So many bugs !!!!

[stkeys]

Let me start off by saying I've owned the Tyros, Tyros 3,4 and 5 and never had any problems but I'm experiencing a lot of problems with this new Genos.
Almost every time I sit down to play it acts up in one way or another and freezes up.

There have been some day's when it works as it should with no freezing.

I updated the OS as soon as I received it hoping any earlier bugs would have been fixed by now but that's not the case for me.

Has anyone else experienced any problems such as styles locking up, screen freezing, while playing their Genos ?
Sometimes I've not even been able to turn it off, I've had to resort to unplugging it. 

[Murat]

Hello, I have my Genos for around 1 month now, being a competent player I have never had a single bug issue with the Genos. I wonder if you have a fault with your instrument? Do you think you could exchange it?

[Bachus]

Let me start off by saying I've owned the Tyros, Tyros 3,4 and 5 and never had any problems but I'm experiencing a lot of problems with this new Genos.
Almost every time I sit down to play it acts up in one way or another and freezes up.

There have been some day's when it works as it should with no freezing.

I updated the OS as soon as I received it hoping any earlier bugs would have been fixed by now but that's not the case for me.

Has anyone else experienced any problems such as styles locking up, screen freezing, while playing their Genos ?
Sometimes I've not even been able to turn it off, I've had to resort to unplugging it. 

The OS is pretty much bug free..

Are you at the latest OS version..
Did you do a full reset after upgrading?

Seems like hardware issues
Send it back for warranty?

[Fred Smith]

I've had my Genos for over a year, and haven't had any of the problems you list.

Either you have midi files which Genos disagrees with, or you have a warranty issue.

Fred

[stkeys]

Thanks for your replies, I've just spent 20 mins or so playing without any issues but the fact it's not reliable makes me glad I'm not relying on it for giggin.

I did install a couple of packs from Easysounds using the YEM software to combine them and save some user Registrations but other than that I can't think of anything that would be causing the intermittent problems.

I've tried to replicate the issues by playing the same styles and user registrations that I was using at the time of the freeze this morning but couldn't replicate it. It's very strange.

The thing is, I was using a preset style at the time of the freeze so I can't see it being any of the new stuff I've loaded.

Looks like I need to contact Yamaha tech support as it's only a couple of months old.

[edtek]

Don't know if it applies to your case but I have found most of my problems have been due to using others registrations which change my setups in unforeseen ways.  I resolve now never to use foreign regs.  If I like them I might create a reg but key in the voices, styles etc myself using my standard reg as a basis.

I don't use midis but they can have commands that modify your keyboard setup also.  If you use foreign midis, I don't know how you can protect against this except to examine every sysop command in the file for undesired changes, a pretty laborious process I'm sure.

[stkeys]

Don't know if it applies to your case but I have found most of my problems have been due to using others registrations which change my setups in unforeseen ways.  I resolve now never to use foreign regs.  If I like them I might create a reg but key in the voices, styles etc myself using my standard reg as a basis.

I don't use midis but they can have commands that modify your keyboard setup also.  If you use foreign midis, I don't know how you can protect against this except to examine every sysop command in the file for undesired changes, a pretty laborious process I'm sure.

I don't use Midi files and I'm only using Regs I have created myself, thanks for your input.

[Al Ram]

OS is up to date .. .  right ?

have your considered factory reset ?

thanks

[pjd]

I don't use Midi files and I'm only using Regs I have created myself, thanks for your input.

Hi stkeys --

Hmmm, in that case, there may be an intermittent hardware issue that is causing the unreliability. Have you given Yamaha support a call? These kinds of intermittent problems are devilish, but if your Genos is unstable, a tech needs to take a look at it.

Hopefully, it's just a matter of reseating a connector. Stuff does happen in shipping...

Feeling your pain and wish I could be more help -- pj

[Tyros567]

I had those problems , cannot turn off,freezing,etc,
Unplug it, wait 10 seconds
And fixed it.

