The screen position

[Bachus]

Am i the only one that is a bit worried that it will be hard to touch the items on the bottom of the screen?

[DavidB]

I imagine it could be, especially if you have fat fingers like mine

I'm also worried the screen will at times not respond, such as on the CVP. It's an odd thing, you touch it, it clicks to acknowledge the touch, but nothing changes. Only a major issue if you're using it in a live performance, but I had hoped it was fixed until I saw it do this exact thing, it seemed, to Martin Harris in one of his demo's.

Regards,

[frankmusik]

@Bachus
@david
I touched it ... and in MY Opinion the important thing is the size, so with a thick thumb it work :-)

I also used the touch on the CVP Series, but there the display ist to small for a thick thumb.

greetings frank

[Pauljones]

That's the only reason putting me off to put in a pre-order.  I'll need to try it out first before I buy one.

Friend of my just bought a new Ketron with a fix display.  Not that impressive.

[travlin-easy]

Touch screens are not a panacea, they have been known to fail at the most inopportune  times, and I personally, have had two touch screens fail, one on a GPS/Plotter used for navigation and another on a smart phone.

This is not to say the multiple buttons and menus are better, buttons also fail, and probably with more regularity because many players have the tendency to mash down on a button switch with far too much pressure, thereby resulting in premature failure.

Yamaha did something that I requested a decade ago - they changed their displays to super twist technology LED, which results in a display that can readily be seen at nearly any angle, in high definition, and very easy to read, even with poor eyesight. This was a huge step up in the displays and they were light years ahead of other manufacturers with this.

One of the reasons that manufacturers usually do not use tilt screen displays for touch screens is that the screen tends to move when you press to select an item near the top of the screen. And, the same players that destroy button switches will likely be pressing the touch screens too hard as well.

All the best,

Gary

[organaut]

I had the Ketron module too. It was ok but I wouldn't feel confident with it in a live situation when my hands start to sweat. I don't feel the Genos will be a problem though, especially as we've got the 10 registration buttons . I'm quite excited about the new playlist feature.I think those virtual buttons on the screen are nice and big enough to rely on live. That will help a great deal. I get a bit nervous at my gigs keeping the audience waiting while I change registration pages on my Tyros 5 between songs at the moment and I have a habit of forgetting to turn off the freeze button sometimes. Very embarrasing to try playing "apache" to a samba style with a jazz flute  . I also do requests which makes it even more crucial that I can find a suitable registration/style swiftly.

[Joe H]

Am i the only one that is a bit worried that it will be hard to touch the items on the bottom of the screen?

I'm equally concerned about the organization of menus on the Genos.  From looking at the manual, the S970 screen appears to be better organized and more ergonomic in layout and using buttons.   Another problem for me is I don't much care for a lot of icons.  My PC is set up to display lists in most windows with the exception of folders containing jpg file (photos)

Joe H

[Bob88]

   I am one of many who has preordered a Genos, taking the risk of not having one to test beforehand.  My concern is being able to see the screen which is placed in a flat position on the Genos.  Granted ,the T5 screen was not touch capable but it DID lock in an upright position  at various angles which was great for visiblility.  My 2 cents worth. Bob

[travlin-easy]

Organaut, the trick to eliminating dead time between songs is actually very easy - it's just a matter of organization and planning. Many years ago, my dead time between songs was horrible, often as much as 30 seconds while I scrambled to find the right page in my loose leaf binder filled to capacity with lyrics sheets. Despite the fact that I had tabbed the pages in alphabetical order, it still took forever.

About 20 years ago, I traveled around the mid Atlantic region of the US to see how the other One Man Band (OMB) entertainers coped with this. Most chatted with the audience while they pressed the appropriate buttons on the keyboard, then went into the song. Their dead time was still horrendous. I ran into a few, however, that had no dead time at all between. They could actually transition into the next song while the current song was ending. WOW! I was excited.

