Genos better than T5? Points from zero to ten please...

[Will49]

Hi Will Happy new year !
I thought it helps you to understand what I consider as a major or minor improvement...

Hi Soundphase, Happy New Year to you too! What you did was more than I had expected, and you understood exactly what I was after! And not only did you give me your total score of how much of an improvement (for you) Genos is over the T5... you also provided a detailed account of how you arrived at your total score! The purpose of this thread was meant ONLY to compare T5 and Genos (and not for discussing just one or the other on their own). However, it seems to me that one or two other posters have given a score based on how good they feel about Genos on its own (i.e. those who've given it points that are in the region of 9.99 and a full 10)! Therefore (as this thread is all about the 'comparison' of two items), seeing scores of 10 for Genos would seem to put the already fabulous T5 at a ZERO! 

Kind regards,
Will

[DavidB]

I apologise if my opinion isn't valid, as I never owned a T5. I had a T2 and then a T4. However, if my score over a T4 counts then I give the Genos 1/10.

I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.

I give Genos a 1/10 improvement over a T4 because some voices are the best I've heard (Kino strings, Flugelhorn etc.). The majority of voices however are no better or in some cases worse than the T4 and so I assume the T5. Unless you spend more money on a decent speaker set then the Genos completely lacks in body and there is very little warmth to it. It was clearly designed to appeal to the younger market and so perhaps in that respect, it's an improvement, but from my wants and perspective it gets a mere 1/10.

I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference... which in your comparison would give a score of 0/10 I believe. However, I am making allowance in my score for a few improved voices and the REVO drums.

Sorry if this isn't valid as I'm comparing it to a T4.

Regards,

[Will49]

Hi Will, It would help a little if we knew what you want to do with the KB and how you use it.

Hi Eric, I'm a non-gigging/home musician. My tastes in music are Ballroom, Country, Latin etc., Big band/light Jazz and anything of the 'easy listening' nature... and certainly NOT the modern, electronic stuff I'm afraid! I make a lot of use of my T5/76's Organ World and Ensemble features...which I think are superb!

Kind regards,
Will

[Will49]

I apologise if my opinion isn't valid, as I never owned a T5. I had a T2 and then a T4. However, if my score over a T4 counts then I give the Genos 1/10.
I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.
I give Genos a 1/10 improvement over a T4 because some voices are the best I've heard (Kino strings, Flugelhorn etc.). The majority of voices however are no better or in some cases worse than the T4 and so I assume the T5. Unless you spend more money on a decent speaker set then the Genos completely lacks in body and there is very little warmth to it. It was clearly designed to appeal to the younger market and so perhaps in that respect, it's an improvement, but from my wants and perspective it gets a mere 1/10.
I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference... which in your comparison would give a score of 0/10 I believe. However, I am making allowance in my score for a few improved voices and the REVO drums.

Sorry if this isn't valid as I'm comparing it to a T4.

Hi DavidB, Absolutely no apology needed at all. I also had a T4, and there is a lot of that model still in the T5 (which isn't a bad thing where I'm concerned) so, yes, your opinion is considered valid by me. I also thank you for being so frank and completely open with your views. I think you are correct with your statement that some people (but obviously not all) may be a little in denial as a result of what they spent and/or are too afraid to give Genos a lowly score in the face of such formidable opposition?! Your other statement, i.e. that Genos seems to have been designed/aimed for the younger market is something I suspected way back when I saw the first few glimpses of Genos in those very early videos. I would have no use for such features I'm afraid! Many thanks again for such a candid response!

Best wishes, and a Happy New Year,
Will

[gdc]

I had a T5 and sold it to buy the Genos. If you had asked me to rate it a week ago, when I had only had it for a few days, it would have got 5 out of 10. Since then I have tweaked the sound in the mixer and I am playing through a Yamaha Stagepas 500 which I use for gigging and the difference is amazing. Now I rate it 9 out of 10. The sounds are much more alive than on the T5 and the rhythms seem more natural. There is a crispness which was missing on the T5. I still have more to learn about the Genos as I found it quite different from the T5, especially dealing with the Playlist. I'm getting there bit by bit, though. I also appreciate that it's lighter than my T5-76 as I'm not getting any younger.
Cheers,
Graeme

[Jørgen]

...
However, it seems to me that one or two other posters have given a score based on how good they feel about Genos on its own (i.e. those who've given it points that are in the region of 9.99 and a full 10)!
...