[stkeys]

I had those problems , cannot turn off,freezing,etc,
Unplug it, wait 10 seconds
And fixed it.

You were lucky then, I've had to unplug it to turn it off occasionally but it didn't solve any of the problems.

[EileenL]

When you turn off Genos you must hold the Off button down for a couple of seconds or until you hear the click. If you just hit it quickly it won't always turn off properly.

[jimlaing]

I've had Genos for about a year, played dozens of gigs and lots of hours at home, and never had it 'freeze up'.  Have never had it 'crash' or have any serious problems.  Earlier on, there were some odd Registration issues, but I think those are mostly or completely fixed via the last update . . .

Best of luck getting yours replaced if it's a hardware problem and warranty gets you a replacement perhaps?

Jim

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The only trouble with the Genos is that it takes so long to get around it
Always things to discover.

It keeps you busy which can only be a good thing.
The only thing missing is the Intersteller Overdrive!! Also the Argon accumulator

aLL THE BEST
JOHN

[valimaties]

I have my Genos till November 2017.
I have a big error once a time, by "Unexpected error" with no button reaction, so I have to unplug the power cord.
I have powered on once a time, and no sound produced at main output. I have to restart keyboard, and after that everything has been ok.

Those which are telling Genos is bug-less,  they don't explore it as it has to be. There are some bugs (couple minor, couple major) which some of them were spoken here on forum, or some improper functionality of some controls, as well, but some of them will never be solved because they (Yamaha engineers) don't want to spend more time on Genos. A lot of people are grateful with what Genos has right now, so most of the feedback being positive, they will stop doing updates or repair. If they sold  one million of Genos, and they had half past over good feedback from users, they don't care about 100 "crazy" users that want some controls to behave as it has to be, or some mini-bugs to be repaired.

Hardware things must be solved by warranty if keyboard is already in warranty period, but if not anymore, an Yamaha products service will be pleasure to take your money (little joke, but real truth)

PS: I resigned myself about Genos update, so everyone should do as well

Best regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

I have my Genos till November 2017.
I have a big error once a time, by "Unexpected error" with no button reaction, so I have to unplug the power cord.
I have powered on once a time, and no sound produced at main output. I have to restart keyboard, and after that everything has been ok.

Those which are telling Genos is bug-less,  they don't explore it as it has to be. There are some bugs (couple minor, couple major) which some of them were spoken here on forum, or some improper functionality of some controls, as well, but some of them will never be solved because they (Yamaha engineers) don't want to spend more time on Genos. A lot of people are grateful with what Genos has right now, so most of the feedback being positive, they will stop doing updates or repair. If they sold  one million of Genos, and they had half past over good feedback from users, they don't care about 100 "crazy" users that want some controls to behave as it has to be, or some mini-bugs to be repaired.

Hardware things must be solved by warranty if keyboard is already in warranty period, but if not anymore, an Yamaha products service will be pleasure to take your money (little joke, but real truth)

PS: I resigned myself about Genos update, so everyone should do as well

Best regards,
Vali

If there are still bugs, then why is there no sticky topic on this forum, where people can describe those bugs?

I think such a topic when maintained correctly complete with a bug list, updated after every patch would be a good thing.

In general casual users will probably not run in bugs, those will only hurt the deep divers. But those bugs still deserve a seat on this forum?

[EileenL]

I would say all bugs have been sorted and what most people seem to want is additions to the OS which is a completely different thing. I am sure there will be another update but I think Yamaha will wait so they can cover some requests that are possible instead of keep bringing out small updates here and there. We must just wait and see.

[valimaties]

Hi Bachus.

