A working musician tries my GENOS (and 670)

[edtek]

A friend of mine came over to visit for several hours and try my new GENOS.

I met Alex when I took a beginners guitar class for seniors he teaches at the local community college.  Alex teaches piano and guitar in group classes or one on one.  He does one man band gigs at restaurants or wherever and also has a small 4 or 5 man pick up band.  He also plays in a big band.  In other words, a working musician trying to scratch out a living in music any way he can.

For his OMB gigs he uses a small Yamaha kb with external speaker amps.  I think it's an older model of the PSR-E363.  He uses only preset styles and voices.  He usually sings a couple choruses, then does an improv and finishes with another vocal chorus.  I've gone to a couple of his gigs and he sounds awesome and is very entertaining.

He tried out my GENOS and thought it was cool and all but I don't think I impressed him with my struggles to set it up to show off its features.  He thought it was kind of complicated.

He MUCH preferred my PSR-S670 (I keep my 670 in the living room and like to play it to keep my dog company (he likes the living room since it has big windows and he can check out the street scene)).  Alex spent most of his visit playing the 670 and as usual he sounded awesome.  He likes the sounds and styles, light weight and how easy it was to recall named registrations.  He wanted to buy it from me but I want to keep it :-)

As a retired engineer I still like my hi tech GENOS but can see how a working musician might find it hard to justify the cost.  I bought the GENOS for several reasons one of which was I thought it would save time with the touch screen and the built in kb but it has actually turned out to be a black hole time sink since I keep learning and trying out new features.  I'm hoping that after I get over the learning curve I will actually play it more.

BTW, I thought Alex might give me some secret tips but mostly he said practice melodies and try to improvise on them.  He did have an actual tip on my vocals.  He said I don't have a natural vibrato and I sound bad when I try to fake it.  He said just to work on singing a sustained tone and a vibrato would come with practice.

OK, this was probably a TLDR post (Too Long Didn't Read) but some might find it interesting I hope.

All the best,

[DrakeM]

Not too long. 


Yep. Practice your singing and record your vocals using the WAV recorder on the keyboard, it is a great tool for learining. Play the recording back and listen to what sounds off and try singing it another way. Like hold the notes shorter or longer. Your very own ears are your best tool when learning how to sing and improvise on the keyboard.

Regards
Drake

[vbdx66]

Hi Ed,

Interesting point of view. I'd be curious to read other opinions by Yamaha users playing their keyboard in the "real world".

Regards,

Vinciane

[DrakeM]

I practiced singing with a reel to reel tape recorder when learning to strum a 6 string guitar. I wasn't at the time wanting to sing but just play the guitar. I was listening to LP albums and trying to figure out the strumming patterns used on the record. Playing the tape back I could hear what it sounded like .. ie good or bad.

I took the same technique over to the keyboard when I wanted to figure out how to play an improvised lead for a song on the fly. I also used it when I was figuring out how and when to bend a note using the wheel when using a guitar voice.

Also if you are learning to sing ... CHANGE the KEY to fit your voice range .. use that transpose KEY on your keyboard to find your CORRECT key to sing the song in.

Regards
Drake

[travlin-easy]

When I was a working musician/entertainer, which was for the past 30 years until 2016, I, like many, began with a guitar, then graduated to an arranger keyboard. I've owned more than a dozen, several brands, and always returned to Yamaha for the sound and huge variety of styles.

The key ingredients to being successful with any keyboard as an onstage entertainer are:

1: The ability to read an audience.
2. The ability to be flexible.
3. The ability to be able to provide a constant flow of music with minimal dead time between songs.
4. The ability to sing and play with emotion that communicates this to the audience.
5. The ability to adapt to any situation that presents itself, equipment failures, audience requests, drunks, hecklers, severe weather conditions, etc...

The above are just the basics and there are dozens more things that must be done in order to be successful in this business and make a full-time living wage.

I suggest that the person who didn't like the sounds and voices on the Genos didn't take the time to go through the keyboard's many onboard features in depth, or tune the keyboard, which is a time consuming task that often took me a couple months with each new keyboard I purchased. This step is, IMO, imperative to say the very least.

All the best,

Gary

[pjd]

Hi Ed --

Thanks for posting. Your comments remind me of a conversation that I had with Phil Clendeninn (Yamaha synths). Phil remarked how many people see all the front panel buttons/lights and immediately get intimidated. They find it easier and more immediate to sit down and stretch out at a piano, for example.

Your friend might be finding the same comfort zone in the S670 that he has with his current instrument. With Gary's comments in mind, there is so much to do already on stage that one doesn't need added complexity. I don't entertain when I play live (it's church) and the work load is already high enough! Sometimes barely enough time to hit a button.

Thanks, again, and take care -- pj
 

[Al Ram]

yes. there are so many buttons and lights and knobs, etc.

For me the answer has been the blessed registrations.   I set up every song in advance and using registrations, playing live is much easier, just move from one registration to another. Everything is set up in advance.   No need to worry about buttons, ligths, knobs, etc. just the registrations.

thanks

[Fred Smith]

For me the answer has been the blessed registrations.   I set up every song in advance and using registrations, playing live is much easier, just move from one registration to another. Everything is set up in advance.   No need to worry about buttons, ligths, knobs, etc. just the registrations.

Couldn't agree more, Al.

Fred

[vbdx66]

Hi Roy,

Ed said « an older model of E363 » so he probably meant an E323, 333 or 343 I imagine. In this case the S670 would be something like a quantum leap.

Regards,

Vinciane

[Lee Batchelor]

Ed, obviously your friend is a stellar player and not a techy. I'd love to hear him play!

