using VST Plugins, Sample Libraries with genos

[mrkim]

Is anyone using VST Plugins, Sample Libraries with genos

[markstyles]

VST plug-ins run on a computer inside a DAW..  There was a company that sold a rack mount unit that ran VST plug-ins; it was basically a computer with a small LED readout and some buttons.

Genos is not designed to run plug-ins.. Most sample libraries are in the Kontakt format.  These can  be run on a computer DAW with Audio Units, vst, and some other formats.

Genos sounds are in a completely different format..   I suppose if some one were program save, they might be able to convert a sample library to Genos format..

VST's and sample libraries have  several samples for the same note, these are substituted, alternated for more realistic sound,  They are selected in 'round robin' format, that is each time a key is struck, a sample is played, when same note is struck again, a different sample of same pitch is used. Just like in real life,  each note, issued from a real instrument, has slight variations. 

[Bachus]

VST plug-ins run on a computer inside a DAW..  There was a company that sold a rack mount unit that ran VST plug-ins; it was basically a computer with a small LED readout and some buttons.

Genos is not designed to run plug-ins.. Most sample libraries are in the Kontakt format.  These can  be run on a computer DAW with Audio Units, vst, and some other formats.

Genos sounds are in a completely different format..   I suppose if some one were program save, they might be able to convert a sample library to Genos format..

VST's and sample libraries have  several samples for the same note, these are substituted, alternated for more realistic sound,  They are selected in 'round robin' format, that is each time a key is struck, a sample is played, when same note is struck again, a different sample of same pitch is used. Just like in real life,  each note, issued from a real instrument, has slight variations.

I guess thats what he meant... running them on a laptop/windowstablet .. next to Genos.


I host my vst's on a mac in mainstage

However assuming you want to run them on a windows machine, have a look at Camelot Pro, it might be a perfect host app for VSTs in combination with the Genos

[mrkim]

Hi yes what i want to ask is that people that are using  vst's along side or in addition to or with there genios  to gain the new sounds   and how well the sounds of the  vst's sound along with the genois.  thanks kim

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Yes, you can use VST instruments alongside the Genos.
You can put a song in Cubase for example and use vst tracks for vst instruments and audio tracks for samples.
Firstly it is best to mixdown your midi song on the Genos to wave file and then add vst and audio on separate tracks . All that lot can be mixed down to final wave file and you are done.
Then there is the mixing and mastering stage to finalize.
You can also set up your Genos to play vst sound instruments and use the Genos styles, but you have to turn local off and assign your vst instrument to channel 1 or the style will go all iggledepickly! . I think you loop back from computer through sound box like a focusrite into the auxillary in and all plays out of the Genos to speakers.

all the best
john

[Bachus]

Hi yes what i want to ask is that people that are using  vst's along side or in addition to or with there genios  to gain the new sounds   and how well the sounds of the  vst's sound along with the genois.  thanks kim

Where vst's shine compared to Genos...
- acoustic piano's due to huge sample sizes, and simulations.
- same goes for DP's
- as well as B3 and church organ sounds
- and there are some huge string libraries
- and offcourse synthesizers.. 
where vst's reign even more is editabillity, and dsp power.. in general most sounds have 3 or 4 dsp effects... and then a master bus with even more dsp..


But keep in mind, that yamaha offers something that you will not really find in VST's. Many of the sa and sa2 acoustic sounds are specifically created for plaing live... where vst's have many more articulations.. they dont have the automatisation of the yamaha sounds..

Where that iseven more visual is the ensemble sound section od the Genos, thats incredible for playing live and in realtime...


Its a pitty that the Genos does not have audio over usb like most other modern instruments.. but you can mix the vst sounds well over the audio input if your pc has a high quality audio interface..  keep in mind that vst's are not ballanced, so you need to ballance everything in the mix..

Another thing with vst's is loading times.. at home no problem, but using them live takes precautions to make vst sounds preload...

Next, vst's can be an expensive hobby...  thats why i am more and more intrigued by the ipad, which offers sounds and packs on par with the best VST's but at a much better price..  sur ethere is much less choice... but then there is allready more then we ever need..

[markstyles]

I'm so sorry... It dawned on me this morning, you were asking about using VSTs, VI along side and with your Genos...   I guess I was having a senior moment..    I use Logic Pro with a lot of Kontakt, UVI libraries, and a bunch of virtual instruments. 

