Transporting Genos in Cold Weather

[stephenm52]

We will be taking a road trip this weekend with the Genos, we'll be spending at least 2 nights where my vehicle will be parked overnight in temperatures that are expected to be in the 18 to 20 degree farenheit range the Genos will be stored in the vehicle.   Does anyone know if this will cause issues with the keyboard?     I know once we get to our destination I will take the Genos out of the case and not power it up right away but let it gradually come up to room temperature.  Not sure it's a good idea to leave the board in the van overnight?   


Gary Diamond, I think from your experience gigging and leaving keyboards in the van you may have an answer for me, thanks in advance.

[zionip]

Hi Steve,

If I were you I would not leave the expensive Genos in the van overnight.  I would rather take the Genos inside the house instead of taking a chance.  How do you know how long it takes to ensure there is no condensation inside Genos before turning it on?  Besides risking electrical shock caused by possible condensation due to extreme temperature changes, the area around the touchscreen may crack and you may void the warranty because you are not handling your Genos as suggested by Yamaha.

On P. 6 of Genos Owner's Manual:
Do not expose the instrument to excessive dust or vibrations, or extreme cold or heat (such as in direct sunlight, near a heater, or in a car during the day) to prevent the possibility of panel disfiguration, damage to the internal components or unstable operation. (Verified operating temperature range: 5° – 40°C, or 41° – 104°F.)

I just want you to enjoy playing Genos, instead of having to deal with possible undesirable consequence by leaving it in the van overnight.

Thanks,
Paul

[hammer]

Steve,
I have never left my speaker or keyboard in the car in hot or cold weather. 

Deane

[Pianoman]

Steve.

My equipment lives in the car. At the moment we have 41°F at night, and 59°F during the day.
It's remained in the car this winter for 2 months now, and all summer, when we had temperatures between 90°F to 97° F.

Nothing has happened and nothing will happen to them. When I need to perform, I set it up, leave it standing for half an hour, and it's ready to go.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[travlin-easy]

My gear did not come out of the van, other than to be unloaded in venues for performances, for 5 years - never had a problem. Modern electronics  enjoys a wide operating temperature range, which goes well below freezing and up to well over 100 degrees f. The electronics can take it a lot better than we can.

Good luck,

Gary

[Pianoman]

The electronics can take it a lot better than we can.

Good luck,

Gary

Never have truer words been spoken.
Hope you had a Great Christmas Gary.

Best Regards,
Abby.

[stephenm52]

Thanks all for your input, we are having record breaking low temperatures here in New England 8 ℉ this morning and we will see very cold weather on our trip south to Florida.   I was considering taking the s970 in place of the Genos, since we'll be away from home for over 2 months and I'd much rather have the Genos with me.  We'll be staying in hotels along with taking our 2 dogs with us.  I pack my van in such a way that my keyboard and Bose Compact are buried in the van and hard to reach in event of a break in, in a hotel parking lot. ( the Genos is insured in event of theft ).    Taking it indoors at night is not really an option too much other gear and luggage to unpack.

Gary I remember when you were playing daily gigs you left your equipment in the van, I'm glad you commented.

Abby,  Having 41 ℉ overnight is a real luxury we won't hit that temperature overnight until we travel almost 1000 miles to the south.

[travlin-easy]

20 degrees f here last night and nothing electronic in my car died. The only precaution would be if you were to remove your gear from near zero temperatures directly into 85 degrees and 100 percent humidity. At that point, you could experience some condensation on your equipment, but if the transition is gradual, there would not be a problem. The only time I had a moisture problem was while performing outdoors in the Florida Keys and the settling dew began to settle on the gear. I covered everything but the keybed of the keyboard with clear plastic and continued to perform for the next three hours with no problems.

Some of you may remember HankB on the forum, who often performed in bars and clubs in Louisiana. Hank had a PSR-2000 back then and someone dumped a couple vodka tonics in his keyboard. He dumped out the contents and dried the keyboard with a hair dryer and continued to play that keyboard for another four years. Like I said, the gear can take the elements much better than we can.

