tear down of the Genos

[ash1]

i wonder if this guy will do a teardown of the Genos when it has been out for a while and what he will find inside
just like he did with the tyros 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJPl_Kp06AY

[voodoo]

For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there. Todays, most features are software based. 

[maartenb]

Markus Fuller will make a video as soon as he has a chance to open up a Genos, I think!

This may take a while, since all Genosses are still under warranty...


Maarten

[ash1]

hi maartenb
i agree might take a while im sure a lot of people would like to see what components yamaha have put inside the Genos
he is a highly skilled  guy
i dont think i would even attempt to open up my tyros 5 let alone a brand new Genos 

[Tommy 73]

May be he could take a look in side my mother-in-laws head as I here she is coming over on Sunday and apparently is going to tell me...why I don't need another keyboard (Genos) I think some where along the line she has been "Over Clocked" and perhaps M.Fuller could reverse this for me... Great "you tube channel" and a wonderfully rendition from M.F on his Montage the other day

[organaut]

Hi Ash,  I have asked Markus for you as you may know he is my partner. Although he is interested in possibly buying a Genos for himself, he probably won;t tear it down to make a video as there was nothing much to see of any interest in the previous Tyros videos he made.
Tommy, as for your mother in law, how long would the tear down take. We only have a limit of 15 minutes on youtube ?

[ash1]

hi organaut
that was really nice of you to ask Markus about the Genos
i didnt know Markus was your partner
i dont blame him one false move with a £4500 Genos and it would be goodnight vienna 
he did a great job opening the tyros/4/5
if i did that i would left with a yamaha jigsaw puzzle 
many thanks again 

i forgot it was Markus who did the push 2 teardown that was  good one when he lifted the lid off to find all those signatures inside the lid
organaut can you pass on my thanks i know a lot of people really appreciated Markus doing the videos
i wouldnt try that either with my push 2 lol

[pjd]

For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there.

Gasp!       

-- pj

[Joe H]

Gasp!       

-- pj

Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.



Kind Regards,
Joe H

[pjd]

Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

Never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

-- pj

[Mendel]

Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.

..and that is why back than in the 60's and 70's microsoft
was the champion of the computer-tech race [microsoft was involved
in software while ibm were basically only involved in hardware]


mendel

[travlin-easy]

Just looking inside at the hardware and PC boards, the advancements in micro-electronic technology lately, may have significantly reduced the component size and configuration to the point where the entire mother board may be the size of a package of cigarettes. Don't believe that 99.9-percent of those that view the internal hardware would have a clue what they were actually looking at.

All the best,

Gary

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

A doctor lifted the lid on me  and took out a Kidney Stone and a gall Bladder!!

Lucky he left the organ alone

Still a few screws missing on the casing though!!

[ash1]

hi Gary i was just wondering what your basing the 99.9-percent on

[ash1]

hi ugawoga
sounds like operation 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[voodoo]

Gasp!       

-- pj

Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is...... 

[pjd]

Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is...... 

Just kidding, Uli! (A bad attempt at self-deprecating humor.) 

Hey, just checked the date of the Japanese patent on the tone generator memory interface: November 2012. So, engineers at Yamaha already had a vision of the future Genos platform 5 years ago. And then Yamaha management took the risk to develop the integrated circuit and hardware/software platform which we finally see in Genos.

Maybe it's missing a few things here and there, but I admire their work and sing their praises.

All the best -- pj

[Bachus]

Ouch. I did not say, that the hardware is not important. Of course it is...... 

I think what you meant to say is "the hardware is a fact you cant change"
The software however in any processor is most of the time much more fluent..

When you look at the Genos, there is several hardware things i dont like
- the knobs are just simple pots and not limitless encoders
- there is only 6 and not 8 of them.. 8 is the standard on midi controlers, and lots of software asumes there is 8 knobs in its default settings
- there are no 8 buttons under the sliders, they would be perfect as on/off or solo buttons or scenes or whatever you program them like
- there is no touchstrip..
- several other realtime buttons would be perfect for direct access to menu screens on the touchscreen.
- harmony/arp should have been atleast 2 buttons.
- half of the polyphony is reserved for expansion sounds, most people barely use... seems a hardware issue to me, indicationg 2 sepperate processors just like on the montage.
- There is no 88 key version(nor a 61 version)
And a few more like no dedicated video out, people have been complaining about

Now, these are issues for me, however its of no use complaining about them, as they are not going to be changed or fixed... they are facts, everyone has to live with...  these will never change untill Genos 2 arives..


Now the software is still liquid and able to be changed trough patches.. so thats where we can still help Yamaha making this a better experience..

And thats where Yamaha can still make a difference...
And thats why you will see all my criticisme aimed at the software
Because in my opinion patches can mean a lot

[pjd]

- half of the polyphony is reserved for expansion sounds, most people barely use... seems a hardware issue to me, indicating 2 separate processors just like on the Montage.

Yep, Bachus, this is curious.

I think Yamaha has future plans that they are not telling us about. If my conjecture about the hardware structure of the second tone generator is correct (assuming there are two TGs), then Yamaha should be able to stream audio directly into the second tone generator.

Really going out on a tree limb, this would be the appropriate structure for full audio styles. (Please don't gang tackle me, people.  ) The pitch bend hardware implements semi-tone transposition; all they need is hardware time stretch. I could go all the way out to the tip of the tree branch with more speculation, but I'd better stop here.

-- pj

P.S. When did they ever tell us about future plans? 

