PSR-E453 vs PSR-EW400 piano sound

[dogendo]

Hello

I hesitate between the PSR-E453 and the PSR-EW400 (or the most recent PSR-E463  PSR-EW410).
I have a preference for the E453 because I'm looking for a compact instrument and I do not need extra keys or more powerfull amp as i play with an external stéreo amp. But I want a good piano sound.
So, is the piano sound of the PSR-EW400 significantly better than the PSR-E453 ? ; is the piano from the PSR-E453 enough for jazz, bossa and small classical pieces ?.

Thank you in advance for your answers

Mike

[AnupamEnosh]

I believe there is little difference between the piano samples of E453 and EW400, but no doubt EW400 has got more keys; it will suit your preference. Still it would be better if you visit a store nearby, and test both of them.

[pjd]

Hi --

If you take a look at the Data List PDF for the PSR-E453 and EW400, the acoustic piano is the first voice in the Voice List.

The EW400 Grand Piano voice is a Live! voice, meaning that it is stereo. The E453 voice is mono. Other than that, there is little difference between the two voices.

Hope this helps -- pj

[AnupamEnosh]

The EW400 Grand Piano voice is a Live! voice, meaning that it is stereo. The E453 voice is mono. Other than that, there is little difference between the two voices.

Both are stereo, as much I am informed on these two boards. Live! is just a gimmick, and isn't even close to Acoustic Piano, that is present on PSR-S series, but resembles to the regular Grand Piano patch available on all E-series boards, with some parameter/s tweaked. There might be some difference in panning of voice on Left/Right, still it is more or less the same.

[dogendo]

Thank you for your answers

If there is no real difference in piano sound I will take the PSR-E453/463

Micke

[arvacon]

I have the  psr-e453 and I was not very impressed from the piano sound at all. By default the sound feels muddy, soft and low volume. After I played a little with the settings, I have make it to sound much better, so now it is more pleasant at my ears. 
I did the following changes:

-Cutoff from the live knobs: 1/3 turn to the right
-Master EQ: Boost
-Chorus: Off
-Reverb: Plate1
-Master volume: 127
-Touch response: Medium

Then I saved the changes to one of the registration memories, so now I use this only as my piano voice.

Just a notice. You mentioned that you prefer to connecting the keyboard with external amplifier. The e453 has only 1 audio out that it is also headphones output, so you will can't use the internal speakers as monitors because they stop working if you connect something in the output.
I have noticed also that it produce a little hiss noise when you wearing headsets, so I guess this will be annoying at an amplifier too. I haven't use an amplifier to check how bad this can be, but when I am wearing headset, it annoys me.

[AnupamEnosh]

On a real piano, you get an obvious difference in sound when you strike the keys sharply as opposed to striking them softly.  When striking them softly, you get a subdued sound, but when striking them sharply, you get a bit of a "bark" or "twang", especially on the lower to mid-range notes - like any other stringed instrument, when the strings are rapped or plucked sharply with significant force.  This phenomenon can be simulated on the piano voices of electronic keyboards with a technique known as velocity switching, and is used on the higher quality piano voices.  On the non-Live! piano voices this is done with dual-strike velocity switching, and employs two entirely separate wave samples.  One for soft strike and one for hard strike.  When the key strike velocity exceeds a certain value, the hard strike wave sample is used instead of the soft strike wave sample, and adds an element of realism to the sound not present in single strike technology.  So, now enter the Yamaha Live! Grand sound.  It raises the ante on realism by adding an intermediate strike velocity and wave sample, and is known as triple strike technology, and results in soft, medium, and hard response dynamics, but the improvement does not end there.  All three of the wave samples are of higher quality than those used in single and dual strike technology.  So the overall improvements are two fold.  Granted, this still does not bring the EW-4XX Live! Grand sound up to the level of that of a $2000+ model, but it is certainly at step up from the other piano voices of the PSR-E models.

There is some different mechanical system in EW-400 for its velocity strike response, as its keybed is somewhat different from E453, but the demo videos show pretty minute difference in the actual sample engaged, maybe they have added one extra wave sample onto the existing voice, that makes it sound like a harsh gong (my inner feeling after listening to it), but that is never a different voice from the actual Grand Piano sample. As EW-400 comes with line level outputs, so obviously it would sound better when amplified, when compared to E453, as it lacks them.
Yamaha already used this Live Grand Piano Voice in almost a decade old discontinued PSR-E model, which had 61keys max. (I forgot the actual model number).

[AnupamEnosh]

I have noticed also that it produce a little hiss noise when you wearing headsets, so I guess this will be annoying at an amplifier too. I haven't use an amplifier to check how bad this can be, but when I am wearing headset, it annoys me.

That popping sound on unplugging/plugging a jack has been the greatest cringe for me on stage; if on turned up volumes, that can literally damage the diaphragm of speakers, or your ears, depends upon the one having greater survival power 😛

I have the psr-e453 and I was not very impressed from the piano sound at all. By default the sound feels muddy, soft and low volume.

It is because the Grand Piano sample of PSR-E models are actually Bright Piano samples, with little modification in cutoff parameter.

[SeaGtGruff]

If the choice is between the PSR-E453 or the PSR-EW400, I would go with the PSR-EW400 due to it costing only a little bit more than the PSR-E453 at its current discounted price. I actually got mine for a little bit less than the PSR-E453 while it was on sale from Guitar Center.

