Tyros 4 recording on hard drive -disk is busy error

[pancrj1]

I have a tyros 4. I have an expansion memory also (FL1024). Each time I record/ on the main or sub tracks, I get this error message which says "disk is busy"  I have re formatted the hard disk, tried a new one etc. I had even reset to factory settings. Nothing seem to work. Please help

[tyrosaurus]

I also have a Tyros4 and I have never seen this message when recording!

Since you refer to 'the main or sub tracks' I assume that you are talking about 'Multi Track' audio recording.  'Audio (Multi)' files are saved in a special '.AUD' format in a folder on the hard drive named 'AUDIOREC.ROOT'.

This folder is automatically set up if you format the hard drive in the keyboard itself rather than externally using a computer.  When you reformatted the drive, did you do it in the keyboard?

What is the source of what you are trying to record? Is it just keyboard parts or are you also playing back an existing audio wav or mp3 file?

Can you record a 'Simple' audio file (i.e. a single stereo track wav file)?

Can you copy a suitably formatted 'Simple' audio file from USB to the hard disk, and then play it back from there?

Is the disk working normally if you try to save or load other types of files (e.g. styles or voices) from it?


Regards

Ian

[EileenL]

This message can appear when the hard drive has become faulty. Have a word with Yamaha Tech support.

[pancrj1]

Thank You for being so prompt.
Eileen, I have changed the hard disk ( a new 500Gig)and tried to format it.It came up as "media error".

I could not format it.

[pancrj1]

Hi Ian,
Thank you for your detailed reply.
I always create a "multi" track file and then either "punch in" or used main/sub and bounce. I have had the keyboard for six months (I bought it new) and I have successfully recorded voice and keys without any issues   

'Simple' audio file  does not work either.
I have never copied from USB on to hard drive , and then play it back from there. I will try that and let you know. My guess is that when I add tracks on "multi" it still will show the error. It is frustrating. I never had this problem with my Tyros 3. I do not want to upgrade to Tyros 5 due to its external functionality to manage the expansion packs.

I have never loaded styles on to hard disk. I always use the expansion memory or USB. I tried to record through midi file (the left side of the key board) and then added vocals through creating a "multi/single Aud file and even that does not work. I have tried  to replace the HD by installing a new 500 gig hard drive. It does allow me to format it. I called the Yamaha tech in US and they do not service us in Canada. our Canadian Yamaha did not have much to say about the issue, but asked me to bring it to them and leave it with them (2 week minimum) , which I am not in favor of doing as I need the key board daily.

I appreciate any advice you can give.
Thanks!!!!
Joe


Regards

[EileenL]

If you get the message media error then it does sound like the hard drive. The original ones fitted were 250Gb. Two or three people I know have had there hard drives replaced Also of course it can be the holder it goes into Make sure the USB is fitted tightly.

[pancrj1]

Will do. Thank You!

[tyrosaurus]

Hi Joe,

The internal hard disk on a Tyros4 connects to the keyboard via a SATA to USB interface card which is fixed to the actual disk case with small bolts.  You presumably are aware of this if you have changed the drive!

The interface board has a mini USB socket which connects to a cable from the main circuit board.  The plugs on this cable have been known to come loose at one end or the other.  I think that this is what EileenL is referring to, and is certainly worth checking.

The reason that I asked if the disk was working for other files was to see if it is working at all.  If you open a file selection screen, the style screen for example, is the disk listed in the tabs at the top of the screen (as HD1)?

If it isn't, and you are sure that the hard disk cable is correctly connected at each end inside the keyboard, then there is probably a fault.

This could be with the hard disk, but if you have tried a new disk this is unlikely.  (I assume that you transferred the interface card from the old disk to the new one!)

It could be with the SATA/USB interface card itself.  This failed on my own T4, although I was able to ascertain that the the disk itself was working fine.

You can check the disk and the interface card by removing the disk in it's caddy, then connecting it to your computer using a suitable USB lead with the correct mini plug on one end.  The disk should appear as a drive in Windows Explorer if you expand 'Computer'.  If it doesn't then the fault is most likely to be with the interface card since the disk is new.