I think all the arrangers that Yamaha have produced since Day 1 have used the same basic approach. In the more advanced models like the Genos, there's just more to see and use. Registrations take all the intimidation factors out of the equation because once set up, the player can concentrate on the business of playing the keyboard. I'm sure that if he had several pre-registered setups, he would have thought the Genos was a huge technological triumph over all arrangers. My regards to your friend. Thanks for sharing the story!

[voodoo]

Hi,

OK, this was probably a TLDR post (Too Long Didn't Read) but some might find it interesting I hope.

indeed, very interesting topic. Thank you for posting.

I do understand fully your point. I had an S970 before I upgraded to my Genos. And I can understand your guest. The S970 is much smaller than the Genos and is a perfect keyboard. Even the S770 is a perfect keyboard and gives much quality for its low price. So I liked very much the S970 for its portability and also for its high class internal speakers. The Genos is hard to move and you are right, despite its touch screen it is more complicated to use.

But the main reason for preferring the Genos is its superior keybed. What did your guest say about the keybed of the S670?

Uli

[valimaties]

Hi,

indeed, very interesting topic. Thank you for posting.

I do understand fully your point. I had an S970 before I upgraded to my Genos. And I can understand your guest. The S970 is much smaller than the Genos and is a perfect keyboard. Even the S770 is a perfect keyboard and gives much quality for its low price. So I liked very much the S970 for its portability and also for its high class internal speakers. The Genos is hard to move and you are right, despite its touch screen it is more complicated to use.

But the main reason for preferring the Genos is its superior keybed. What did your guest say about the keybed of the S670?

Uli

Hi Uli.
In my opinion the touch screen eases my work, it is more reliable! Not to say that it has a lot of features more than a PSR series has, even if it is in top of the PSR series. 76 keys helps a lot by splitting the keyboard, 3 Rights instead of 2 on PSR, etc... A lot of pluses on Genos sides! 

Hi edtek.
There are several types of gigs, depending on what part  of world do you live and what are the people you sing for (age)! You can sing dance, or you can sing slow music, or pop-rock, jazz, ethnic, etc. In my country the most part of a gig is ethnic music, at least 50%. There are bands that don't sing at all ethnic music, but only covers! Genos was not made only for UK, or only for Germany, or only for USA. Because, if so, they would not have been sold it on all the world countries! So, the needs are different from country to country, from player to player.
IMHO, Alex's opinion or impression is a pessimistic opinion, and I think (it's my opinion, and I'm sorry if it bothers) is quite limited music type player! Genos has a much better sound than any PSR keyboards (I don't say PSR are bad keyboards, but only limited comparing to Genos), much much more possibilities.

But I have one defining condition to buy a keyboard/arranger: If you don't have time to explore, or your needs does not intersects with this keyboard, because you regularly use only 20-30 percent of it's power, and can be done by a old keyboard too, don't bother to buy it! Search for a keyboard that can manage only your needs.
But if it is at least one IMPORTANT thing that a keyboard intersects your needs, then buy it, because will make your days easier and it rises your pleasure of singing   Don't bother to think about costs or because is black and not silver, or it has only 76 keys and not a 61 keys, too, etc... I think these are whims

Regards,
Vali

[keynote]

Thanks for sharing Ed. I agree with others here that the reason your friend liked the PSR-S670 more than the Genos was because he was already familiar the PSR series whereas the Genos is a new concept and a ground breaking product at that. And that includes the new touchscreen which in itself can take some time getting used to. Your friend would probably need several weeks to really familiarize himself with the Genos. One short demoing of the Genos just won't cut it unfortunately. He was not able to fully appreciate the full depth and breadth of what the Genos has to offer including the cutting edge sounds.

I use my Genos for mainly recording purposes and for personal enjoyment but I used to gig regularly with my previous Yamaha keyboards including the Motif, PSR and Tyros series. I would put the Genos on the same level as the Yamaha Montage as far as quality and complexity. But once you become familiar with them they really are a blast to play whether on stage at home or in the studio. I'm still learning new things about my Genos and I've had mine for about 9 months now. The PSR series are the easiest to learn on especially when you first start out on arrangers. I started out on an inexpensive Casio many years ago and then graduated to the Yamaha PSR series and then went to the Tyros series and now the Genos of course. Cost is another reason to consider other options and that's perhaps why your friend leaned more toward the PSR-S670 rather than the much higher priced Genos. In other words 'sticker shock' could have been a deciding factor of why he shrugged off the Genos.

Sorry for going off topic, but if I may, I'm into kind of a recording kick lately. Playing along with styles and registrations is really a blast but lately I've been recording some songs that use the Genos for instrument sounds but also include professional band vocals. Here is a new song I recorded and mixed; by the Beach Boys called "God Only Knows" which, by the way, is Sir Paul McCartney's favorite song of all time from what I understand. All the sounds are from the Genos and the vocals are by the Beach Boys. By the way, if you listen to the original song it is somewhat different than the recording I posted here. In the original song there is no piano used for the melody although there is a brief point in the song where a piano is used. In my recording the piano is the main instrument while the other sounds include a Flute section, Acoustic Bass, Strings, Brass and a Revo Drum kit.

PS: There are so many ways to appreciate and experience the Yamaha Genos and this is just one of them. Enjoy! Oh, and happy Labor Day!

God Only Knows

Mike

[mikf]

Ed
We all approach the keyboard in different ways, some people like to explore and use all the features and sounds, some lean more towards using just the minimum necessary. Typically the first way requires much more preparatory work, and an accomplished player may feel they can make great music anyway without this time investment. I suspect your friend is in this category. Over time I am sure he would gradually use more of the features, if he had a TOTL arranger, but I can empathize with him feeling he would rather just play than learn what all the buttons do.
Mike