nearly out of turmoil now

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi again Tommy

I bet just looking at your setup that your Into Moody Blues,King Crimson, Camel and Floyd
I love the 60s and 70s full of string synths and mellotrons and Inventive prog rock.
Still like the Soul, Atlantic,Stax and Mowtown. Throw In the Bluebeat and ska a well. "This train bound for Rainbow City"!!
Oh If I had a time machine,I would be off!!


All the best
John

Forget the likes of Coldplay- depressssssssssssing!

[Tommy 73]

No problem John glad to help...I will keep an eye on this thread and get you moving in the right direction... if after a few weeks you still have problems I can loan you my Sonarworks Mic (arrange some post) if one is not avalible for the free trial down load but get your gear connected up as per my drawing you should be able to control your DXR and Focal outputs via your Focusrite mixer control software as I recall (had a Focusrite a few years ago) . P.s. just check your manual to see if I have my Left and right channel's the right way round on my drawing when you reconfigure you gear ...

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Nice setup! I like the hat too😀

Thanks a lot Torril. Took some time getting a Man cave all to myself

All the best
john

[Tommy 73]

Definitely with the music im with you there john

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy
I will let you have a rest now and It Is great to talk to someone who Is interested in music.
With lots of men it Is usually Golf or Cars!!
My mate Dave always yawns If I carry on about music, but mention Grand Prix and he stands to attention!!
See you later  Alligator
I will have to play Confusion by ELO tomorrow!!


All the Best
John

[Tommy 73]

Ok John and just before I hit the sack....you will need a pair of these from your Di to your Focusrite inputs.....over and out.

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[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy
Got It

ATB
JOHN

[markstyles]

Hi Mark

The trouble now is Mark that at 67 ,I do not have another 50 years left.
I will have to get a move on

I'm 3 years ahead of you, so I hope I won't have to purchase any more speakers.. And maybe 2 computers.

I go to another site, (northern sounds)  It is primarily classical type music. (but no rule about it).  Most of the guys are our age.  My hero is this 90 year old, you posts a new great composition every few weeks.. What an inspiration.  So now I plan to get REALLY SERIOUS about composing music.  .....well..  I'll keep plodding along,  doing what I like experimenting and exploring.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Mark
I was hoping not to get any more speakers, but I am not getting along with my old Tapco S5.
Had a re-think and get something decent.
Now I know about balanced and unbalance cables  and It also looks like some of my wiring Is not perfect.
Balanced leads look like stereo leads and I have learnt that  they have a dual pupose.
There is always something else you have to buy when you make slight changes. It seems to go on forever.
Seeing tht you have worked In studios and know about sound  balancing speakers, I would like to know if getting and spl meter and using the pink noise In Cubase would be sufficient for a home studio. The feeling from others is to get Sonarworks. Quite expensive just to balance a couple of speakers and only used once In a while.
You can even get the spl meter on an Iphone and ipad. I am not sure how accurate that or is It a big deal for a home studio as I sit close to the speakers. 3x3 ft.
It Is like snakes and ladders as you get halfay up, down you slide again. I need to throw a few double sixes.

All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

 https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/beginners-guide-acoustic-treatment https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-sos-guide-monitoring-acoustic-treatment I think at the minimum you would benefit from some room treatment John with or without Sonarworks.... so perhaps for now put Sonarworks to one side and look at your room acoustics first....

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy
One more thing

When I come out of my Genos  to the Bheringer, with unbalanced jack to jack, do I then use balanced jack to jack to the focusrite??

On my previous or now setup the DXR did hum and the monitors did not.
Dont you think that the hum destroyer should be placed between the focusrite and the DXR 8's as I have instrument cable coming from the hum destroyer to DXR 8's at the moment.
What do you think about that.
The speakers will come today and I have just ordered 2 x stereo balanced leads and two balanced XLR  leads with the right connector for the Focals.
Whatever happens that should cover me. So I will have to wait till tuesday for the leads.
To start with I will use a spl meter on the ipad and pink noise from cubase to tune in and see where I go from there.

all the best
John

[Tommy 73]

Hi John...if you follow my sketch you should be ok remember after the outputs of your Di all audio flows to the Focusrite and out to your Dxr10's and Focals will be balanced...so as the Genos has no balanced audio outputs it would make good practice to put the Di where I have indicated in the diagram... it might be possible looking at your diagram you may of created a ground loop .... as for the cable's if you only have balanced jack to jack to go from the Genos to the Di then it should not be a problem as it will just operate as a unbalanced cable with out the 3rd contact in circuit..

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy

I will stick to your plan.

I sent for two  balance cables for focals and two balanced Jack to jack
That will cover me now for the balance cables to go from the behringer to the focusrite.
Sorry if I am repeating myself
So does It matter the not to have balanced cable from the Genos to the Behriinger as a balance cable will act as unbalanced and the same from Out of focusrite to DXR8's being Instrument cable at the moment. I was told you need instrument cable before the amps In the DXR's  a way back. Something to do with a hot signal I think.
Now I am not sure whether the cable from the focusrite to the DXR,s need to be Instrument cable.
I just want to get this right in my bonce!! As I will have to send for more Balanced cable otherwise.