First and foremost, I perform nearly 3,800 songs, therefore, it's pretty rare that someone might request a song that I do not know. However, when they do, I merely told them to write the name of the song on one of my business cards, and I would learn it before I returned the next time, and I always did.

Obviously, I cannot remember all the words to all 3,800 songs I perform, therefore, I copied the lyrics off the internet, then saved them into my netbook PC in Microsoft Word, all in a single folder. This automatically puts them in alphabetical order, which makes them very easy to access and recall.

Next, I created my own, personal Music Finder Directory, one that contains about 800 songs, songs that are frequently requested and usually please the dancing crowd. This took a couple weeks, but in the end, it was well worth the time.

My registrations are categorized, and I have about 400 songs in registrations, but ironically, I rarely use registrations - just the MFD.

Now, the beauty of this is that you can scroll through the registrations or MFD while performing a song, stop at the song you wish to play next, but as long as you do not press the enter button, you can continue the song you are currently performing uninterrupted.

Upon ending the song you are currently performing, merely press the Enter button and the song you stopped at on the MFD or registration will instantly kick in. It's that easy.

The attached video link will give you an idea of how this can be put into play and be quite effective. In the video I used both the MFD and registrations. The lyrics were mainly in head, but if necessary, I could have instantly called them up on my netbook pc which sits atop my custom made music console that I designed and constructed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMQDzrS3658

The photo of my rig and I was taken at an outdoor marina party back when I was using the PSR-3000 and Bose L1 Compact PA system. If I loved closer to you, I would be more than happy to show you how this works in person.

Hope this helps,

Gary :cool:

[attachment deleted by admin]

[dixie]

Thanks Gary,
What a great lesson on the MFD.   Will go and set mine up now and hope to pass on
to other members of our group.
Dixie

[travlin-easy]

Glad I could be of help, Dixie.

Gary 

[Al Ram]

Only a major issue if you're using it in a live performance,
Regards,

David
Could not this issue be solved with registrations prepared in advance for live performance . . . . ?  I imagine that if you play the registrations, you would not even need to touch the screen while playing live . . . .

thanks

[DavidB]

David
Could not this issue be solved with registrations prepared in advance for live performance . . . . ?  I imagine that if you play the registrations, you would not even need to touch the screen while playing live . . . .

thanks

Absolutely it could be. I don't do 'live' performances so it's never really affected me but as I know some people perform with their Tyros and will be switching to a Genos, it's just something to look out for.

Regards,

[organaut]

Thank you Gary, What you describes sounds very practical. I wish I had spoke with you when I first started using the Tyros but I will definately organise myself better using your ideas but with the playlist feature of the Genos. 
I am must faster on the Tyros transitioning to the next song than I used to be because I have got so used to where my registrations are now. But at first it was horrible and I was always trying different methods of ordering and naming the banks. In the end I found that 1 bank for Latin, another for big band, another for requests etc. was the easiest way for me.
I know I'm wandering of the topic of the screen here and hijacking the thread but it would be great if they've been a bit more inventive with the OTS this time in the Genos. I found some of the Tyros ones really bland such as just piano or dry harmonica.Like whoever chose them at the factory wasn't very enthusiastic about been given that job. Either that or they were filled with Doos and Daas. Almost as if they really don't want you to sound professional.   If they're all as good as that Bossa Rio demo that will be great.

[CalUKGR]

Am i the only one that is a bit worried that it will be hard to touch the items on the bottom of the screen?

TBH, the touch screen on my old Korg Triton Studio was pretty small, but somehow I managed. If anything the bigger screen on the Genos should be far easier to navigate.

[Bachus]

@Bachus
@david
I touched it ... and in MY Opinion the important thing is the size, so with a thick thumb it work :-)

I also used the touch on the CVP Series, but there the display ist to small for a thick thumb.

greetings frank

Yes its a good thing that you like the screen, and the fact that icons are big

Just a question tough, did you also try to use the items on the bottom bar, because thise are the one that woorie me, with the drop down of the screen

[frankmusik]

Hi Bachus,
I tested and played checked serveral Menus and for ME it works good.
"But" I am a Touch and iPad User ...