Happy New Year,

Gary

[tyrosman]

i would never Leave any thing out in the Car in cold weather i Remember when i had the HX1 organ i brought it in from the cold to the heat and it cracked right down the middle and that was the end of it. a big mistake if you ask me

[Paula]

This is what the S970 manual says, I don't have book for Genios.
(NOTICE
To avoid the possibility of malfunction/ damage to the product, damage to data, or damage to other property, follow the notices below.
 Handling
• Do not use the instrument in the vicinity of a TV, radio, stereo equipment, mobile
phone, or other electric devices. Otherwise, the instrument, TV, or radio may
generate noise. When you use the instrument along with an application on your
iPad, iPhone or iPod touch, we recommend that you set "Airplane Mode" to "ON"
on that device in order to avoid noise caused by communication.
• Do not expose the instrument to excessive dust or vibrations, or extreme cold or
heat (such as in direct sunlight, near a heater, or in a car during the day) to prevent
the possibility of panel disfiguration, damage to the internal components or unstable
operation. (Verified operating temperature range: 5° – 40°C, or 41° – 104°F.)
• Do not place vinyl, plastic or rubber objects on the instrument, since this might
discolor the panel or keyboard.
 Maintenance
• When cleaning the instrument, use a soft cloth. Do not use paint thinners,
solvents, alcohol, cleaning fluids, or chemical-impregnated wiping cloths.
Paula

[DonM]

Gary,
HankB's PSR2000 is STILL working fine after all it went through.  It's like an old police dog, finally retired to the "pasture" of someone's living room.  It certainly LOOKS bad, with multiple stains and burns, but it plays just fine I'm told.
The booze and smoke killed Hank, but not his keyboard.
I sure miss Hank. . .

[travlin-easy]

Good find, Paula. I couldn't find that information in the Genos book, though it's probably in there somewhere.

During the summer months, it gets to 105 some days here, therefore, I always parked the van in the shade of a tree and cracked open the front windows, which are the only ones that open on my mini-van. In mid winter, when temperatures often get down to zero and below, I parked in the sun, thereby allows old sol to warm the van before I had to take off on a job. Never once had a problem in more than 30 years of gigging every day.

Don, I too miss Hank an awful lot. We usually talked on the phone just about every day, not so much about music, but more about fishing, hunting, boats, and other neat stuff.

All the best,

Gary

[zionip]

Good find, Paula. I couldn't find that information in the Genos book, though it's probably in there somewhere.

Hi Gary,

I already posted the same information on the first reply on this thread:
http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,42092.msg331695.html#msg331695
On P. 6 of Genos Owner's Manual:
Do not expose the instrument to excessive dust or vibrations, or extreme cold or heat (such as in direct sunlight, near a heater, or in a car during the day) to prevent the possibility of panel disfiguration, damage to the internal components or unstable operation. (Verified operating temperature range: 5° – 40°C, or 41° – 104°F.)

Thanks,
Paul

[stephenm52]

Paula and everyone else who commented, thank you for the comments.  Both Paul and Paula posted the right temperature ranges  for operating the keyboard.  I won't be firing up the the Genos in that extreme cold, I probably won't have time to use the Genos for at least 24 hours upon arrival at our destination and it may be as long as 48 hours because we'll be acclimating to the new community we are going to stay in during the winter months.  I am taking the Genos after all, am I taking a risk? Possibly but I know Gary D has enough experience with leaving equipment in his van overnight, he started swaying me back to the thought of transporting it.  In the meantime  this morning I spoke to my lifelong friend Manny who has worked for Bell Labs and Alacatel-Lucent as an electrical engineer.  He has experience testing electronic components in test environments where the high temps could be 130 degrees F and as low as minus 41 degrees F.  He tells me I should be fine with the keyboard packed in the hard shell insulated case I use, for an extra pre-caution he suggested also playcing a small blanket over the keyboard.

My friend Lloyd who was in the organ business and built them for a number of years also was of the opinion that all would be OK providing I don't fire up the keyboard for at least 12 hours after our arrival.


P.S.  My friend Manny also mentioned we have no idea what temperatures are on cargo ships, UPS, FedEx trucks or air transport carriers. Those modes of transportation could also subject our much loved arrangers to extremes in temperatures as well.