I figure out, and record the left hand chords for Genos in my DAW.  sync  Genos to follow DAW.  Then I mix and match different Genos style parts. Sometimes using Genos, or else Kontakt, or Falcon (which runs UVI libraries).. Sampletank, Musiclab, Rob Papen, Arturia, A.I.R technologies, Superior Drums,Drum-a-gog.

I like using VI's because you can almost instantly bounce them offline, into audio in your DAW..  I will use different instrument parts, from different styles, I will individually overdub just one new style part, while Logic is playing all I previously recorded.  The nice thing, is you can switch between your main sections, at different times. so everything doesn't switch at the same time.

I sometime might record four different bass midi styles from Genos.  Cut them into one bar chunks, then switch between the four different styles..  You get a bass part, much more complex than from just using a style..  Same with other instruments.  One great benefit, is to record a Genos style, then analyze, and learn to play it.  It teaches you a lot.

In spite of having to record Genos parts into your DAW in real time.  The real beauty as mentioned by Bachus is  Genos's real strength are the  Articulation , and mega patches.  They can really outshine sample libraries in some aspects. I have a few other hardware synths, but mostly stick to virtual instruments and Genos.. It keeps my set-up small.

I have also toyed with creating minor changes in the CHORD track (additional complementary faster changing related chords), in my DAW.  I feed this to Genos, for complex kbd, or guitar  part.
It takes patience, time. AND it also gives you major insight into creating music.

Another trick, is using Genos Intro's and Outro's with your DAW.. You can tack a different intro onto your song, play the intro blocked CHORD  from DAW,  you can change key, or chords during a long 8 bar intro.  Sounds like you studied 3 years, of music theory, besides sounding stunning and different. 

Or you can go as simple as just recording Genos into your Daw, substituting or adding some virtual instruments, to the mix. You can also use some more expensive, reverbs, compressors, mastering plug-ins.  I most often substitute Genos drums for Superior drum sounds, or Drum-a-gog or Steven Slates drum replacement system. 

It all depends on how involved you want to get with things. 

SO,  Genos by itself is perfectly excellent, and might be the only tool you need, or you can use any/all of the above or find other techniques..  The beauty of music, is it can provide excitement, joy, regardless of your abilities.  Anyone can create and enjoy music, Those of us, who purchase hi end arrangers, have many more tools/techniques at our hands. 

I used to own a ton of hardware synths, but bought a Tyros years ago, stripped down my studio, to just a few instruments.  I also really did not fair well at playing a Genos live.  Moving thru windows, making changes on the fly.  I could not remember the sequence of steps to take. So i had to resort using a DAW.  I also very much appreciate folks here who can memorize all the had movements to make an interesting piece, live in real time. 

Have fun

[mrkim]

Hi thanks to all that has replied a lot of great information,i am new to vst and sample lib and  draws . i see that many of the sample lib say they are stand alone. i take it that means you do not need a draw? if so if your main purpose is just to use the sounds to play along with genos  do you need a draw  what are the pros cons with and with out draw.Do most of  you use your genos to play the vst sounds or use a keyboard.  love hearing all your advice, thanks kim

[Joe H]

Why not just buy some expansion packs.  The Genos has lots of expansion memory.

Joe H

[Bachus]

Why not just buy some expansion packs.  The Genos has lots of expansion memory.

Joe H

depends on what you want..

i would love to buy a steinway and a Bosendorfer piano expansion, each about 500MB  in size (no bigger)
This way i can use the 128 voice poly for the external voices on the piano sounds (dampered piano uses lots of poly)
and it would also give me the piano characteristics i need..

But where it comes to synth sounds, a sample can not really be compared to a virtual synth, because samples play the same samples each time, while synths have real time controll over the oscilator.

But in general, there is not much else i would need where it comes to sounds, because pretty much everything else i would really need is covered well in the Genos, espescially with the expansion packs around.  but then need and want is different things, playing with external sounds is quite a lot of fun just because of their interface, which gives a huge amount more depth..

