Filters, Amplitude Envelope, DSP Depth, etc).

The XG spec allows people who don't really care to go into deep Voice editing to create variations of a sound with relative ease. Personally; I think that was a smart marketing strategy on Yamaha's part.

BTW... the sound controllers are supported on the Motif and I assume the Montage and MODX as well.

Joe H

[anotherscott]

Anyone else having both these instruments in their setup?

I am considering the possibility of a Genos as part of a 2-board gigging setup. But even though there's a lot I like about the MODX, the Yamaha I'm thinking of pairing the Genos with is a YC73. Its biggest strengths--piano, rhodes, drawbar organ--pretty much exactly correspond with the Genos' notable sonic weaknesses IMO.

I can also see the appeal of the MODX, particularly the MODX7 Del B mentioned... it still offers a lot that the Genos does not, and is super lightweight. Another possibility along the same lightweight line which I'm also thinking about for a pairing is the Kurzweil PC4-7, which I think I'd prefer over the MODX7 from that piano/Rhodes/organ perspective.

But I'm curious about this...

The whole plan is simple..
The first 8 channels on modx are for the modx performance
The channels 9-12 will be used as stacked voices for the Genos right and left hand..

Since MODX parts 9-12 must receive on MIDI channels 9-12, how are you setting this up. Are you changing the default Genos MIDI transmit channels for R1, R2, R3, L from the channel 1-4 default to channel 9-12? And then setting up your MODX Performances so parts 9-12 are empty when you don't want the Genos triggering them, and setting up your Genos Registrations to have no/silent sounds in R1, R2, R3, and L when you want them to trigger MODX sounds? Would you be using the MODX to select the Genos registration, or the Genos to select the MODX Performance, or would you manually select the Genos Registration and MODX Performances individually as needed? Or am I misunderstanding the entire approach?

Although I am really curious about that, if my additional keyboard were the YC73, the approach would have to be slightly different. The only YC73 sound I'd specifically want to play from the Genos would be its organ (to play them from an unweighted rather than weighted action). The YC does permit an external board to trigger just its organ sound, even though normally all of its sounds are on the same MIDI channel. But there would still have to be some way to manage when you would and would not want the Genos to be playing the YC organ sound, either by itself or in conjunction with some Genos sound, perhaps as part of a split. But that's another topic. ;-)

Some of that is also related to my post in reply #41 at https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,44663.msg485201.html#msg485201 - similarly...

I may look into VST'S but I do not know enough about how to get those sounds to the keyboard, have to go away after this post and investigate further.

I can walk you through that procedure when the time comes, Del. It's actually far easier than using the Genos or T5 with a DAW.

I'm actually quite curious about this as well, as it would seem to be fundamentally the same question as what I was asking about in that other thread, about using the Genos to trigger iPad sounds, which, from a configuration perspective, would seem to be the same as using it to trigger VSTs.