[Paula]

Good find, Paula. I couldn't find that information in the Genos book, though it's probably in there somewhere.

During the summer months, it gets to 105 some days here, therefore, I always parked the van in the shade of a tree and cracked open the front windows, which are the only ones that open on my mini-van. In mid winter, when temperatures often get down to zero and below, I parked in the sun, thereby allows old sol to warm the van before I had to take off on a job. Never once had a problem in more than 30 years of gigging every day.

Don, I too miss Hank an awful lot. We usually talked on the phone just about every day, not so much about music, but more about fishing, hunting, boats, and other neat stuff.

All the best,

Gary

Hi Gary
I also have had my key board in a  cold car over nite ...I dont leave it in below 0  but some times ya gotta do what ya gotta do
  I wouldn't worry about traveling as Steve is going to do if its cold just let it warm up
   you can also but one of those little blankets they sell in wal mart  plugs into alt in car it dont pull much juice and cover the equipment's case at nite a little cheap blanket my sisters uses one for her old dog when she has to leave him in the car
      Paula

[valimaties]

I have never leaved my keyboard in my car or in my tow. I have ever take my keyboard inside my room.
Other stuff can stay outside, but my keyboard, no way After all, is a year of work in my country (as many of us has a salary of 300-400 Euro/month), even if I am a little more fortunate/blessed, with a good salary, as a programmer,  I have profit too, from my band's events. But even so, I don't have to mock (google translate) of my work, after all!

Finally, over night you stay on a hotel or something, I don't think you sleep in van. So you can take it with you in the room

[travlin-easy]

Keep in mind that when I traveled long distances and had to spend a night in a motel or hotel, I brought everything out of the van and put it in the room. Too many thieves in this world to take that kind of chance.

Now, where I live, you cannot see my home from the road, the driveway is longer than a football field, and everyone around here hunts and owns a gun. Thieves never have been in my neighborhood, nor would they bother to venture here for fear of being shot while trying to break into a car or home. I have a state trooper that lives across the street from me, two sheriffs deputies a block away, and a retired police officer two block away. In the 50 years I have lived here, there has never been a single break in of any kind. Too many police cars parked in the driveways I guess.

Good luck,

Gary

[valimaties]

Keep in mind that when I traveled long distances and had to spend a night in a motel or hotel, I brought everything out of the van and put it in the room. Too many thieves in this world to take that kind of chance.

Now, where I live, you cannot see my home from the road, the driveway is longer than a football field, and everyone around here hunts and owns a gun. Thieves never have been in my neighborhood, nor would they bother to venture here for fear of being shot while trying to break into a car or home. I have a state trooper that lives across the street from me, two sheriffs deputies a block away, and a retired police officer two block away. In the 50 years I have lived here, there has never been a single break in of any kind. Too many police cars parked in the driveways I guess.

Good luck,

Gary

You lucky one! ))))

[OregonJim]

once we get to our destination I will take the Genos out of the case and not power it up right away but let it gradually come up to room temperature.

Let it come up to temperature BEFORE you open the case!  Otherwise, condensation will form immediately on all surfaces, inside and out.

This is standard procedure for all gigging musicians, regardless of instrument.  Equalize temp THEN open case.

[travlin-easy]

Jim, if I had to wait until the temperature equalized, my keyboard case is so well insulated it would take two days before I could open the case. Fortunately, while you I am driving along to the job, I was able to open the case and allow the car's heater/AC get the temperature of the gear close to room temperature before unloading the van. That only took about 20 minutes to achieve regardless of the weather.

Cheers,

Gary 

[DonM]

I don't worry about cold much.  It doesn't get cold here very often.
Remember Technics KN800?  My friend DickieT left his in the trunk of his car and the temperature was over 100 F.  The case melted.  It looked like a piece of modern art, something maybe Picasso would paint.  It still worked though, except the disk drive wouldn't open because the opening melted!  It may have reached 130 in that trunk, in the direct sunlight.
He still leaves his keyboards in the care all the time, so I guess they are made of better stuff these days.