Hi

Guess they forgot to turn off the "Auto-Reply" function... 

Jørgen

[mus07]

Maybe I have not fully understood your meaning,but perhaps you would be best to read the Genos reference manual,it explains fully all the chord fingering modes.

Hi Alan - thanks very much for responding. I was referring to intelligent fingering (not the simple "mechanical" single fingered mode)
Examples:
play "C" or "C & E" or "C & E & G" to play a full Cmaj style accompaniment.
play "C & Eb" or "C & Eb & G" to play a full Cm style accompaniment
etc..etc..
The manuals (Tyros too) refer to AI fingering as means to "sort of" do this but it definitely doesn't work quite that way - I don't believe the Genos is different.
I hear you say "...just learn your triads and all will be fine..."  and you'd be right but I am not a good fast keyboard player and sometimes I like to take advantage of a quick (lazy) means of changing chords which has mostly been available on Roland, Ketron and Korg arrangers.

Thanks again for your reply.

Pete

APOLOGIES - I went a bit off topic here

[EileenL]

Hi Will;
  I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero. It is still a very good keyboard in all respects. Genos how ever in some respects is a different animal and has a lot of improvements on it. OTS being one. It is now a lot better balanced and useable. The styles seem more realistic and voicing much improved. The play list is very good and what people have been asking for for a very long time. I am very pleased I changed mine but we all go for what suits us best. Just enjoy making music on what ever you have.

[pjd]

I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero.

Amen! I'm migrating to Genos from S950, so I have refrained from giving any kind of rating vs. the Tyros 5. Yes, I have played a T5 although I do not own one.

Quite a few of the Genos voices that I prefer were introduced in Tyros 5. T5 is a very respectable, professional instrument!

All the best in the new year -- pj

[Del 123]

Hi Will,

Is the Genos better than a TS? Yes ...by far! (And I am not on 'auto reply function'). The two keyboards are different in many ways, I didn't want or expect the Genos to emulate the T5, the Genos is a different board and getting even better the more I am getting familiar with it. I like the live controlls, assignable buttons ( chord tutor is great by the way!) and the more modern sounds but the deal breaker for me is the feel of the key bed!!! I thought the T5 keyboard was really good but the Genos is undoubtably better, seemingly better finger friction, and easier on the fingers when switching from piano to organ to synths sounds There are many other satisfactory points which wins over the T5 but I don't want to bore everyone on this thread so I will stop here.

To be honest my transition from my T5 to a new Genos was easy for me...mainly because I always part exchange all my instruments. I guess if I had to pay full price for a Genos - this would have been too pricey and reluctantly I would have kept to my T5 and maybe bought a Genos at later date. However when I had my T5 (for about 2.5 years) sometimes I got a wee bit bored with it and just switched it off almost immediately after turning it on .. I don't know why! I was really never happy with the silver colour and the overall size of it ..but don't get me wrong ..still a great KB. At the time I found myself trying  other keyboards at local music stores. I was however quite stricken by the Kronos 2 88 but when I tried one out this last summer ..the keybed just felt awful so I retreated back to my T5. Then the Genos came along ..the rest is history.

One very important point I have to make (in my opinion) is to release the full sound potential of the Genos - consider going for better speakers and not the Genos set ( I had a Genos set with the px), I have HS5 monitors along with the HS7 sub woofer, I don't hear the sound ..I feel it! And when my wife starts shouting at me to from another room downstairs..I guess she can hear and feel it too The Yamaha HS monitor speakers will stay with me for a long time and should I upgrade to a Genos 2 ..or maybe G3 .. maybe  miss the G2 out all together - my expenditure on speakers will work out cheaper in the long run.

My score is 8 out of 10. I am really not surfing the Yamaha Genos bandwagon..I am really honestly excited about the Genos and the sounds are the best I have ever heard ..and I have had many keyboards through my life.

All the best Will,  I know you will enjoy your T576 at this time.

Happy new year to all.

Regards
Darren

[Mark Z.]

Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ......

10 points for my Genos .

And yes .... I had a Tyros 5 , a superior instrument already  !

MarkZ.

[Jørgen]

Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ......

10 points for my Genos .

And yes .... I had a Tyros 5 , a superior instrument already  !

MarkZ.

Hi

It would be nice if you could give a more detailed description of how you have come to your assessment. 