[willem7397]

Agree, a decent piano pack would be nice as expansion. It's beyond me why they give it to Montage owners for free and not make it available for Genos and Tyros owners.
Anyway probably somebody will jump into this gap. You see already that people offer piano packs for sale or try to sample libraries and convert to yem. Just a missed opportunity for Yamaha

[Bachus]

Agree, a decent piano pack would be nice as expansion. It's beyond me why they give it to Montage owners for free and not make it available for Genos and Tyros owners.
Anyway probably somebody will jump into this gap. You see already that people offer piano packs for sale or try to sample libraries and convert to yem. Just a missed opportunity for Yamaha

Hope we will see this at Musikmesse later this year to give Genos salesanother push..

[C-clef]

Some Virtual Instruments (VI) come as both a VST, to include in DAW software, and as a stand alone program version.

One such is made by Garritan.
So you can get their multisampled version of the Abbey Road Yamaha CFX Grand Piano, run up the stand alone player and load the piano into it.
Connect to the MIDI input port on the PC or Mac of your keyboard, select which MIDI channel you want it to respond to, set up reverb, etc., etc.
And play.
With this library the only disadvantage is that the download package is 2.4 GigaBytes (for the lite version) and it expands on set up to around 12 Gig!!!!
It uses 20 samples per note at different velocities, and further samples for string resonance, and for all of the various pedal uses.

You do need a fast disk to install it on, preferably an SSD, and at least 8 Gig memory, and a sound card that has ASIO drivers.

Garritan also do an orchestra, Jazz band and various other libraries.
I can tell you more if you're interested.

Colin.

[EB5AGV]

Some Virtual Instruments (VI) come as both a VST, to include in DAW software, and as a stand alone program version.

One such is made by Garritan.
So you can get their multisampled version of the Abbey Road Yamaha CFX Grand Piano, run up the stand alone player and load the piano into it.
Connect to the MIDI input port on the PC or Mac of your keyboard, select which MIDI channel you want it to respond to, set up reverb, etc., etc.
And play.
With this library the only disadvantage is that the download package is 2.4 GigaBytes (for the lite version) and it expands on set up to around 12 Gig!!!!
It uses 20 samples per note at different velocities, and further samples for string resonance, and for all of the various pedal uses.

You do need a fast disk to install it on, preferably an SSD, and at least 8 Gig memory, and a sound card that has ASIO drivers.

Garritan also do an orchestra, Jazz band and various other libraries.
I can tell you more if you're interested.

Colin.

I do exactly the same with The Grand 3 from Steinberg and it really makes a difference. Using the same audio setup (JBL LSR305 monitors plus LSR310S subwoofer), the sound is lots fuller than using the internal Genos piano sounds.

Using my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm headphones the difference is also noticeable, if perhaps a bit less. Genos through good headphones sounds also excellent in general.

Jose

[mrkim]

HI from one of the above post You do need a fast disk to install it on, preferably an SSD, and at least 8 Gig memory, and a sound card that has ASIO drivers. For some one new to all of this what  spec foe the computer be  memory speed or what computer would be best for vsts thanks kim

[C-clef]

Hi Kim,

Well, I'm using a fairly old Lenovo laptop.
I bought it used from a reputable refurbisher via UK eBay. It cost around 200 UK pounds as I recall.
It's called a ThinkPad T420 and it came with 8GB memory in it.

It's running Windows 7 pro (64 bit). I don't like Windows 10.
I installed a 128GB SSD chip in it for the operating system.
It has a 500GB high speed (7200rpm) hard disk for my sample libraries (I only use about a quarter of it for several libraries).
You could run it on a slower machine, and it's only the massive CFX piano that takes a little while to load.

I bought an external sound module from Steinberg that connects over USB.
It's called a UR22mkII (catchy name eh!)
The ASIO driver software is made by Yamaha for Steinberg.

That works fine for most of my use, but I don't play huge orchestral pieces through it.

Any help?
Colin.

