The DSP types in YEM are so limited

alvinc · March 22, 2018, 05:11:33 AM

Guys, I find out the DSP types in YEM are so limited. For instance, there are a lot of nice delay effects on-board but in YEM there are only several we could choose for the custom voices. Why is that? Could we use more on YEM?

Joe H · March 22, 2018, 07:02:50 AM

I am disappointed that we don't have a greater selection of the DSPs in YEM. I think Yamaha do not want us to be able to create great sounding Voices as they do. Just the same as Yamaha do not give us style creator software. This limits our ability to make great styles too.

Maybe Yamaha does not get that some arranger owners want to be creative... they think everyone just wants to sit and play.

Joe H

Pino · March 22, 2018, 08:12:06 AM

YES

Not my thing but it seems like most people just want to play,

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alvinc · March 22, 2018, 08:23:39 AM

Well I guess then we can only do the adjustments after installation by editing the voice.
Besides DSP, reverb and chorus types could not be assigned on YEM, either.
Joe, for styles I think Cubase+StyleMagic YA would be enough for me at the moment. You can make very high quality styles out of them so I don't expect any other style software from YAMAHA official now....and more importantly like you said, they won't offer either.

Joe H · March 22, 2018, 04:53:26 PM

Quote from: Pino on March 22, 2018, 08:12:06 AM
YES

Not my thing but it seems like most people just want to play,

Well if that's the case why do Yamaha implement and publish a Data List Book with all those System Exclusive Data Formats? Why bother if MOST people don't even read them let alone know how to use them?

You would be surprised at just how much technical skill is required for a professional sounding finished product that we listen to in just about any recorded piece of music.

Joe H

pjd · March 22, 2018, 06:03:20 PM

Quote from: alvinc on March 22, 2018, 08:23:39 AM
Well I guess then we can only do the adjustments after installation by editing the voice.

Conspiracy theories aside,

I think this is intentional.

The set of DSP effects in YEM is limited to the core group of effects which should be implemented in all mid- and upper- arranger workstations. Yamaha's engineers expect the sound designer to create a VCE file on the target keyboard which customizes the sound for a particular platform.

After digging through VCE files on S950 and Genos, the VCE file first selects the voice (MSB/LSB/PC) and then proceeds to customize the living heck out of the basic voice, including all of the DSP effects.

It kind of makes sense (in a computer science-y way) to keep YEM "universal" and to use the VCE files to target for a particular platform (i.e., specific model of arranger).

All the best -- pj

Joe H · March 22, 2018, 06:22:51 PM

pj,

Keep in mind that YEM only supports a few keyboard models. It's obvious that Yamaha have more elaborate software for creating Preset Voices. While we can create the same level of User Voices with VOICE SET. I think we should have access to all DSP Types in YEM. It wouldn't be that difficult (in programming) to create a different set of DSP Tables in YEM so when we select our instrument, only the DSPs for that instrument are displayed.

Joe H

pjd · March 22, 2018, 07:21:44 PM

Hi Joe --

I think it comes down to their cost. Why spend development time on YEM when end users can customize a voice through the VOICE SET feature of their keyboard?

I'd rather see Yamaha enhance YEM to include essential features that it are missing, namely, setting the note range for each element and displaying more information about waveforms. People also want to create Super Articulation voices and Mega Voices via YEM.

All the best -- pj

Joe H · March 22, 2018, 10:26:00 PM

pj,

Well I'm working on about 400 new synth Voices for myself and maybe will sell one day. It would be nice to have to the option of assigning any DSP in the box to my Voices so when they are installed in the instrument... I don't have to assign (reassign) the DSPs I would have liked to have programmed in the YEM software.

Joe H

Joe H · March 22, 2018, 10:30:43 PM

SA, SA2 and Mega Voices or far too complicated for the average user to attempt. Yamaha does such a good job on these that they make it look easy. Unless you have years of programming experience, you won't get very good results with those special Voices.

Just programming my 400 synth Voices to be 100% compatible with the XG standard is a lot of work.