Jørgen

[Will49]

Listen very carefully , I say it just one more time ...... 10 points for my Genos . And yes .... I had a Tyros 5

Hi MarkZ, Afraid you still haven't got the gist of what this topic is all about! You say that you now have a Genos, and that you're giving it 10 out of 10. You also say that you previously had a T5... but what you don't say how many points you think the T5 was worth if you compare it to your Genos!! So I shall say this one more time too... this thread is about comparing the two arrangers, and preferably mark them BOTH with a score of anything from zero to 10! 

Regards,
Will

[stephenm52]

Stephen
Just an additional resource for you to try.  Since You mentioned that you have Songbook. You can create playlists in SongBook+ instead of the Genos.   It is extremely easy to create and then move songs around in any order you want.    Then, the playlist is controlled from the iPad and automatically calls the corresponding registration.

You probably are ok with what you are doing.  Just to give you another alternative if desired.

thanks

Al thanks for what is a great idea.      I am using Songbook Plus now and will use your suggestion.   Just as a side note the Songbook I wrote about was the one on the Korg arrangers, they are Korg's equivalent of Yamaha registrations.

[Will49]

I was really never happy with the silver colour and the overall size of it ..but don't get me wrong ..still a great KB.
My score is 8 out of 10. All the best Will, I know you will enjoy your T576 at this time. Happy new year to all.

Hi Darren, Many thanks for your response...a lot of what you said made very interesting reading. But I've included above only a couple of quotes from your response... the first being about the colour and size of T5. It's a funny old world isn't it! For me, silver is my preference for an arranger... doesn't show tiny bits of dust as much as black. And as a home player, I quite like the fact that T5/76 is a bit on the large size as (for me, personally) bigger is better! I reckon the bigger an instrument is, the less chance there is for it to be mistaken (by those who don't know better) for something that belongs in the 'toy world' of keyboards!  Thanks for including your overall points score for Genos. And, yes, I am really enjoying my T5/76 thanks.

Happy New Year,
Will

[Will49]

Hi Will; I certainly would not put Tyros 5 at Zero. It is still a very good keyboard in all respects. Genos how ever in some respects is a different animal and has a lot of improvements on it. OTS being one. It is now a lot better balanced and useable. The styles seem more realistic and voicing much improved. The play list is very good and what people have been asking for for a very long time. I am very pleased I changed mine but we all go for what suits us best. Just enjoy making music on what ever you have.

Hi Eileen, Now this is more like the response I'm after. You already said previously that, for you, Genos gets a score of 10 out of 10, and now you have explained some of the areas where you feel the most improvements over Tyros 5 are. I'm pleased to see that you also say that T5 is "still a very good keyboard in all respects". And as for your advice to just enjoy making music on whatever I have, well, I certainly am enjoying doing exactly that on my T5/76... so much so that I was intrigued as regards how much better Genos could possibly be than a T5 - hence this very thread! Thanks Eileen... nice to see you are enjoying your Genos! 

Best wishes,
Will

[Jørgen]

...
"still a very good keyboard in all respects"
...

Hi Will

FYI:
Here is Eileens Tyros 5 judgement from 23. November 2013: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,22803.msg161780.html#msg161780

Jørgen

[Joe H]

Hi Will

FYI:
Here is Eileens Tyros 5 judgement from 23. November 2013: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,22803.msg161780.html#msg161780

Jørgen

It really helps to have "critical thinking skills"... now doesn't it?



Joe H

[DerekA]

Very interesting link Jorgen ... The T4/T5 debates were eerily similar to the T5/Genos ones we're now seeing ...

[jwyvern]

Will, I think different people are interpreting your rules differently and some of the rankings being given are apples versus oranges. People who state Genos is worth a ten seem to readily admit Ty5 is still a formidable keyboard, so really they should be subtracting their honest ranking of Ty5 from the 10 to comply with your request. And probably get a more realistic (for you) result. As it stands it's all very confusing .
John

[zionip]

It really depends on how the Genos owners perceive the scale of improvement of Genos compared to Tyros5.

0    1     2     3    4   . . .  X       . . .    . . .    . . .   Y  10   <- Relative scale of performance, with X for T5, and Y for Genos?
                                     0   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10   <- Relative scale of improvement, with Tyros 5 as base value 0.
                                    T5                                 Genos
                                  Great                               Greater
Thanks,
Paul

[alans]

Hi Will

I presume you are adding up the scores for Genos and will arrive at an average score eventually,are you surprised at the answers given or no ?