There was some time some discussions about encountered bugs. Some of this forum users, I don't want to write names, said there are no bugs and ONLY users fault of using Genos This made me laugh then and make me laugh now again. These things are telling me which level of player it is, and because I don't create polemics, I stoped then and I stop now saying more.
I like my keyboard, but really, it's not my wife and it's not my child to love it so much. I like it very much, but if it has real bugs, so let's solve them by show them and to chose the NORMAL way it has to be.
There was some time a wish which has been told even to Joe, about creating a new Genos thread view (as they are like Genos Demos, Genos Styles, etc) with Genos Bugs. But the request was denied because not only Joe and many others told us this will not be a constructive thread and will create a lot of polemics on the forum.
I know that on the biggest competitor's forum, ANY bugs found in the keyboard is accepted and discussed between users and technical stuff (even with building engineers) and they solve problems. Here, indeed, is not an official forum for Yamaha, it's Joe's forum, and he (and moderators, also) do everything to maintain a level of discretion and "relax" on forum's discussions.

PS: Eileen, I have spoke with Yamaha directly about some bugs, which here was told me there are "additions"... They accepted there was bugs, not additions
I spoke ONLY about bugs, real bugs, not additional functions. Touch controls does not work as it has to be, and this is a bug, not an additional function. Yamaha Europe admits this is a bug, but thay don't know if Japanese team will solve this bad functionality. Saving multiple DSP on the same channel is a bug, not an additional function... Selecting two channels instruments to show its location, if they are the same instrument, it will not scroll automatically to instrument's page... These are BUGS. Known bugs for those which work indeed on their keyboards...

I better stop saying something else... It's better

PS2: I think this is another thread with possible rising polemics
So I really apologize if I bother someone with my opinions... 

Best regards,
Vali

[beykock]

Hi Vali,

It looks like Yamaha have the intention to launch a Genos update ( soon ) to solve all bugs.

For the time being patience might hopefully make you smile.

Take care,

Babette

[valimaties]

Hi Vali,

It looks like Yamaha have the intention to launch a Genos update ( soon ) to solve all bugs.

For the time being patience might hopefully make you smile.

Take care,

Babette

Hi Babette.
I really don't see any of these "signs" ...  There is no one from official part telling us something about it...
I'm smiling, be sure, as I said, I resigned myself

Best regards,
Vali

[BenoitM]

I would say all bugs have been sorted

Sorry Eileen, I can't agree on this one. There's still many bugs as of version 1.30:
- Inability to save multiples tweaked DSPs assigned to the same voice as registration is the first bug I encoutered. It's a bug, not an 'additional feature request' , because the Genos U.I. allows you to freely assign the DSPs to any voice, and adding more than 1 DSP to a specific voice is even an advertised feature from Yamaha, so the fact that we can freely assign DSPs and change their parameters, but can't save them as a Registration is definitively a Bug.
- Is this not a Bug ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U
- In the 'Style Assembly' function, I encoutered some 'Memory Error' several times (randomly) , to me this feature is useless if it is not reliable... If I copy a Style part one by one, the error is really rare, but if I try to copy several parts in one operation, the error is much more frequent... As a Keyboard player, I really don't care about internal Memory Management errors, and as a professional developer I see it as a badly programmed feature...
- The touch screen is great, but the 'focus management' of controls is not. Someone else on this forum already pointed the awkward behavior of the Genos concerning the touch response of some controls... At first, I thought it was my fault, and changed my 'routine' by simply touching the knob on screen and using the physical rotary wheel, or the plus / minus buttons, to adjust the virtual knob value, but since other people have the same problem, Yamaha should at least question itself...
- The inability to set a User Style or Voice as Favorite is more a goof than a bug , but still it is embarrassing for a +4000€ 'Professional Workstation' ...

... and that's only the ones I personally encoutered...

That beeing said, I agree with you with the fact that some people were complaining about missing features and ask Yamaha to add them in a Firmware update, or the fact that some people think that there's a bug where there is simply a feature (the first time my R1/R2 voices were no longer sounding, wereas the R3 was Ok, I thought that it was a bug, but in fact it was simply my Keyboard Split that was not correctly configured... ) 


I really hope that the rumors for a big update in February 2019 are true. The Genos is by itself a wonderful instrument, but if those annoyances were ironed out, it would be really even better ! (ho, and I would regain faith in Yamaha's Customer Policy, btw.)