All the Best
John

[Tommy 73]

As your Focusrite output is a balanced signal I would connect to the DXRs using the XLR input on the back and switch to line (next to that XLR thru) see image....and because the Genos is NOT balanced audio outputs it makes no difference having a balanced cable or not as the 3rd contact becomes irrelevant .... so only after the Di output you should then be using balanced cabling through out...  p.s. just checked input 2 jacks on the DXRs are NOT balanced so do as above John...

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[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi tommy
I have got that .
I do not want to annoy you, but the DXR'8s  have unbalance Inputs ,so could i use unbalance cable from the focusrite to the DXR8's???
what I am saying is do I have to make everything balanced after the Behringer as I will have to send for more cable.
Also a little question whether Instrument cable Is the thing before the DXR amps as they draw more power being Hi wattage pa speakers.??
You mention Connection on the XLR's on back of DXR 8's. Do you mean the Thru socket or mic /line. I am guessing the mic/line socket here as you say switch to line. ?? .I have been using the jack sockets with Instrument cable.
This Is like a maze here !!. My brain hurts

Apart from that I understand all of It. I am not doubting you at all, I just need to get It clear In my head.


All the best
:)John

[Tommy 73]

John you don't have to use balanced cables BUT ask your self why have Focusrite gone to the trouble to give you this feature? ... by using this method you eliminate any other possibilities of problems like ground loops or interference and sacrifice quality... I don't want to bogg you down with to much tec detail here but even my domestic hifi preamp and amps use balanced cabales which are only 1 meter long which goes against the argument that balanced cables are for long runs only which would not be strictly true ... your Genos and studio gear deserve the right connections according to the availability within your setup John .... dont cut corners for the sake of a few quid you have got this far with your nice gear so use its full potental and set the right foundation as you go along and build apon them step by step 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy

UPDATE!!!!


I have ordered another pair of XLR cables  from gear for music as they also say that once the signals are balanced from the behringer just carry on through like you said.
So all will be neat and tidy now

I only have one problem now ,my poor old back having to crawl around under my desk feeding cables through. I overstretched a ligament last time " Oh the pain"!!!
Getting rid of sciatica is not very good either!!
I am just coming out of all my aches and pains since I last lifted the Tyros 5 and put that In a box to change for the Genos. That caused groin pain and sciatica. Last November.
I was a living wreck for a while and could not walk ten paces before the back went and the Posteria hurt.
Oh well it's the Dentist in a couple of months hopefully for an all clear!!


All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

If you where closer i could put you intouch with my physio who treats olympic athletes as my back at 45 years old after a motor bike RTA 15 years ago is not the best so I know what you mean....perhaps a Jack Daniels and Dark Side of the Moon could help sooth the problem John...

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy
Now your talking, but my other half likes to keep me off whisky.
She say's you cannot lose weight drinking alcahol!! We got that cruise yet  YES!! with a drinks package!!! Another stone put back on!!
You cannot win!!
As I am 67 now It is too late. Do what I like.

Massive thanks for your help Tommy and I will keep you updated when all In place.
I will let you tear apart my first mix when I have done It and then you can critcally tell me If ok or not.
One thing Is for sure . I will never go to a Motorhead concert again with the son.
They play at 0db and a few +++'s
Your ears ring for a couple of days after that experience.
I do recommend anyone to see Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds on tour later this year..
All the best
john

[Tommy 73]

Ok John and have the DVD of Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds  love it and you can only watch it with the sound going through good HIFI ... loud...great stuff ....May be your next project on Genos ...all the best john

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy .
Funny you said that as I am putting together War of the Worlds registrations.
Got the bass guitar right, but trying to get the orchestra right. Got to make the Alien sounding bits as I like realism. Things to come.
Mr Blue Sky and Elo music is on my list to play.
Have been practicing Mr blue sky and that is best done practicing each section at a time and then playing all together.
For me It is important to finish with the real ending.
There is so much you can do with these keyboards and all time consuming.
The main thing is to get that nice tight floaty sound that cds have If produced right. That means hearing that stereo field with some quality.
I am loving retirement as the world is your oyster because you do not have to get old or notice It.  All In the    mind!! until the poor old back plays up!!!!

Another thing Tommy Is that I also had a motorbike accident at 18 years old where a farmers truck turned Into me and I went over the top of his cab and landed on my back on the curbside opposite. Lord knows how I got up and walked off.
Went to court to get this farmer done for dangerous driving and his solictors used the words and I got nervous and said something wrong and he got away with It.
They played on my nerves being so young naive. They said because It was raining could It be possible for me to waver in the road or something like that and I said anything Is possible which is a fact and before I could say Jack Robinson,that is not what happened the solicitor said case dismissed!!. Very clever.
Corrupt law we live In. I bet the farmer was a mason.
So if anyone goes to court always answer questions with a yes or no and if thay ask you to explain keep to the plan!! YES OR NO!!
That way questions asked  should be answered with the least words as words can incriminate you if not careful. Even if innocent.