I think you are asking a very subjective question,given you have had scores from 1 to 10 ! 😀

Members are bound to give a high score if they like and enjoy playing the Genos,even if they think it is not a large improvement over the T5.
How many replies are you aiming for to arrive at an average,if that is your intention?

Alan

[EileenL]

Well Jorgen,
  Each Yamaha keyboard I have had has had large improvments on it so nothing new there. I will say that Ensemlbe really dose sound a lot better on Genos and also Organ World which is now incorperated in the organ voices.

[Jørgen]

Well Eileen

Yes, I totally agree that all new models have improvements. What I'm looking for is: What do you judge Tyros 5 to today on a scale from 1 to 10?

In November 2013, Tyros 5 was "mind blowing" - your wording -, which must be 10 on the 2013 scale.

Tyros 5 can not be judged to 10 today if Genos is judged to 10 and Genos is considered to be better than Tyros 5.

Now, is Tyros 5 = 8 (Genos is 25% better than Tyros 5)
or is Tyros 5 = 6.66 (Genos is 50% better than Tyros 5)
or is Tyros 5 = 5 (Genos is 100% better than Tyros 5)

I think it's also the comparison that Will calls for.

Jørgen

[Spirit of the old South]

Genos is all most perfect. So that´s a 9.
Tyros 5 is still a very good instrument. So that´s a 7.

And its expected that there will be a few content patches in the future.
So the Genos will become even more complete.

Almost every little bit of the Tyros 5 got improved with the Genos.

[XeeniX]

Very interesting link Jorgen ... The T4/T5 debates were eerily similar to the T5/Genos ones we're now seeing ...

Indeed, deja vu. And as far as I'm concerned the same goes for the Yamaha demo's... "simply amaaaaaaazing".

regards,
Peter

[Mark Z.]

Tyros 5 is still an superior Arranger but the Genos offers me more ;

New and better Drums and what is the most important here
the better and more easy Drum Edit .

The far more easy Style Assembly and once more important here
the Drum Edit .

The new Drums and Drum Edit makes very much possible for the
MultiPads  , specally for making your own MultiPads .

The new MultiPads .

The Arpeggiator with all the possibilities in Sound changing .
The Arpeggiator in combination with the MultiPads .

The new and better Sounds with new and better Effects .
The Effects are easy to edit .

The 10 Registration buttons ( The Tyros 5 had 8 ) .
The 2 new buttons could be used to create new extra Registrations
with the Arpeggiator .

These are some items which make me a happy Genos user ,
there are more but this should be enough for today .

These improvements make me giving 10 to the Genos .

[torben]

Dear friends

we are going around in circles here ... 

I guess the best way you could ask the question, that would satisfy the survey, could be: How many percent better do you think that the Genos is - compared to the Tyros 5? 

For instance:
0% - they are equally good
100% - Genos is double as good as Tyros 5 ...
My personal opinion is 40 to 50%

My 50 cents ...

Torben

[Pianoman]

I think too many people are either on Yamaha's payroll, easily influenced by them or are in denial because of the amount of money they've spent.

I imagine that if you put a T5 (maybe even a T4) and a Genos side by side with a professional musician, the vast majority of people here would be pushed to tell the difference..

Regards,

I said this very same thing over a month ago, and got a verbal smackdown from Bachus, of all people.

We humans are always looking for the latest fad, or Guru, or Messiah to follow, to be part of the "IN" crowd.
Currently it's the Genos.

You may get some honest unbiased comparisons, but many others will just offer a knee jerk reaction, even when you explain over and over, the motive for this comparison test.

I treasure a movie by Monty Python, called "The Life Of Brian."
I recommend this movie to anyone who has never seen it.

And for those who have seen it, a rerun now and then wouldn't hurt.
It shows, in true Monty Python style, our human fallibilities, and the lengths we would go to, to defend our beliefs.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[pjd]

I treasure a movie by Monty Python, called "The Life Of Brian."

Right on, Pianoman.

Follow the gourd! Follow the shoe! Pretty much summarizes many discussions on the Web.   

Meanwhile, I'm just playin' this thang... 

Stay happy in the new year -- pj

P.S. Well, I just had an epiphany. Playing Junior Walker's "What Does It Take" with the new FunkAltoSax. I rest my case. Pianoman, I can't wait to hear you rock this.