Benoit

[Yinon]

Hello BenoitM,

You wrote:

"- Is this not a Bug ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U"

Very interesting.
Could this be phasing?  My hunch is that since the sounds (samples) are similar and it's mostly decay and release which change between them, the issue is actually in the speaker which means the signals from your first sound and second sounds are clashing and cancelling each other .... Try other string sounds which are not so similar in the core sample and check this theory.

Sounds like phasing to me ...

[valimaties]

Hello BenoitM,

You wrote:

"- Is this not a Bug ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U"

Very interesting.
Could this be phasing?  My hunch is that since the sounds (samples) are similar and it's mostly decay and release which change between them, the issue is actually in the speaker which means the signals from your first sound and second sounds are clashing and cancelling each other .... Try other string sounds which are not so similar in the core sample and check this theory.

Sounds like phasing to me ...

Looking to Tyros 5 update history, they have some bugs with voices and sound (BTW, I never liked "Fixed minor problems"... these seems to me more like they hide to me some important bugs solved and they don't want to "expand" the list of encountered bugs).

This look to me as a bug and I think this is more like a DSP bug, because if you listen well, the problem starts after a couple of seconds, not directly when he starts playing with both voices.

Regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

I would say all bugs have been sorted and what most people seem to want is additions to the OS which is a completely different thing. I am sure there will be another update but I think Yamaha will wait so they can cover some requests that are possible instead of keep bringing out small updates here and there. We must just wait and see.

I don't think all bugs are solved...
But i guess you mean saying, all major bugs that hurt the average user are patched
That i can confirm, as i have seen none of them the past 20 days..

However its obvious that like any software operated device, there will allways be minor bugs to solve, its quite normal that even after a carefully prepared new patch some minor bugs remain or surface..

I think its important for both Yamaha as well as the users to discuss these.
I found that on the German Yamaha forums, there is quite a lot of discussions about minor bugs and OS irritators..

Its important however when discussing things like this to label the problems ..
I personally would label them like this

-faults, instruments that don't work at all, or have hardware issues or software issues which are unique to that instruments... these in general are warranty issues

-Major bugs, that interfere with the daily use of  larger groups of players

-Minor bugs, things that happen once in a while, or just interfere with the workflow of a few users. But are still a bug, i.e. the function does not work as Yamaha intended it to work..

-workflow issues. Functions that work as Yamaha intended them to work. But they don't work for peoples workflow. In general they are ease of use issues..  these are not bugs(many people call them bugs).. they are flaws.. and yes, its important to discuss them.. because this is where patches and upgrades can deliver, but only when Yamaha knows that this is affecting a bigger group of users..  if its a single user, then its not an issue.

-OS shortcommings, functionallity that is missing in the Genos. This is based on opinions. And yes its important for Yamaha to know.. altough discussing it, does not mean Yamaha needs to add it. But some of these things would make life a lot easier..

- corrupt data, user files that got corrupted somehow and cause problems, of all kinds.. these are hard to filter..


The problem with discussing bugs is that some people call all the above : Bugs..
This makes the discussion unnecesary chaotic..
But i think not discussing these at all, is the worst thing we can do..

[Bachus]

Sorry Eileen, I can't agree on this one. There's still many bugs as of version 1.30:
- Inability to save multiples tweaked DSPs assigned to the same voice as registration is the first bug I encoutered. It's a bug, not an 'additional feature request' , because the Genos U.I. allows you to freely assign the DSPs to any voice, and adding more than 1 DSP to a specific voice is even an advertised feature from Yamaha, so the fact that we can freely assign DSPs and change their parameters, but can't save them as a Registration is definitively a Bug.