All the best
john

[Tommy 73]

Yes john..."The truth is stranger than fiction"

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy

Big thanks again for your help


All the best John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy

Got the Focal Alphas tonight
Outer box and inner box damage from DPD but lucky the speakers are in another two boxes deeper.
Had a word with Gear for Music salesman about the XLR and TRS leads I need and they say they are too busy to let you purchase off them directly. They are helpful though.
I searched their site but could not find them. In the end I found them on good old Amazon. two Male XLR to TRS jacks.
I have now to wait until Friday to complete my setup.
I shall practice with headphones and read up Cubase some more.
I did find one of the power leads 3 pin plug beng right over . Must have taken brute force to do that.
The focal boxes were not damaged ,sigh.!! That tells me the plug was damaged at the factory by a wayward robot or a forklift driver who  ran over It.
All this I think Is due to employees nowadays put under so much pressure for low wages.
Thank god I had an easy life In the British  Railways, Garrards and Austin Rover/BMW. Was a Fitter/ Turner/Inspector.
Drink, Christmas Parties,the works and driving home!! . Cant do that today You get told off for throwing a rubber glove at somebody or sent to HR for expulsion.
I do think living In the 60s and 70s was the best times of the last century.
Well a few days patience now and Saturday will reveal all.

All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

Fantastic..that was quick John sounds like they have had a bump along the way...hopfuly they will work correctly?...Don't forget to allow the time recommended in the manual to run them in before any critical analysis starts and have a good read of the manual so you get the best out of them... maybe while that is all taking place I can help you spend a little bit more of your money john and get some basic room acoustic panels up in your studio/man cave...looking at your room you would benefit... check out the article links I put up earlier in this thread to give you some tips better still get the Sound On Sound team round to help with there S.O.S Readers Studio make over.. im sure after some tea and plenty of cake they would quickly get there audio engineer's brain's into Genos and your DAW etc ....hay I'm not joking drop them a line you never know John... and if you swing that one don't forget to invite me would love to meet the Sound On Sound team lol 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi tommy
I have read about the running In process about 20 hours with low frequency sounds but not too high.
20 hours in one go would annoy the life out of me. I suppose run some cds on them for an hour or two each day with the door closed and the windows!!
I am not spending anymore until satisfied with what I have got.
I do not think I need too much sound proofing .
My door will need treatment or a thick curtain that I could use when mixing.
A guy In Gear for music said If you have carpets in your room ,you do not need ceiling tiles..
Maybe some side traps and corners may help.
I really want to keep It as a normal room as much as I can In case we want to move at some point.
It's all a worry ain't It!! .
It is annoying that I will have to wait for the amazon leads which come Friday.
I have already pulled my leads out and will use the Genos for practice untill friday with the headphones.
By the way my old AKG 301 Extras  semi open back sound great with the  behringer headphone amp.
Used to use that amp at our last place a semi and watched films with two sets of headphones ,so as not to annoy the neighbours. I dug that out and was surprised at the quality and the volume. Be great If those AKG are good enough.


All the best
John

[pjd]

... get the Sound On Sound team round to help with there S.O.S Readers Studio make over.. im sure after some tea and plenty of cake they would quickly get there audio engineer's brain's into Genos and your DAW etc ....hay I'm not joking drop them a line you never know John... and if you swing that one don't forget to invite me would love to meet the Sound On Sound team lol 

If my addled brain remembers right, SOS published a letter last month looking for people who would like a studio make over. The time may be right to make a request!

-- pj

[Tommy 73]

Quote : "A guy In Gear for music said If you have carpets in your room ,you do not need ceiling tiles.." Not strictly true john this guy should know better... but i understand you don't want to stick foam pads on your wall but you could do a little d.i.y. and make some acoustic panels and hang them around your room on the walls like picture frames.. behind your moitors and your side wall's and that door etc.. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=diy+acoustic+panels&client=ms-android-tmobile-gb&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD0P-8yqDdAhXJfMAKHVdqD24Q_AUIEygD&biw=360&bih=560#ip=1

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tommy
I am In a tiwas again!!

I have the  XLR cable for the Focal Alpa 50s from berhringer to Focusrite
The right connections ,but on the side of the cable It says Microphone cable balanced.
For the DXR 8's I ordered fro Amazon with also and XLR to TRs connector and on the side It says audio cable balanced.
I have been reading you can do damamage to your equipment by putting wrong leads In.
Can you advise me what to do here as  the guy from gear for music said microphone cable is ok .
So what about the XLR audio cable to Trs coming friday.
I am not connecting anything up yet as I am not very good at electrical things.
I do not want to blow up my room!!




All the best
JOHN

[Tommy 73]

No problem John....connect the TRS jack end to the Focusrite outputs then connect the XLR end to "INPUT 1" on the DXRs also you will see a switch to the right of the "THRO OUTPUT" just under the point you have connected into "INPUT 1 XLR" put that switch to "LINE" and that should be you connected and correct ....see image..

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