Genos setup

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Stuart and Paul

I will have a look into your recommendations .


Also I like to thank Paul for trying to help me out.

All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Tom
Does that mean hum is the same as buzz.
£120  for this device not cheap and may not work
this looks like last resort for me

All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

Hi John this sound like a ground loop problem there are many manufactures out there this one won't break the bank personally i use Radial but they can be a bit pricy ... phone a good pro audio outlet like PMT or Andertons for advice and of course you can send these back if they dont work but you do sound like you are in gound loop territory to me ...a search on Google will explain all about this ...

[Tommy 73]

https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/DI-Boxes/Radial-ProD2-Dual-Passive-DI-Box_403570.htm?gclid=CID7n5e71dcCFe-7swodlD0GiA&gclsrc=ds

[Tommy 73]

https://youtu.be/l4famaQmWnA

[zionip]

I found this Rolls HE18 Hum Eliminator has good reviews on many sites including Amazon, B&H Photo & Video, supports RCA and 1/4 inch jacks, only $38 with free shipping in US:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004E4LU0W/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1

Same product in UK costs £83.43, ouch:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rolls_he_18.htm

Thanks,
Paul

[Marcus]

Checkout this old post from Robbiedoes and his Tyros 5. Lots of info regarding his process of elimination to get rid of an annoying hum. I think it ending up being a main board, but the discussion to get to that point is quite informative.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,24218.msg173475.html#msg173475

His solution was:
So as told, yesterday I removed the earthed connection on the Tyros 5 power cable only. At this moment, the noise and 9,5KHz whistle tone disappeared. The Tyros 5 seems to have problems when connected equipment (like my AW2400 harddisk recorder and the HS80/HS10W speakers) are sharing the same earthed connection with the earthed powerstrip. Even if the powerstrip itself is not connected to an earthed wall poweroutlet.

Marcus

[Tommy 73]

https://airlinktransformers.com/category/balanced-power-supply

[Tommy 73]

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/prepare-di

[zionip]

Checkout this old post from Robbiedoes and his Tyros 5. Lots of info regarding his process of elimination to get rid of an annoying hum. I think it ending up being a main board, but the discussion to get to that point is quite informative.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,24218.msg173475.html#msg173475

His solution was:
So as told, yesterday I removed the earthed connection on the Tyros 5 power cable only. At this moment, the noise and 9,5KHz whistle tone disappeared. The Tyros 5 seems to have problems when connected equipment (like my AW2400 harddisk recorder and the HS80/HS10W speakers) are sharing the same earthed connection with the earthed powerstrip. Even if the powerstrip itself is not connected to an earthed wall poweroutlet.

Marcus

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for the link, it is informative.

I read the whole thread, and found that Robert's 9.5KHz whistle problem was ultimately resolved when Yamaha replaced the mainboard of his Tyros 5.  His thread of discussion reflected that quite a number of Tyros 5 owners had a lot more hum / buzz / noise related issues with their Tyros 5s when they got released, than we heard from Genos owners so far.  I am going to buy a hum eliminator for my Genos setup for peace of mind. 

Robert said in his thread:

"I just want to update this topic with the final solution.

It took a long breath, but exactly one year later Yamaha decided to replace the mainboard of the Tyros 5. Yesterday I've visited the Yamaha Authorised Service Centre for the replacement. Back home I've tested the Tyros 5 by connecting everything back again to a grounded outlet. I was surprised to hear that it really did solve the 9,5KHz frequency tone and happy that finally a solution has been provided. Never expected that it could be caused by the mainboard.

I have always seen the solution using non-grounded outlets for all connected equipment as a workaround. Now I can finally close this issue.

Greetings,

Robert"

Thanks,
Paul

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

Big thanks for all your tips .

Firstly I have decided to tidy up all my wiring as It looks like Clapham Junction at the moment.
I will then have another try as ground loops must be solveable
If not I will have to try one of these eliminators
The Drx speakers may be Pa powerful speakers but the quality is fantastic except for the Hum/buzz
I now have a headache crawling around under my desk and the poor old back!!!!