I am sorry, this is not a bug, but a workflow issue

- Is this not a Bug ? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sin4JYqtO5U

This seems a minor bug, but it could also be a fasing issue.. some sounds just don't work well together

- In the 'Style Assembly' function, I encoutered some 'Memory Error' several times (randomly) , to me this feature is useless if it is not reliable... If I copy a Style part one by one, the error is really rare, but if I try to copy several parts in one operation, the error is much more frequent... As a Keyboard player, I really don't care about internal Memory Management errors, and as a professional developer I see it as a badly programmed feature...

Minor bug

- The touch screen is great, but the 'focus management' of controls is not. Someone else on this forum already pointed the awkward behavior of the Genos concerning the touch response of some controls... At first, I thought it was my fault, and changed my 'routine' by simply touching the knob on screen and using the physical rotary wheel, or the plus / minus buttons, to adjust the virtual knob value, but since other people have the same problem, Yamaha should at least question itself...

Minor bug and a general touchscreen issue. This happens mostly with knobs that dont have 127 steps but only a few, in this case you need to move your finger much to far to see a reaction

- The inability to set a User Style or Voice as Favorite is more a goof than a bug , but still it is embarrassing for a +4000€ 'Professional Workstation' ...

Workflow issue, or goof as you call it

... and that's only the ones I personally encoutered...

That beeing said, I agree with you with the fact that some people were complaining about missing features and ask Yamaha to add them in a Firmware update, or the fact that some people think that there's a bug where there is simply a feature (the first time my R1/R2 voices were no longer sounding, wereas the R3 was Ok, I thought that it was a bug, but in fact it was simply my Keyboard Split that was not correctly configured... ) 




I really hope that the rumors for a big update in February 2019 are true. The Genos is by itself a wonderful instrument, but if those annoyances were ironed out, it would be really even better ! (ho, and I would regain faith in Yamaha's Customer Policy, btw.)

Benoit

Not all are bugs.. see my other post above..
but i do hope Yamaha adresses all these issues in a patch..

[sugarplumsss]

Wow Mr Bacchus... that was a brilliant set of distinctions you made... just brilliant.  I nominate you for POTUS 

[Bachus]

Wow Mr Bacchus... that was a brilliant set of distinctions you made... just brilliant.  I nominate you for POTUS 

Sorry, no clue what a POTUS is?


Never mind, i googled it..
Probably can't do any worse then the current one..

[BenoitM]

Bachus,

I mostly agree with you, sometimes we abuse the generic 'Bug' term to indifferently designate minor annoyances, 'real' bugs, and big flaws...

But in you list, you forgot one often used 'category' in software development: "It's not a Bug, it's a Feature".
a.k.a:  yes, we, developers, overlooked this scenario, but we are: {too lazy | not interested | moved to another project | <insert your favorite excuse here> }  to correct it. And we, the mighty engineers, know better than you, the consumer, what's good or not for you and we won't change anything to this 'feature' in the current version. (Ho, and don't forget to buy the next version of our product, loyal sheeps fans.)

Sorry Eileen, I can't agree on this one. There's still many bugs as of version 1.30:
- Inability to save multiples tweaked DSPs assigned to the same voice as registration is the first bug I encoutered. It's a bug, not an 'additional feature request' , because the Genos U.I. allows you to freely assign the DSPs to any voice, and adding more than 1 DSP to a specific voice is even an advertised feature from Yamaha, so the fact that we can freely assign DSPs and change their parameters, but can't save them as a Registration is definitively a Bug.

I am sorry, this is not a bug, but a workflow issue

And you said:

-workflow issues. Functions that work as Yamaha intended them to work. But they don't work for peoples workflow. In general they are ease of use issues..  these are not bugs(many people call them bugs).. they are flaws.. and yes, its important to discuss them.. because this is where patches and upgrades can deliver, but only when Yamaha knows that this is affecting a bigger group of users..  if its a single user, then its not an issue.