I think for people NOT using a device like that had to learn that also...

(as I learned writing grafity on my PALM hundred years ago..)
greetings frank

[voodoo]

Am i the only one that is a bit worried that it will be hard to touch the items on the bottom of the screen?

This was a problem on the PA900.  There the bottom row touch buttons could be reached very badly. Hope it works better on Genos.

[travlin-easy]

Bachus, I would think that for an experienced, professional entertainer/musician, the buttons at the bottom will never be a problem. The same is true for home players, whom do not have to access them on the fly.

Pro musician/entertainers, for the most part, would rarely use those onscreen features because they would be working mainly from registrations and the playlist, Home players, have all the time in the world to access those touchscreen buttons, so where's the problem? I really don't envision a problem.

Now, I noticed that you have made a lot of posts about this particular arranger keyboard - does this mean you are considering, or may be purchasing a Yamaha Genos when they become available in your area? I would really enjoy your input from a hands on perspective.

All the best,

Gary

[Joe H]

...  Home players, have all the time in the world to access those touchscreen buttons, so where's the problem? I really don't envision a problem...

All the best,

Gary

Hi Gary,

I understand your point of view, and for me ultimately, the goal is to build an arrangement in a registration bank.  But not everyone uses the keyboard the same.  As a "home player" I do a LOT of real-time adjustments to style Parts On/Off and Multi Pads on the fly. It is necessary to work out the arrangement this way by playing a live performance before building the registrations.

I think Yamaha got the layout of buttons and screen displays just about perfect on the S970.  I'm a firm believer in... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Regards,
Joe H

[travlin-easy]

I think Yamaha got the layout of buttons and screen displays just about perfect on the S970.  I'm a firm believer in... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Regards,
Joe H

I agree, Joe, but I also think the newer generation is so accustomed to everything on a small touch screen that if Yamaha had not went that route that they would have lost some customers. The combination of buttons and touch screen may answer both scenarios.

All the best,

Gary 

[Joe H]

... The combination of buttons and touch screen may answer both scenarios.

All the best,

Gary 

Yes that's what they did with the Montage.  Then we would have the option of touch screen or buttons.  We don't all work the same way.  It's not the best design to lock users into a workflow that everyone must follow and have only one approach to doing certain things.

Joe H

[Bachus]

Bachus, I would think that for an experienced, professional entertainer/musician, the buttons at the bottom will never be a problem. The same is true for home players, whom do not have to access them on the fly.

Pro musician/entertainers, for the most part, would rarely use those onscreen features because they would be working mainly from registrations and the playlist, Home players, have all the time in the world to access those touchscreen buttons, so where's the problem? I really don't envision a problem.

Now, I noticed that you have made a lot of posts about this particular arranger keyboard - does this mean you are considering, or may be purchasing a Yamaha Genos when they become available in your area? I would really enjoy your input from a hands on perspective.

All the best,

Gary

Its not the physical buttons, its the virtuall buttons on the lower bar... and the fact that the screen seems to be sunken several centimeters deep

[Marcus]

Finger Extensions, issue resolved. 

Finger Extenders (not to be confused with a finger extension)


Joking aside, with the natural curving of the human hand the fingers easily extend far below the main part of the hand and can touch the lower part of the screen no problem. I also see no issue with the fixed screen and angle, unlike earlier screens where it was difficult to see at certain angles.

Actually on my Tyros 5, I kept the adjustable screen flat, with no issues seeing it clearly with the high resolution tiff type display screen. Maybe once playing my Tyros outside I had to adjust the screen angle to avoid glare from the afternoon sky.

The biggest plus of the new 9 inch Genos screen is that it is significantly bigger, and maybe with the assignable buttons I can make practical use of the score display.