All the best
John

[StuartR]

Hi

Big thanks for all your tips .

Firstly I have decided to tidy up all my wiring as It looks like Clapham Junction at the moment.
I will then have another try as ground loops must be solveable
If not I will have to try one of these eliminators
The Drx speakers may be Pa powerful speakers but the quality is fantastic except for the Hum/buzz
I now have a headache crawling around under my desk and the poor old back!!!!

All the best
John

John,

Didn't remember if you said that both speakers were plugged into same AC mains outlet as Genos.

[agoldstraw]

Bear in mind that nearfield monitors and active (powered) PA speakers are NOT the same beast at all. Buzz shouldn't be terrible, but at rest, PA speakers generally won't be as clean and quiet as nearfields when no signal is going through them. But of course, nearfields are not practical for use in sound reinforcement scenarios by the same token.

If you're not going to be gigging at all, I'd swop for a good pair of nearfields, as the sound will be so much better anyway. Even if you are going to be gigging, you'd be far better off buying a pair of active PA speakers to cover JUST that function. I know it's more expensive and probably not want you wanted to hear. However, use either type of speaker in the situation it was not designed for, and you can expect less than optimal results.

A final thought: however much you might be tempted, do NOT disconnect the earth wire on any of the plugs – it could potentially electrocute you.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Stuart
Yes the speakers are plugged into the same outlet  as the Genos

All the best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Mr Gold

The Dxr 8's are fantastic for detail with the Genos.
I think the solution Is backing off the speakers untill the hum is not audible and when I did this I turned the Genos up to half way, that was very high at that and had to tone It down. They are quite powerful beasts but the quality is second to none. Just trying out Spanish guitars was amazing in detail.
What put me on to these were finding out they have quality amps inside and at home the quality is there at lower volumes,even though they are pa's. Great full bodied sound.
Some people use pa's for Home Cinimas. I suppose they have Mansions!!
Since this morning I have now took all leads out and I will get some cable tidies and place the leads around more orderly. have not finished yet,will try again tomorow
Also try to keep the mains leads away from the speaker leads.
Hope things go great this time. Got to keep plugging away!!


I do have a pair of Tapco S5 monitors for mixing

All the Best
John

[zionip]

Hi John,

The master volume knob of the Genos can be turned very 'high' without distortion.

You mentioned "turned the Genos up to half way", did you mean 12 o'clock position?  With the Genos GNS-MS01 2.1 speaker system, I had to maximize the volume knobs on the front and back of the subwoofer, and turn the master volume knob of the Genos to 2 o'clock position to achieve acceptable volume level, which does not have any distortion at all.

Using a very old pair of Yamaha MS-202ii powered speakers, only 20W per side, at 12 o'clock position of their own master volume knobs, the master volume knob on Genos just have to be turned to 12 o'clock and the sounds produced are already very nice and loud, with excellent stereo separation, without distortion.

So in practice, you can turn the volume knob of the Genos to very high, 2 o'clock to 3 o'clock positions, the volumes of your DXR8s very low to achieve excellent sounds without any distortion or noises.

Thanks,
Paul

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

HI Paul
I backed off my Yamaha DXR 8's until the buzz had gone and that is only 25% up
I could only get the Genos at the 12 0'clock position and that is quite a hefty volume and I had to turn down the Genos a little.
I really do not need a di box as the sound is amazing at these settings.
These are really powerful pa speakers, but at low volume you get great quality and detail.
I am still keeping options open.
Now I have shorter speaker leads and can separate them now fom running alonside the mains leads as that could be part of the interference I had.
Also now I am re-laying all my leads in an orderly fashion.
At the moment I am taking things one step at a time


All the best
John

[EileenL]

Pleased to hear you are now getting sorted and Ray was able to help.

[zionip]

Hi John,

I am glad that you have a good handle on the PA speaker humming issue.

Seeing you problem, I ordered a US$38 rolls HE18 Hum Eliminator for peace of mind:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004E4LU0W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I learned a lot from this thread.