Workflow Issue: Functions that work as Yamaha intended them to work    So, you basically tell me that it perfectly makes sense that :
- Yamaha allows us to use/stack multiples DSPs for one voice
- Yamaha allows us to tweak each DSPs to our liking (change parameters)
- Yamaha allows us to store our Panel Settings into a convenient Registration
- And that Registration will remember the multiple chosen DSPs
- But will remember only the last modified dsp detail parameters ?

At the end, when you recall your (at the time of saving) perfect-sounding voice after having switched to another registration, you barely recognize it ? I gave up tweaking multiples DSPs because I don't want to have to manually change the detail parameters each time I recall my registration (and, no, taking advantage of the huge amount  of 10 custom dsps slot is not a workaround)

Sorry, but for me it's a Bug, not a 'Workflow Issue', because it simply doesn't work as intended.
I know that it affects only a small fraction of Genos users, but personally I see it as a great waste of power and possibilities !

I really hope that Yamaha will fix it in a future Firmware update, I'm convinced that it would open a lot of opportunities to create new sounds from existing presets, and allows us to easily share our registrations with the community ... For example, the preset 'Distorted Guitars' are pretty good, but when you stack multiples tweaked DSPs on top of the 'raw' samples, it reach another level !

Of course, I understand people that are pleased with the current firmware. If you don't use a buggy feature you don't see the frustration other people are experiencing ...
That's why I think that even if some people are complaining about bugs that aren't bugs, it would be a good thing if Yamaha would be more open to suggestions and 'bug reports'. Having to report bugs and trying to find workaround on a forum like this prove that Yamaha's Customer relationship is 'suboptimal'    (it would be a 'win-win' relation: Yamaha could gets some good suggestions from 'Real World' players for their next version, clarify the status of user-reported problems, prioritize the bug resolution backlog, enhance the documentation based on user feedback, and reduce the user frustration caused by the actual 'Official Silence' policy )

Don't get me wrong, I love my Genos, it's fantastic, but as I said elsewhere it's a great piece of Hardware (under)powered by its Software  I got my Genos with a v1.02 firmware ! I experienced 'stuck notes', 'corrupt registrations', and lots of other 'annoyances' that were corrected several months later... but I still don't understand that a company like Yamaha release to the mass market an unfinished product like this ! (and I'm a professional Software Developer for more than 22 years now , I know one thing or two about unfinished products released to customers  )

So, in the end, the fact that so many people are complaining is a sign that something is wrong, either in the product itself, in the documentation, in the Firmware, and so on...

Ho, and I really hope for a new Firmware.
Wait & See  

Benoit

[markstyles]

I scanned thru the posts, but not  super closely..  Have you considered your electricity?..  Years ago,  I had an Apple computer clone computer (apple sanctioned) called Power Computing.  I fried the motherboard twice, under warrantee.  It was in home service.  The 2nd technician, was 20 years older than the first.. (more experienced).  He turned the machine on.  and started checking voltages.  Turns out my apartment (with old AC wiring, had 5 volts floating on the ground plug.   

This did not bother any of my keyboards, midi hardware, or monitors, but wreaked havoc on the computer.  Some lackey the building had hired, screwed up.  This technician replaced the motherboard.   

I IMMEDIATELY went out and bought a UPS.. (uninterrupted power supply).   This box takes AC current from the wall, and stores it in a battery..  then you plug your instruments into it's multiple AC outputs.  Presto - always consistent clean AC power, no fluctuations, brownouts, spikes etc.  All of those are filtered out, A UPS also since it is a battery, has the ability to stay on for several minutes, should the AC power die.. This gives you time to shut your computer other instruments in an orderly manner..

Although not absolutely required, this is a great device, and really needed if you live in a place where the AC is spotty, you live in a Very rural place, or an old building.  Computers and any device writing to a hard drive while AC can be can have data corrupted beyond retrieval.

If your other KBDS play fine in the same AC socket. This is probably not the issue.

Normally most KBDs are tougher, than computer.

[mikf]

 Benoit can't you just save the modified voice as a custom user voice? Then call up the user voice in a registration?
Mike