Yamaha UK would only sell me a new hard disk complete with the interface, and they wanted a stupid amount of money for it (£242 GBP! and that didn't include fitting which is a simple job that should take only a few minutes!   Note that the same model of Seagate 250 GB hard disk cost around £40 brand new at that time, so they were trying to charge £200 for the interface card!!!  ) 

Knowing that my disk itself was fine and declining Yamaha's kind offer, I purchased an enclosure for a USB 2.0  external 2.5 inch SATA laptop hard drive which of course contains an interface. I deliberately looked for one with the same mini USB socket as the original interface card so that I could connect the cable without needing to use an adapter.  This cost around £6 GBP from Amazon, and I plugged the original T4 hard disk into the interface from the enclosure and connected it to the T4.  It has worked fine for a year now.  In fact I have recently tried the disk in a USB 3.0 version of the same enclosure because the USB 2 ones are becoming harder to find and I wanted a spare interface, and this also works fine in the T4.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GSWT4HY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

I have also tried this with a SSD which also works fine in the T4, but obviously because it is connecting to the painfully slow Yamaha USB 2.0 bus, there is no significant speed advantage in the keyboard, but it is very much faster when I connect the drive to a USB 3 port on my computer to back up the Tyros disk.

So if you haven't already got one, you could get a similar enclosure to enable you to check if it is the original Yamaha interface card that is faulty. If it turns out to the problem is with the interface, you could simply use the one from the enclosure, unless you are happy to swell Yamaha's profits!  I actually discarded the outer case of my enclosure and just used the interface from it, which allowed the disk to fit securely back in the caddy, which if you are transporting the keyboard regularly is probably a good idea.

Even if the problem is not with the disk or the interface card, you will only have spent a small sum, and you have an empty portable hard disk enclosure which you can use with a hard drive if you have one lying around (maybe the original from the T4).

Of course if this indicates that both the disk and the Yamaha interface are OK, it probably means that the problem is on the main Tyros4 circuit board, and you will probably have to have a new board fitted, since most service technicians these days won't (can't !  ) troubleshoot circuit boards, they simply change them!

If you do think the problem is with the main board, it would be worth contacting Yamaha to see if they are prepared to help.


Regards

Ian

[pancrj1]

Ian, Thank You!
I will try your suggestions this week. I have already tried two hard disks which I bought. I transferred the interface and connected to the computer and formatted it. Then I formatted it again on the key board. I was able to connect one HD to the computer but the other did not work. However, when I format it on the keyboard, it does not format (comes up as Media error). Being not a computer guy, it is really hard for me to diagnose the defect. is there an alternative way to bypass the hard drive and record on a USB? When I create a multi track file it seems to create it on the HD and not on the USB even if it is connected.

I will also take it to the local Yamaha tech people this week as a last resort

Again I very much appreciate your willingness to help.
Thank You!!!

[tyrosaurus]

The Tyros4 and other Tyros models can only record audio to the internal hard disk.  You can't record to USB I'm afraid.

If you were able to connect and format a hard disk to your computer using the Yamaha SATA/USB interface card, this presumably means that the interface (and disk drive) is working correctly.

However if you use Windows 7 to format the drive, it is likely to default to formatting it as NTFS  unless you specifically tell it to format as FAT32 which is what the Tyros4 requires.

When you format a drive using the Tyros4, it will format it as FAT32 and create the 'AUDIOREC.ROOT' folder which is used for Multi Track audio recording.

I don't know what happens if you try to record a multi track audio without this folder being present.  It is possible that the keyboard OS may simply create the folder the first time that you try a Multi Track recording if it is not already there!

You said "I have already tried two hard disks which I bought.  I transferred the interface and connected to the computer and formatted it. Then I formatted it again on the key board. I was able to connect one HD to the computer but the other did not work. However, when I format it on the keyboard, it does not format (comes up as Media error)."

This is a bit confusing, but it sounds as if you have one hard disk that you can connect to the computer, and have also been able to format using the Tyros4.  Is this the case?  Have you been able to format one of the new hard disks using the Tyros4?

When I had the problem with my own Tyros4 hard disk, out of interest I tried connecting a USB memory stick to the T4's internal  hard disk cable (using a suitable plug/socket adapter).  The device connected to the keyboard and appeared as another USB rather than as HD1 as I was expecting, so presumably the keyboard can interrogate and identify the type of device connected.  I didn't try to record audio to it but I suspect that it would not have worked!  However this at least confirmed that the T4 internal USB cable was connected to the T4 main board.

So you could try to do the same if you are not sure that the USB cable on your T4 is correctly connected to the main board.  If you do this and the device does not appear in the drive options, then this suggests either that the cable is not connected at the main board end, or that there is a fault with the cable itself or the USB interface on the main board.  However if you were really able to format one of the new hard drives in the Tyros4, then neither of these possibilities would appear to be the problem!

Please confirm if you can save and load files such as styles or voices to the hard disk that is currently installed in your T4.


