Yammex, a module to expand your yamaha keyboard

[voodoo]

Yes. Only sounds.

[Kokoriz]

Yes. Only sounds.

Thank you voodoo!

[Bachus]

Bachus,

Keep in mind that YEM only supports a MSB of 063 for normal Voices and 062 for Drum Kits.  The folks who designed the Yammex sound module with support for these MSB and LSB messages.  As I mentioned above, your Motif XS will work just great but the other instruments may not because of this limitation.

Joe H

Definitely important..  this disqualifies the V3sounds Sonority XXL
I found also a module "deebach blackbox" which uses 121 and 120 as MSB..

Sadly i see no reason for yamaha to keep this MSB restriction inside Genos.
Unless they want to keep people from integrating their Genos with other brands..

[Joe H]

Bachus,

The Yamaha Analog plug-in card has 2 banks of Preset Voices.  MSB 036 - LSB 000 and MSB 036 - LSB 001.  I created dummy banks in YEM and assigned those banks using LSBs 000 and 001.

I bought a midi solutions Event Processor to remap the MSB 063 to 036 for those analog card Voices in my MU128.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm

I placed the Event Processor just before the MIDI In on the MU128 so it doesn't effect the Motif Rack SX.  You can do this for any external sound module or keyboard, but you need a Event Processor for each external instrument.  The thing is you must assign the correct LSB in YEM, because there doesn't seem to be a way to program the Event Processor remap both the MSB and LSB. (I could be wrong about that)

The software to program the Event Processor is FREE... you can download it here and check it out.  The software is portable so it doesn't have to be installed.

http://www.midisolutions.com/progtool.htm

The scripts are in the RTF format. There are example templates provided you can look at, then try creating your own to see if you can accomplish what you want.  You can write up to 10 different settings per script, as I stated above, if you want to access different external instruments using dummy expansion packs you will need a separate processor for each instrument.

A dummy expansion pack is simply a pack without wave forms. Create a new Voice pack and simply type in the Voice names for your external sound module/instrument voice bank and save.  When you install the dummy pack it will show up the same as any other expansion pack.  When you select a Voice for your external instrument, Genos will transmit the MSB  LSB and Program Change over MIDI and call up the Voice in the external instrument.

I have my Proteus sound module, Motif Rack SX, MU128, and computer all patched into an audio mixer. The audio Out is plugged into my S970 Aux In so the audio from all my sound modules and computer goes thru my S970 and can be recorded to the on-board USB audio recorder. 

So... when I choose the analog Voices for my AN card, or the Motif, I can hear all sounds though my headphones or speakers on the S970. It's perfect integration of these external instruments as if they were expansion packs.  The one limitation is the external Voices can only be used as R1 Voices.

I hope this gives you some ideas on how you can use the V3sounds Sonority XXL.

Joe H

[Bachus]

Thanks Joe..

Interesting tool that midi processor..

i did some more research on the sonorrity
Seems there isnt that much difference in the sound selection compared to the Yammex.
Whats most important to me, they have the same 2 piano's (steinway and bösendorfer) that been peaking my interest for the module for so long..

I have made a set of midi voices in yem..
I use that the controll the GSI Gemini module
Which is rather easy as it doesnt support bank changes at all and only has 128 presets.. and 2 midi channels..
So MSB and LSB have no influence on the module..
its currently my only module..


I have my Roland jupiter 80 up for sale right now and still dont know what road to walk..
Adding an 88 key for piano again.
Or sticking to just the genos, and getting the yammex for more diversity in piano sounds..
For synths, i think the ipad covers all my needs..

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Why do they not just have Yammex soundpacks for the Genos ??
Save all that hardware and all the fuss.

All the Best
John

[Bachus]

Hi
Why do they not just have Yammex soundpacks for the Genos ??
Save all that hardware and all the fuss.

All the Best
John

No, because a yamaha sound pack of 110MB costs €100, this whole hardware instrument costs €450 and comes with 4GB of samples..  its cheaper... and works just like internal sounds...  and my 3gigs are allready allmost full..

Its no fuss, but its hardware. You just hide it under your desk and never look at it again, works like internal voices..

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bachus
Are the sounds vastly different to what we already have on the Genos.
I have a raft of vst like Arturia , Korg Collection and sampletank 4.
All the Best
John

[RoyB]

Hello John

I have the version1 Yammex with my Tyros 5. It has 15,000 sound samples in its own 4GB flash memory and 770 sounds. It connects to the keyboard via a MIDI cable and you also need to connect its audio out to the keyboard audio in or to a mixer in order to hear the sounds.

One of the main benefits is that you get all these new sounds without using up the expansion memory on the keyboard. Installation via YEM does require some work in that you have to assign specific LSB values to each voice bank. Basically installtion via YEM installs very small voice 'stub' files in the keyboard expansion memory that call up the sounds in the external module. However, you don't have to install by using YEM at all, as alternatively you can just copy a set of USER VOICE data (which you can download) into your User area or onto a USB stick which you can then just simply select from your screen, and it is much simpler to do this.