[travlin-easy]

valimaties, I live quite some distance from any metropolitan area, therefore, thieves would have some difficulty finding this place. It's a very calm atmosphere, lots of woodlands behind my home, about 2,800 acres of rolling hills and trees with a couple streams flowing through, and the only difficulty I have is when winter sets in and we get some heavy snow. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef4eHsrNEbE&t=32s

The video begins at the top of the driveway and continues to the bottom where we park our cars.

Happy New Year,

Gary 

[travlin-easy]

Don, in your part of the world, the temperature inside the trunk of a dark colored car could easy hit 160 to 175 degrees. In a snow white car, the temperature in the trunk can reach 150 when the air temperature is just 90 degrees.

Just opening the front windows of your car a couple inches will keep the car within 10 to 20 degrees of the air temperature. Close those windows, especially on a dark colored car, and the temperature can be as much as 50 to 75 degrees above the air temperature.

There have been several studies pertaining to this subject, mainly to prevent children and pets from being left unattended in cars on a hot summer day. Unfortunately, this still happens every year, and there are several deaths of children and pets each year due to some unthinking person.

Gary

[Toril S]

Hi .) I don't think I will sleep well tonight. Shocked to my bones over people leaving their keyboards in the car out in the cold! Holy Santa and his red-nosed Rudolph, what are you thinking??

[travlin-easy]

Toril, when you work 450 jobs a year, there is no reason to remove it from the car and bring it into the house unless you have some updates you wish to install. My average week was 7 to 10 jobs, sometimes more. And, the month of December was 36 to 40 Christmas parties beginning on December 1st. Don Mason performs 5 nights a week at an upscale Italian restaurant and never takes his equipment home unless he books a private party somewhere for the nights he's not performing at the restaurant.

Home players, or performers that only do one or two jobs a week, well that's totally different. DonM and I were full time entertainers, and all of my income, other than Social Security, was generated by my musical performances. Don is lucky, his wife keeps him well fed, clothed and housed.

All the best,

Gary

[stephenm52]

Footnote to my original posts.  Every year since retiring 4 years ago we travel to Florida in late December, I've always packed one of my boards.  In the past it was the Pa3x which I transported 2 years in a row, last year I had an Ketron Sd7, all stayed overnight in the car and never had a problem.  The temperature those years was in the 20s, I never had a problem, this year the temps have been either in the low teens or single digits, those temperatures was the reason for my original post.   I do carry insurance and made it a point to update my insurance so that the insurer has a copy of my bill of sale and serial # of the Genos.

[Toril S]

Hello Gary Understand that, but I just got a very disturbing picture in my head of that mew Genos with hair thin cracks in its screen, and thieves lurking outside the car waiting to whisk it away But after all, instruments are tools, heavy tools, and you can't lug them around all the time when you perform so often. If this really was an issue, you would never do it. I understand that many of you do this, and still the instruments perform well for many years. Happy playing, and don't forget to lock the car, guys

[Paula]

 
Hi not to say it wouldn't happen my equipment is in my studio a nice room in my garage (Craig Built) a nice size 18 FT by 28 Ft a fun room not fancy but nice ,I keep two key boards  my Bose a big TV a laptop a couple of Roland amps mics and more ,I never lock the doors ever, course I am in the woods and have two shihtzu watch puppies
   about insurance I did have an accident and my Bose tower got broke having insurance was good cause I got a new one and insurance covered the cost thank goodness, it pays to have insurance when you are transporting your musical stuff
         
         Paula

[travlin-easy]

Insurance is a must when you have this much invested in an arranger keyboad, amp, etc..., and do this stuff for a living. I my case, I had an identical system ready to go in my office - just in case something were to happen. If someone stole everything in my van, I could do tomorrow's jobs.

All the best,

Gary

[Marcus]

I never leave my equipment out in the car, especially with our Canadian winters. I would hate to see the result of the "Mpemba Effect" on my Genos touch screen, "eh". It is -15 outside here right now.

Marcus

Canadian Weather Extreme cold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRqUZxci31Q

Massive Ice Mist From Boiling Water - best Mpemba effect on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_jPQFOd5yQ