[mrkim]

Hi thanks  trying to gather as much info as possible before i buy. i will want a orchestral vst, a choir or fairy voices , and strings and native American sounds, would i be better of buying a keyboard controller or i have my old tyros 3 i could use. ominsphire looks like another  synth that sounds good have been  listing to a lot of you tube videos and reviews but there is nothing as good  as advice form  people here on our own site thanks looking forward to all the new fun kim

[Bachus]

Hi thanks  trying to gather as much info as possible before i buy. i will want a orchestral vst, a choir or fairy voices , and strings and native American sounds, would i be better of buying a keyboard controller or i have my old tyros 3 i could use. ominsphire looks like another  synth that sounds good have been  listing to a lot of you tube videos and reviews but there is nothing as good  as advice form  people here on our own site thanks looking forward to all the new fun kim

For the orchestral and choir libraries.. Kontakt seems to be the way most people choose, but it requires you to buy kontakt and then expand trough extra libraries..   Another option is going for the new sampletank version and adding Miroslav orchestra to that.. 

But in general i advise people that start out with NI Komplete (contains kontakt) and covers pretty much everything...


Omnisphere has been my favourite for many years, espescialy when compared with keyscape..Its a sound designers dream.. and keyscape is the best keyboard instrument expansion (Piano/DP) on the market.

[Bachus]

For the orchestral and choir libraries.. Kontakt seems to be the way most people choose, but it requires you to buy kontakt and then expand trough extra libraries..   Another option is going for the new sampletank version and adding Miroslav orchestra to that.. 

But in general i advise people that start out with NI Komplete (contains kontakt) and covers pretty much everything...


Omnisphere has been my favourite for many years, espescialy when compared with keyscape..Its a sound designers dream.. and keyscape is the best keyboard instrument expansion (Piano/DP) on the market.

I would also advice looking into Camelot pro as a host, its new and very promising in combining software and hardware..  espescially after this summer when its expanded with support for VST effects..

[C-clef]

Some good advice there from Bachus.

There's certainly a vast range of instruments in the Kontakt libraries, and they're good.

Personally I use GPO5 (Garritan Personal Orchestra v5) for orchestral sounds.
There's a library of Jazz and Big Band instruments from the same source called JaBB3.
There's Instant Orchestra for general orchestral mixes (cinematic one might call them) and a library of ethnic world instruments too.
If you want a really good grand piano go for the CFX lite, same company.  It's had some really good reviews.
Don't go for the full concert grand, it expands to 122GB (yes one hundred and twenty two Giga Bytes of samples), the lite version is a tenth of that.
Take a look through the Garritan web site at www.garritan.com. The examples are from sequenced work.
They do need a reasonable knowledge of the MIDI controls used to get the best from them.

For playing most stuff into a sequencer I use a MIDI controller keyboard, a Samson Graphite 49.
But it's not one I'd really recommend for beginners. It takes a reasonable understanding of MIDI to program it.

Hope that's of some help.
Colin.

[markstyles]

Modartt makes a 'physical modeling' piano - and other keyboards.  They are not cheap, but since computer modeled, extremely small, no samples. It's a Stand alone program, also VST, AU, VST2, VST3

The good part is they have a free demo, that works 20 minutes at a time.  It has six notes missing.  some low, some high. Most of the time, you never miss them.  Or I transpose the key, so I don't lose notes.  If I had the money, I'd buy it. 

https://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq6

[willem7397]

Pianoteq is indeed a nice program with low pc/laptop requirements. The stage version is not that expensive (129 eur), it includes 2 piano sounds. They just released version 6.4 with some sound improvements. The stage version has already a lot of sound tweaking options. It's recommended to first play a bit with the velocity curve. Also the aging option is nice.

[mrkim]

Hi some of the  VST Plugins, Sample Libraries are very high priced what are some of the best sites with the best price they all seen to be about the same . are there times when they go on sale ,  also what are some good forums about getting started  with this new venture thanks kim

[Bachus]

Modartt makes a 'physical modeling' piano - and other keyboards.  They are not cheap, but since computer modeled, extremely small, no samples. It's a Stand alone program, also VST, AU, VST2, VST3

The good part is they have a free demo, that works 20 minutes at a time.  It has six notes missing.  some low, some high. Most of the time, you never miss them.  Or I transpose the key, so I don't lose notes.  If I had the money, I'd buy it. 

https://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq6

Due to the modeling Pianoteq offers the most natural feel when playing of any form of digital piano..
The sound quallity is good, but not as realistic as the Ivory and keyscape libraries..

PErsonally i love pianoteq, and it has long been my favorite piano..