As to the sounds, there are some good quality sounds amongst them that, in my opinion, improve on some of the Tyros 5 voices, and in particular I think the Yammex acoustic pianos are an improvement on the Tyros and Genos internal pianos. However, if you are very particular about playing very high quality piano sounds, there are better solutions to consider. So, you get some very good quality sounds (but there are also some duds), but probably most don't improve on what you have already in your Tyros or Genos. However, rather than considering the Yammex overall on the basis on whether its sounds are better or worse than what you already have, I think it is better considered on the basis that it offers some new sounds and a larger variety of good quality (different) sound options and variations to choose from, some of which I would say are more 'playable' than the internal keyboard equivalents.

The Yammex is best suited for live playing and you can easily assign its sounds to the right and left hand parts and adjust them as normal. However, I would say it is less suited for when you are working with MIDI recordings. Because it relies on MIDI to transmit data on MIDI channels 1 to 4,  when using it with MIDI files there is additional MIDI configuration required, and there are some limitations and concessions that you also need to be mindful of as you can only use the Yammex voices on channels (or tracks) 1 to 4 - and I find that often you need to keep reselecting them after saving the MIDI file.

So, I would say that if you are working with a DAW and MIDI recordings then it has its limitations and there are better options available thatt are better suited to that type of application.

Regards

Roy

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Roy
You are right . Expanders are better for the live situation and probably more stable than software on a stage.
For me ,i do not play out or seek stardom at 69, so the home studio is where i will stay.
The Arturia collection, and Korg collection including the Triton  and Sampletank/Syntronic is unbelievably brilliant and ample for my needs.
I used to have an old Technics KN2000 and a Yamaha fm expander TX81z and a Roland MT32 in the old days.


All the best
john

[Bachus]

Hi Bachus
Are the sounds vastly different to what we already have on the Genos.
I have a raft of vst like Arturia , Korg Collection and sampletank 4.
All the Best
John

Yes.. they add a lot...
- piano's offer a different type of piano sound, Steinway and bosendorfer, they are darker and less bright then the yamaha, they are suited for solo piano parts much more then the bright yamaha sound that works better in a mix.
- organs and accordeons, are an improvement too..
- the strings and pads offer sounds that the Genos does not have..
- same goes for the orchestral instruments, not better or worse but different..

Atleats that is what the reviews i read say...

So yes, there is a lot to look forward too..

For me just the 2 grand piano's are worth it..

Unless i decide to buy a new 88 key compagnion for my Genos.

[anotherscott]

Yesterday I made two PPF packs, one for "iGrand Piano" for iPad, and one for "iLectric Piano" for iPad. Now I can select piano and e-piano voices on my iPad easily from my Genos.

This is pretty much exactly what I'd like to do... not those particular apps, but two iPad apps.

Even after reading this thread (and related threads like the one at https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,44739.0.html ) I am vague about exactly how you did this, and exactly what the final result is.

When you say you "can can select piano and e-piano voices on my iPad easily from my Genos," -- how? Do these patches which call up iPad sounds (and silent "dummy" sounds for the internal sound engine) appear as User Voices, which you can make part of Registrations? Or are they displayed/invoked some other way?

If you have two iPad apps loaded (for now, let's just assume they are iGrand and iElectric, as you did it), it would seem that the only way you could have both apps available to be played but NOT have them always play together (or always respond in unison to a given Program Change) would be to set the two apps to receive on two different MIDI channels. But in all this conversation about entering MSB/LSB/PC, there's been no reference to being able to specify a MIDI channel to send that information on. So am I correct in thinking that the MIDI channel is determined by which Part of a Registration you load one of these iPad sounds into? In that case, assuming you are using the default MIDI assignments (e.g. Right 1, 2, and 3 transmit on MIDI channels 1, 2, and 3 respectively), then if you had (for example) iGrand set to respond on MIDI channel 2 and iElectric set to respond on MIDI channel 3, then your iGrand sounds would only be usable if you loaded them into "Right 2" and your iLectric sounds would only be usable if you loaded them into Right 3," is that how you do it?

If the sound module listens to bank numbers, it is getting interesting, since user voices in YEM are bound to MSB 063, while the LSB is assignable. But I have no iPad sound program that listens to bank numbers, so I did not try to solve this.

If an iPad app has no more than 128 recallable presets, then bank numbers don't matter. If an app has more then than, then there will be an MSB and an LSB (in addition to the Program Change parameter). It sounds like, if you're lucky, the MSB for the sound you want in that case will be 063... but if it's not (and you want to use YEM which fixes the MSB at 063), there are iPad apps that can receive the fixed 063 MSB the Genos would be sending and convert it to the number you want it to be, before passing it along to your app of choice (iLectric or whatever). So that may not be too problematic.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I still say combine the Genos with VST, "Skies the limit"!!

[anotherscott]

I still sas combine the Genos with VST, "Skies the limit"!!

Yes, that's basically what I'm talking about trying to do. It would be the same process for a pair of iPad apps as it would be for, say, a pair of VSTs running on a Surface Pro. Either way, then, the question is how easily you can configure the Genos to play specified external (iOS or VST) sounds at will, and mix-and-match those sounds with the internal Genos sounds in a Registration.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Scott

Using vst and the Genos great for recording.
If i was a live player, i would go for a Genos and a keyboard sample player like the Modex7.
I would say to Bachus that a Modex 7 or 8 would be better than the Yamex.
You could then use lots of samples from Sample Robot to expand any sound.
Just rip vst's.


All the best
John