On the other hand, if the choice were between the PSR-E463 or the PSR-EW410, I would still prefer the PSR-EW410 for its wider keyboard, greater amplification, and proper audio outputs, although the greater difference in price would likely make me want to lean toward the PSR-E463.

[vbdx66]

Hello to all,

I learned classical piano for a few years before switching to keyboard and digital piano.

I got the PSR E433, which has the same piano voice as the PSR E453, then the DGX 640, which has the same Live! Piano as the EW 400.

Apart from the amplification, which is of course much better in the DGX 640 than on the PSR E433 or 453, and which is also better on the EW 400, when you are listening to the voices through a decent pair of headphones, I find that the Live piano was really way better than the regular grand Piano voice of the PSR E4xx. If you need a cheap portable keyboard with many keys and a decent piano sound, definitely go for the EW 400.

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Vinciane.

[arvacon]

That popping sound on unplugging/plugging a jack has been the greatest cringe for me on stage; if on turned up volumes, that can literally damage the diaphragm of speakers, or your ears, depends upon the one having greater survival power

Nop, I don't speak about the popping sound here, as this is result of unplugging the cables without turn your volume down. I am talking about a hiss noise that you can hear when you are using headset, at the silent moments that there is no sound from the instrument. It reminds me the cassette players that when the song was ending, at silent you was hearing that hiss noise always.

I was wondering, is there any way to correct this problem?

It is because the Grand Piano sample of PSR-E models are actually Bright Piano samples, with little modification in cutoff parameter.

It seems you have right here, because when you change the cutoff a lot at grand piano voice, it becomes similar to bright piano indeed.

[AnupamEnosh]

I am talking about a hiss noise that you can hear when you are using headset, at the silent moments that there is no sound from the instrument. It reminds me the cassette players that when the song was ending, at silent you was hearing that hiss noise always.

I was wondering, is there any way to correct this problem?

Though I never faced any such issue, but as it seems to be, light source, magnetic field areas, television affect sound waves and produce that hiss sound in Radio sets, walkietalkies etc. I assume your instrument is too close to such things, you may try shifting it to a different location from the existing one.
Hope it helps.

[arvacon]

Nop, there is nothing around that it can interfere with the device.
I believe this noise comes from the preamplifier for the headset, so as the audio output is common for headset and other uses, it is not crystal clear as it is a dedicated non amplified audio output.
I use ear-pads by the way, so this is more noticeable than at a headset I guess.

[AnupamEnosh]

Sir have you tried checking the noise while powering your instrument on batteries ? Because AC power supply might also cause irregularities in audio output.

[arvacon]

Sir have you tried checking the noise while powering your instrument on batteries ? Because AC power supply might also cause irregularities in audio output.

No, but that's a good idea to check this.

[dogendo]


I did not think to elicit so many answers in this post. Where I live (south France) the psr-ew400 is no longer available, so it is difficult to compare

I will doubtless wait a few months for the release of the new models 463/410, hoping that they will be available in stores in my region for a side-by-side sound comparison.

Thank you all 

Best regards

Mike

[panos]

Nice post Roy.
The sounds at the video I believe that have been equalized afterwards on an a pc, note to note,
but anyway... it is a good presantation and a very good instrument.
Whatever you choose Mike they are both nice keyboards.

[SciNote]

Sometimes a hiss in the audio signal can indicate an impedance mismatch.  So, you could try a different pair of headphones to see if you get the same sound, though that is just a guess.  If your headphones have a volume or level control, try turning down the level on the headphones and then turning up the volume of the keyboard.

Similarly, if you get the hiss when using an amp, or when hooking the keyboard up to a computer to record to a DAW, you can try adjusting the levels.  When I first started recording to a DAW, I had a constant hiss in the background, and I just attributed it to a low-quality analog-to-digital converter.  I tried all sorts of settings on my DAW (Audacity) to try to eliminate the hiss, and while these efforts were somewhat successful, they did not get rid of all of the hiss, and would often alter the actual sound of the music somewhat.

Then, when doing some internet research, I stumbled on the idea to adjust the levels.  I turned the input level on my computer down, and then turned the volume of my keyboard up, making sure not to go "into the red" on the level meters, and the hiss was gone.

[arvacon]

Sometimes a hiss in the audio signal can indicate an impedance mismatch.  So, you could try a different pair of headphones to see if you get the same sound, though that is just a guess.  If your headphones have a volume or level control, try turning down the level on the headphones and then turning up the volume of the keyboard..

I was using the ipod's nano 6th gen small earpads until now (not the in-ear ones, just classical ones), so the sound was loud enough (as it should be), so the hiss noise was noticeable. To not be misunderstood, it is not something tragic, you just hear it when everything is quiet and although at the beginning you will not pay attention to it, after some time of wearing the earpads, you will notice it and it will start annoy you.

I followed your suggestion and I tried a Sony headset with the big earpads this time, but as the sound is not that loud anymore (I would say with these ones it is half loud than with the ipod earpads), now I can't hear the noise anymore.



Ps: I don't have any problem with the sound at the build in speakers, they are crystal clear and quiet.

[SeaGtGruff]

If you switch back and forth between the speakers and headphones, remember to change the Master EQ setting to get the best sound.

[arvacon]

If you switch back and forth between the speakers and headphones, remember to change the Master EQ setting to get the best sound.

Good idea, that's something I hadn't thing about.