Marcus

[DavidB]

with no issues seeing it clearly with the high resolution tiff type display screen.

I wouldn't call 640 x 480 high resolution at all (Tyros 5). In fact in this day and age it's distinctly low res.

I was rather disappointed to read that Genos is only 800 x 480.

Regards,

[Fred Smith]

Its not the physical buttons, its the virtuall buttons on the lower bar... and the fact that the screen seems to be sunken several centimeters deep

Does this mean you're actually considering buying an arranger keyboard. If not, why the concern?

Fred

[Bachus]

Does this mean you're actually considering buying an arranger keyboard. If not, why the concern?

Fred

Offcourse i am comsidering buying an arranger keyboard.. i have owned an arranger for atleast a decade now.. currently a pa4x, and before that the tyros 5 and a few others.

My current setup is 88 key kronos, and the pa4x on top of that.. in the end, i would love to get a single 88 keyboard that can do it all and is semi/mobile...

If i wasnt seriously considering the Genos, why worry?

There is much to be loved about the Genos, there is also much to be loved about the pa4x.



There is also the fact that Yamaha could have done a better job at supporting the not so typical arranger player with this keyboard. There is a reason that on the official Yamaha synth website the CP piano's are accepted as a synth and the Genos is not.

My main wishes for the Genos are actually quite simple
- DAW imtegration, so you can use the daw tools to easilly edit midi and audio in the Genos, but also use the daw as a vst soundsource and controll it from the Genos...
- onboard sound edditing, making it easy to edit and create sounds...
- make the arp feature a pro feature and not the toy from the psr-e series...

If you name something a workstation, then it definately should be a workstation, is that to much to ask for?  And the above can all be done trough simple software updates.
-

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Bachus,

Up to now Yamaha never updated the Tyros. Upgrades only.
See Tyros 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Why should they change their " tradition " for the Genos ?

IMO you have to wait for the Genos2 or Genos3 to make your wishes come true. 😧

Jeff

[Bachus]

Hi Bachus,

Up to now Yamaha never updated the Tyros. Upgrades only.
See Tyros 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Why should they change their " tradition " for the Genos ?

IMO you have to wait for the Genos2 or Genos3 to make your wishes come true. 😧

Jeff

Up till now they also never changed the tyros name..

The new technollogy might be much more suited for content updates, as was proven in the montage based on the same hardware as the genos. With the Motif range we didnt see large upgrades eiher, but with the montage we do

If yamaha intends to give their platforms a longer life span of up to 5 years, having major feature updates is the way to give an allready excisting instrument a boost in sales.

So never having any feature updates with Tyros adsolutely dies not mean we will not see them with Genos. This is one of the questions i will ask peter Baartmans at the deno.

[Jeff Hollande]

Changing ( or adding ) a new brand name might have complete other ( marketing ) reasons than we may think or guess.

In my small knowledge Yamaha's Synth Department is a different division in their organistation, am I right or wrong ? I really do not know.

Maybe both divisions ( Synths & Arrangers ) are sharing technical information but probably no Sales, Marketing and Distribution decisions.
May I say those two instrument groups have different customers and maybe different distribution channels ?
Sorry, again ... I really do not know.   

Our dealers, Frank & Frank, could, if they are allowed to speak, tell us if Yamaha's Synth and Arranger divisions are working indepently, separately or togehter.

BTW I am almost sure Peter Baartmans cannot give you the answer.
Due to the NDA he is not allowed to talk about any, what they call, trade secrets.
He will simply tell you he does not know.

IMHO.

Personally, I absolutely support your update wish. Plse do not misunderstand me.

I deeply regret I have to call it " wishful thinking " until Yamaha will officially announce Genos updates might be expected in the near future. 
And ... if Yamaha should decide to update will these update be free of charge like Korg's ?

The answer is blowing in the wind.


Jeff