[travlin-easy]

Ash, I base that upon more than a half century of working with musicians and entertainers, which is what mainly constitutes the membership of most music forums. Granted, a few folks would know an IC from a resistor, but the vast majority would not.

Gary

[organaut]

Ash, I have passed on your message of thanks to Markus. Got him thinking that he is going to sell his ableton push along with his synth gear including the Montage except of course for the big Moog so just have the Genos and Moog. (A leap of of faith or what) I'm sure if he likes the Genos after trying it out first we will be hearing plenty of Genos sounds in future videos he makes but sticking to his own compositions of course for copyright reasons. So it looks like there might be two Genos in our house because it wouldn't be fair for me to keep gigging his.
Going back to the subject of Tyros teardowns around the time of the t5 td video Markus drew me out a simple design for the MS speaker input where the connections pins would be electronic rather than cable. I emailed it to one of the Yamaha reps but didn't receive a reply of acknowledgment . Just thought I'd mention that. At least the speaker inputs on the Genos are back to as with Tyros 4 and much neater than on Tyros 5.

[ash1]

hi organaut noooooooooooooooooooooo lol not the beloved push and synth gear and a montage he has the Genos bug bad
a leap of faith mmm well i have to be honest i have sold some of my gear before to buy something else
i think the Genos is the best arranger yet
i wish the price was just a bit lower its a lot £4500
im still torn about trading up the tyros 5 on the Genos
i dont think i could sell any more of my gear lol
i will probably visit my local music retailer and have a play on the Genos and explore what it has to offer over the tyros 5
at least yamaha have Markus's design
MS speaker input where the connections pins would be electronic rather than cable sounds good to me
lets just hope they dont nick the idea   

all the best ash1

[svpworld]

I would be very interested in knowing a bit more about the inside workings of the Genos, mainly because of my electronics background and fascination with how Yamaha keyboards have progressed over the years.  I've still got my first Yamaha arranger keyboard, a PS30 which is fully analog! I've studied the service diagrams of my PSR-S950 and as you say it's more like a computer these days. My Montage uses the newer custom Yamaha chips which I believe also the PSR-S950 and Genos use, these overcome the memory limitations and probably help with the increased DSP functionality and higher audio quality.  I'm just curious to see how the Genos is built compared to the Montage or Motif, as I know the synths are made in Japan whilst arrangers are usually made in China (although under high quality control standards I'm sure). For a while I've always kept my arrangers purely for performing at church or for fun and used the more 'pro line' synths such as the Kronos or Montage/Motif in the home studio for recording. The audio quality of the latter has always sparkled and excelled.  However the game is changing and it sounds from the demos I've heard that the Genos is just as good as the Montage.   Interesting to read what Markus is considering as I've done exactly the same and are offloading my top end synth workstations for Genos.   At the end of the day I get a lot more fun and enjoyment out of sitting at the arranger than slaving hours or even days over the DAW and programming synths, although the latter is still enjoyable. Look forward anyway to see a future video from Markus discussing the Genos and his thoughts, and maybe even a peep under the hood!

[Jeff Hollande]

I am very happy we are getting some news from Simon ( svpworld ) !!!

A long time ago svpworld had a website and Simon made us very happy with his own made styles. I still have them all.
Very, very nice and very good quality !

Hope we will hear more from him !

Best regards, Jeff

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If you lift the lid what do you  get?


GENOS and CHIPS!!

[Pianoman]

Don't believe that 99.9-percent of those that view the internal hardware would have a clue what they were actually looking at.

All the best,

Gary

True.

I opened up my Tyros twice.
Once to tighten a loose modulation wheel screw, which went ok.
The second time I tried to remove and open up the display screen, to try and repair a broken Exit button, and a couple of other buttons under the screen.
I quickly acknowledged my limitations after about half an hour and gave up.

I would like to give it another shot, but I fear that it will be as futile as the previous attempt.
And by the way, the plastic holes which hold the screws (on the inside) at the back of the Tyros break VERY easily.

Best Regards,
Pianoman.

[Joe H]

Obviously that guy has some technical experience... look at the equipment around his workbench.

Joe H

[svpworld]

I am very happy we are getting some news from Simon ( svpworld ) !!!

A long time ago svpworld had a website and Simon made us very happy with his own made styles. I still have them all.
Very, very nice and very good quality !

Hope we will hear more from him !

Best regards, Jeff

Thanks Jeff, yes I'm back!  It's been quite a while but the latest Genos is rekindling my interest!  I am currently use the PSR-S950 on the arranger side, though I've been using synths a lot more with my DAW to create covers for my own entertainment and learning process.  I've tried a lot of different top end keyboards from various manufacturers but realised my heart is always in Yamaha!

Simon

[Jean Abdou]

Well pj you have to admit that you can have all the BEST hardware in the world, but without the software, it's like a car with gasoline.

The hardware makes Genos sound fabulous, but how well we can make use of the darn thing is due to good programming.



Kind Regards,
Joe H

For me as a computer scientist it is not interesting what hardware is in there. Todays, most features are software based. 

You can only play music with software without the hardware in your imagination or dreams. A true computer scientist should
know that at its core, a hardware is either the physical implementation of a software or it is tangled with software (Like the real-time OS running in Genos and Montage).

I actually appreciate if Yamaha could make an FPGA based synthesizer. I believe software (indirect implementation which runs on a micro controller's OS) is BS when it comes to music.

[svpworld]

No-one yet taken a peak inside Genos?   Organaut, any thoughts from Markus on getting himself a Genos?  Tell him I haven't regretted for one second trading my Montage and Kronos for it!

Simon