[C-clef]

Hi some of the  VST Plugins, Sample Libraries are very high priced what are some of the best sites with the best price they all seen to be about the same . are there times when they go on sale ,  also what are some good forums about getting started  with this new venture thanks kim

Yes, some are exceptionally highly priced. It's usually these, not always, that require a highly specified computer to run on.
IMHO, best to avoid when you're just starting out.

What sort of libraries are you looking for, MrKim?
Orchestral, Jazz, Big Band, Ethnic instruments, Organs, Synthesisers?
Just as an example here's a site selling quite a few: www.bestservice.com/virtual_instruments.html
Please note, I'm not specifically recommending them, but I have bought from them in the past and all went okay.

You could always try messing about initially with some of the free stuff that's out there to get the idea.
Try Googling "free virtual instruments", you might be surpised what comes up.

Colin.

[mrkim]

Hi it is intersting you use best service here is a list of what i thing i would like
Best service the orchestra
                   the voice of elves
                   forest kingdom 2
                   emotional violin
                   Africa voices
Vienna symp library smart orchestra

kim
             

[soundphase]

Hi it is intersting you use best service here is a list of what i thing i would like
Best service the orchestra
                   the voice of elves
                   forest kingdom 2
                   emotional violin
                   Africa voices
Vienna symp library smart orchestra

kim
             

Violin and symphonic orchestra free sounds from CMS sound-design are good.

[C-clef]

Hi it is intersting you use best service here is a list of what i thing i would like
Best service the orchestra
                   the voice of elves
                   forest kingdom 2
                   emotional violin
                   Africa voices
Vienna symp library smart orchestra

kim

Hi Kim,

So, before you buy anything, in your choices
1/ check whether it requires another product to work, e.g. "requires Kontakt Player version 5.7.3 to work." Extra cost. Extra installation procedures.
2/ take a look at the system requirements, some may require a very fast powerful,machine or only work on a Mac for example.
3/ have a good look at the licencing arrangements. The Vienna library needs a "dongle" to work. A dongle is a special USB stick onto which is downloaded an authorisation code.
This, in my view, adds extra hassle, and cost, but others are just fine with it.
and, of course 4/ price.

My suggestion would be to go for just one product initially. Maybe a simple orchestral library to start, with its own stand alone player.
Once you've got the grip of the techniques used to control it (e.g. keyswitches, legato technique, MIDI controllers, etc.) you'll find out whethervirtual instruments are for you, and will be in a position to make informed choices about the next step.
It's why I started with the Garritan Orchestra (GPO4 back then in 2009), and gradually moved on from there adding one of two Vienna libraries, some woodwinds and brass, symphonic choirs, a CFX piano and so on. But this has been over a period of nearly ten years.
The current GPO5 comes with the stand alone or VST ARIA player which has a convolution reverb built into it. Both 32 and 64 bit versions come in the package.
The authorisation is a special ".png" file with your codes built into it. You download the png and drag and drop it on the ARIA player and you're done.
But ... you may not like GPO5. Take a look here and wander through the several tabs.
www.garritan.com/products/personal-orchestra-5/features-benefits/

Colin.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Arturia and the New Sampletank, Korg package, M1, Wavestation etc. Natives Abysynth and Fm 8 worth a look. Also like Wusikstation 9 as good deal.
Try Synth 1 free and there are bung loads of fm sounds to go with it. It says 1.13 beta but it is rock solid  and you can get sounds  that go way over a few thousand and not cpu intensive either.
I also like IK multimedia's Effects, but wait until they have another group buy or sale as they are drastically reduced from time to time.
Garritan is also good
There is a minefield of Vst instruments and effects out there.
Also for Genos  CUBASE 10 !! . This program also finds your sounds on the Genos with a little update from the yamaha site on the download list. That is if you want put in sounds from the Genos.

The big must is a decent multicore computer with lots of space and plenty of ram    That way you will not have to worry about anti-virus protection or large buffer sizes and space and speed. also with a good Focusrite box  your latency is almost zero. No more pops and crackles hopefully!!


all the best
john

[mrkim]

Hi  the great advice just keeps coming  thanks to all of you now for my next question . It looks like all Sample Libraries have to be downloaded over internet bad for me my speed is only 3mbps,  how do you back up the software .can you have it on more than one computer.and do i need a separate audio interface, thanks kim