Regards,
Joe H

alvinc · March 23, 2018, 04:25:15 AM

Hi pj,

I understand the 'universal' approach. But even to the cheapest keyboard model that YEM supports---PSR-S670, there are a lot of DSPs missing. Since more professional keyboards like S770 S970 Tyros5 Genos have all the DSPs that S670 has, I think at least they could just support all the DSPs on S670(basic keyboard) instead of providing so limited choices.
For real instrument voices, the current DSPs might be enough since we don't need too many effects other than reverb or a simple delay. Yet for synth voices, we really don't have many choices at the moment on YEM.

alvinc · March 23, 2018, 04:35:22 AM

Hi Joe,

That is my concern too. I just want everyone will get the voices with the best DSP I assign after installation, instead of having to assign all again.

voodoo · April 27, 2018, 10:28:48 AM

Quote from: alvinc on March 22, 2018, 08:23:39 AM
Well I guess then we can only do the adjustments after installation by editing the voice.

Yes, but we cannot add this edited voice back to the installation pack. We cannot add *.vce files to YEM projects. So we always need a PPF/PPI to install our wave forms, and keep the edited voice files separately in user drive or USB. This workflow is not optimal.

Uli

Joe H · April 27, 2018, 06:40:42 PM

Quote from: voodoo on April 27, 2018, 10:28:48 AM
Yes, but we cannot add this edited voice back to the installation pack. We cannot add *.vce files to YEM projects. So we always need a PPF/PPI to install our wave forms, and keep the edited voice files separately in user drive or USB. This workflow is not optimal.

Uli

It's my observation that the COMMON parameters in YEM are the Voice Set parameters. In other words, when YEM compiles the pack(s) for installation, those COMMON parameters are converted into a Voice Set file. If this is true then we have Voice Set in YEM. We should not have to program our custom Voices twice. It seems to me that Voice Set allows us to tweak the Preset Voices to our liking or create an "alternate" EP or Synth Voice if we wish.

Joe H

Styles2psr · April 28, 2018, 12:33:16 AM

Quote from: Joe H on April 27, 2018, 06:40:42 PM
It's my observation that the COMMON parameters in YEM are the Voice Set parameters. In other words, when YEM compiles the pack(s) for installation, those COMMON parameters are converted into a Voice Set file. If this is true then we have Voice Set in YEM. We should not have to program our custom Voices twice. It seems to me that Voice Set allows us to tweak the Preset Voices to our liking or create an "alternate" EP or Synth Voice if we wish.

Joe H

That is correct Joe H, if you have set the DSP for each custom sound in YEM once, there is no need to change it again in the keyboard.
You've got a few options to shape the sound in YEM, but not everyone has the knowledge how to do it.

Regards, Jan.

alvinc · May 07, 2018, 10:29:26 AM

Quote from: voodoo on April 27, 2018, 10:28:48 AM
Yes, but we cannot add this edited voice back to the installation pack. We cannot add *.vce files to YEM projects. So we always need a PPF/PPI to install our wave forms, and keep the edited voice files separately in user drive or USB. This workflow is not optimal.

Uli

Right....VCE file cannot be loaded into pack...
So we have to save it as user file in the instrument.

Joe H · May 07, 2018, 04:29:46 PM

Yamaha should give us an update for YEM that includes a full list of the DSPs and arpeggios (for those keyboards that have arps) so we can program our custom Voices as good as Yamaha does.

Joe H

alvinc · May 09, 2018, 12:06:39 PM

You are right, Joe. Hope someday the update will give us a surprise.

emmaco · February 26, 2021, 04:16:16 AM

When you create a new voice in YEM, don't choose « create normal voice » but select « create Genos custom voice ».
Edit voice and then delete if you want the Genos voices.
Go to effect and you'll see that there are much more effects available...

gabrielschuck · January 09, 2022, 03:37:10 AM

hello,
Resuscitating the topic....
I can normally add dsps to the contents of the packs I create. One thing I noticed is that the result when I'm playing on the keyboard is a little different compared to the software, for example: Reverb dept volume louder than in the software.
I can't exaggerate too much.
I don't know if it would be feasible for me to constantly format flash memory to test my packs on the keyboard because:
1. I don't have the Yamaha adapter.
2. Even if I had, I don't know if I could comfortably use it with accessibility. I'm a blind user, so I'd almost certainly need a sighted person to configure the keyboard to connect to my network.
Anyway... I haven't even arrived at the part of creating the rex and RX2 files, which would need another software like Recycle for that. I've been testing it and doesn't seem to be very accessible.
I say that this has been a big challenge for me, but I am one of those people who, even with difficulties, like to explore all possibilities.
One day I still want to have my Tyros5 all personalized and with my identity.