Thanks,
Paul

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Still thinking about this situation.
If you did get the ebbtech buzz eliminator can you put a lead in from the keyboard and out to the pa DXR 8.
I read In native instruments section that you must not connect a lead from an amp to a speaker.
The amp is in the speaker so what is the situation there.
Also does a cheaper buzz or hum eliminator degradate the sound  from the speakers???
I am not too worried about this as backing off the speakers to just under a quarter volume  and turning up the Genos to 12 '0clock you get sufficient volume for a room and the quality is 100%.
It would be nice to kill the buzz as I might want to do a Deep Purple or a Black sabbath sometime. Not Motorhead, they work at 0 db and the ceiling shakes which takes a couple of days to get over. With a Motorhead concert ,you need to see an ear specialist afterwards , not Specsavers My son in Law dragged me to a Motorhead concert and I have never been the same agaiN!!    " Mean looking mother in a black leather jacket""!! wooowowowooowoZING!!   " Ace of Spades" Yeah!! Reginald Dixon Nah!!

All the best
John

[Tommy 73]

www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-there-any-point-di-ing-keyboards

[Tommy 73]

https://youtu.be/EvXXrzy7Kyw

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
A mic input .
I am confused here
I asked whether you can go from keyboard outs to Di box in and to the Powered speaker as I am getting the buzz from the speaker.
I red that from amp to speaker is dodgy,. It is hell if you are not electrically minded and I have a horrid cold !!
I am not talking about mix consoles etc.
I am not up to speed with the tech and need an explanation that is simple like a little drawing would help
I do not want to blow anything up or degradate the sound from the speakers

[zionip]

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for the links - they are very useful to me.

So, I guess after you watched the Youtube video on the positive review of the US$149 Radial ProD2 Passive 2 Channel Direct Box and the guy's painful experience with cheap DIs, you removed your link to the inexpensive Behringer Ultra-DI DI600P. 

That was the reason why I quoted the US$179 Countryman Type 85 DI, and we need 2 of these for Genos - too expensive solution.  The Radial ProD2 Passive 2 channel DI is much more affordable, with proven track record.

Paul

[Tommy 73]

I think its safe to say...when you have spent very good money on a new outfit like you have john then using cheep gear inbetween will only act as the weakest link and after trying one or two of these Di's in a passive configeration over time and passive being best for a keyboard.. then there are differences in tonality and after trying a few there are changes in the dynamics... Radial is especially good and for a few quid more why risk choking the fidelity of the Genos with cheaper gear...all the pros use Radial 😊

[zionip]

Hi
A mic input .
I am confused here
I asked whether you can go from keyboard outs to Di box in and to the Powered speaker as I am getting the buzz from the speaker.
I red that from amp to speaker is dodgy,. It is hell if you are not electrically minded and I have a horrid cold !!
I am not talking about mix consoles etc.
I am not up to speed with the tech and need an explanation that is simple like a little drawing would help
I do not want to blow anything up or degradate the sound from the speakers

Hi John,

On the video, I could see that the guy implied to connect the high Z unbalanced left and right outputs from Genos to the DI boxes, then the DI boxes connect to a in-house mixer using low Z XLR cables, then from the mixer, you connect either balanced 1/4 inch cables or XLR cables to your powered speakers.

Thanks,
Paul

[Tommy 73]

Yes sorry Paul fat finger on my smart phone thats why i removed it lol...... I am watching David Gilmour live at pompe2 and not concentrating....😉

[zionip]

Hi John,

In your case:
Genos unbalanced outputs - unbalanced high Z 1/4-inch cables - DI boxes - balanced 1/4-inch cables, or XLR cables to your powered speakers.

Thanks,
Paul

[Tommy 73]

Hi John,

In your case:
Genos unbalanced outputs - unbalanced high Z 1/4-inch cables - DI boxes - balanced 1/4-inch cables, or XLR cables to your powered speakers.

Thanks,
Paul

thats the way Paul 😊