Regards

Ian
 

[pancrj1]

Hi Ian,
Thanks again. I have not been able to format any of my hard disks which I bought, through T4.However, when I put the original, it gets formatted. So I replaced with the original HD (Toshiba 2.5' 250gig). When a multi file gets created, the error still appears as "disk is busy). I have taken the key board to the Yamaha tech and now it is a matter of waiting and hoping that they can figure what the problem was. I will update once I get the keyboard back. One thing I did not test is the copying the styles to the HD. I always used USB sticks.

Best Regards

Joe

[pancrj1]

Hi Ian,

The Yamaha tech (the keyboard is at their premises now)  thinks it is the DM board which has to be replaced. It could cost 700 quid and has to be ordered. Not sure what to do next. It is a brand new keyboard. Strange that the DM board is gone.  In Canada I do not think the techies are familiar with Tyros at all.
Any tips?

Cheers
Joe

[tyrosaurus]

Hi Joe,

The HD is indeed connected to the USB Host  chip which is on the DM board.   However this same device also acts as the host for the two USB 'To Device' sockets, which from your posts seem to be still working!   In addition to the data lines, the disk also needs a 5 volt power supply, all supplied by the one USB cable that connects to the hard drive.  If you had the keyboard you could check that the 5 volt supply was available to the HD without even opening the case.

However wherever the problem lies, a service centre is unlikely to replace a chip or component on a circuit board, even if it is obvious what the problem is!  All they want to do (and in many cases these days, probably all they know how to do) is to replace the complete board.  This assumes that the actual cable is correctly connected to the socket on the DM board, but I would expect even the most inept  technician to be able to spot that!   

If the keyboard is only six months old, surely the repair should be carried out under warranty at Yamaha's expense! 


Regards

Ian

[pancrj1]

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the response. I bought the Key Board in the UK and brought it to Canada. Unfortunately the repair is not covered by guarantee. You had mentioned that I could check the 5 V power supply. Ho would I check that? (sorry for the stupid question). In fact the HD records for 5 seconds before the error comes up. So can I assume that the power supply is working?

I asked the technician if they checked the USB cable connected to the DM side. They said no. If the HD would not even record for 5 seconds if it was not connected properly to the DM. I did not argue.

Frustrating indeed.
I really appreciate your input. In the interim they have ordered the DM as they have none in the shop.
Joe

[tyrosaurus]

Hi Joe,

Have you contacted Yamaha - Canada directly or did you decide to take the keyboard to a service centre yourself?

Wherever you purchased the keyboard, I would expect Yamaha to honour their guarantee for a six month old Tyros4 anywhere in the world!

If you have not already done so, you should contact Yamaha - Canada, or even Yamaha UK directly to see what they have to say about this issue.

If you do, please report back on your experience.  I'm sure that there are plenty of members of this forum who would be eager to know just how much Yamaha really care for their customers!


Regards

Ian

[pancrj1]

Hi Ian,
I contacted Yamaha Toronto and they asked for the bill of sale and decided not to cover. I took it to them myself. I called the US Yamaha  and they were not willing to cover Canadian customers.I will contact Yamaha -Milton Keynes and report back on the experience

Thanks again for your abundant help and advice
We really appreciate it

Joe

[bigdaddyNL]

Hi all, this is an old topic but I guess still much searched on. I seem to have found a fix for the 'drive is busy error' and will just past my experienc. Might have been good luck, but so far I have not seen the error again.

I was in the transition for preparating to change my HDD to an SSD too because of the 'drive is busy' error. So I hooked the Tyros up to the PC, put it in 'direct access mode', copied all from HDD to my PC. Then connected the SSD to my PC, had to assign logical drive letter, formatted and restored data. Then, just to check, before opening the Tyros, I selected a recorded audio. It started playing, but gave no sound at all. But no drive busy error. Restarted the Tyros, still no sound on recorded audio playback. Then I tried to do a 'simple recording' which always failed with the drive busy error. To my surprise I was able to record a complete song without error. And, lo and behold, I was able to play it back and had sound back. It now even plays my old recorded songs again! So for me it seems to have been an issue with the audio-to-hdd and hdd-to-audio conversion rather than a disk error. Will most possibly go ahead and insert the SSD, but this might help readers up here. And the audio-to-hdd and hdd-to-audio is just my wild guess, not technically proven.

[meyrick]

Just to cover a point on this subject. I bought my Tyros 4 from the US and it was shipped to Thailand. having a similar problem re: the hard drive, I checked for Warranty cover. Both Yamaha US and Thailand refused to have anything to do with the Warranty and would offer no suggestions as to the problem.