Hi Guys,

Been a few years since I had my computer connected to a keyboard and never to my Genos. I was wondering if there is a quick way to record a performance live on the Genos and have Sonar record it on the correct individual tracks, or do I have to do it track by track?

Thanks for your help,

Rick D.

Hi,

I'm not too familiar with arrangers like the Genos, but as far as I know, there is no way to send multiple channels of audio from the Genos to your computer. Therefore, in order to record each keyboard part simultaneously to individual tracks in Sonar, you have to record them as MIDI tracks.

First off, if you haven't already, install the Yamaha USB-MIDI driver on your computer. Connect the USB cable between your Genos' To Host port and an unused USB port on your computer (please make a direct connection; USB hubs will usually cause problems), and then power on your Genos. You should get a confirmation sound from the computer when the Genos is recognized.

Now start Sonar, and make sure that all the Genos' MIDI input and output ports ("Digital Workstation") are recognized and activated in Sonar's Preferences -> MIDI -> Devices menu.

You may also want to download and unzip an instrument definition file for the Genos. In Sonar's Preferences -> Instruments menu, you can import (define) this file and select it for all the listed Genos channels. This will allow Sonar to display the selected voice for each track, and is also convenient if you want to change the voice settings later.

In Sonar, starting with a blank project, you would now add 16 MIDI tracks. Make sure each track uses the Genos ("Digital Workstation 1") as its MIDI input device, and then set each track to separate (1-16) channels. Arm all the tracks for recording, click the Record button, and away you go!

There are plenty more details to get into, of course, such as how to synchronize Sonar to the Genos' tempo/MIDI clock. There's also the MIDI settings on the Genos itself (such as those related to style playback output, etc.), where I won't be of much help. I would recommend using the search function on this forum for more information on that. The Cakewalk forum and the Yamaha Musicians forum may have more info, so search there as well. Also check out Casper's video (English captions are available) to get you rolling.

- H -

Quote from: Rick D. on November 05, 2024, 10:41:08 AMHi Guys,

Been a few years since I had my computer connected to a keyboard and never to my Genos. I was wondering if there is a quick way to record a performance live on the Genos and have Sonar record it on the correct individual tracks, or do I have to do it track by track? ...

Hi Rick,

In my opinion, the best method is to first make a MIDI recording directly on the Genos (the easiest way is with MIDI Quick Recording). You then copy this MIDI file onto a USB stick, connect it to the computer and import the MIDI file into the DAW program you are using, e.g. Cakewalk/Sonar/Cubase etc.

If you only get one track in the DAW, you then have to "split it into MIDI channels". (This function is called differently depending on the DAW.)

The advantage of the method just described is that you automatically have all the MIDI initialization data you need (e.g. Control Change, Program Change, System Exclusive Messages) in the DAW. The song will therefore sound exactly the same in the DAW via the Genos connected via USB-MIDI as it does when played directly on the Genos.

On the Genos, I recommend using one of the preset MIDI templates "All Parts" or "KBD & Style". The difference is that with "All Parts" each activated Right Part (R1, R2, R3) is sent separately on its own channel, with "KBD & Style" the "UPPER" keyboard area (= R1+R2+R3 Parts) is always sent on channel 1 and the "LOWER" keyboard area (= Left Part) on channel 2.

In the DAW, you set the "Digital Workstation 1" or "Digital Keyboard 1" port of the USB-MIDI driver as the MIDI output port for all 16 MIDI channels. This will address the 16 SONG parts of the Genos, just like when playing a MIDI file internally directly on the Genos.

For the sake of completeness: If "Digital Workstation 2" or "Digital Keyboard 2" is used, the DAW will address the Genos KEYBOARD parts directly. This is normally NOT desired. In addition, the sound produced will usually be different when the MIDI is later played as usual via the SONG parts of the Genos.

Regarding the Yamaha USB-MIDI Driver:
It is important that the keyboard, in your case the Genos1, is connected to the computer via a USB cable BEFORE starting the driver installation, otherwise the installation cannot be completed. Please note that the current USB-MIDI Driver (V3.1.4) is available as a 32-bit and 64-bit version. For current Windows (10/11) systems, please use the 64-bit version.
>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos/downloads.html

For the sake of completeness: Some models, such as the Genos2, require the "Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver" (which has Audio and MIDI functionality). This driver must be installed BEFORE the keyboard is connected to the computer via a USB cable.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Hi H and Chris,

Thank you both for your in-depth answers. Thanks to an older post by Chris that I printed out last year, I had installed the USB driver and got the keyboard communicating with Sonar following his instructions. I have also  installed the IDF's for the Genos. I did have a few problems though as I also use a Yamaha MFC10 pedal board on MIDI B Channel 16, but got it working pretty good.

I was just wondering if there was a way to record 16 tracks from the Genos, but I think Chris is right,  it might be easier to do a Quick Record on the Genos and then bring it over to the PC for tweaking. I will definitely try H's method too and decide which I like better.

The only glitch I am having now is if I have Sonar running on the PC and I select the All Parts template to make Sonar work properly it messes up my MFC10 button assignments for one of the buttons not all. When I originally set my MFC10 up I had to create a USER Template to make it work. As a work around when I have Sonar running and want to play the Genos and have the MFC10 work properly I just have to switch back and forth between All Parts and my User Template. Not sure if this is normal or can be remedied.

Thanks again for all your help, I learned a lot from you both,

Rick D.

H,

I just checked out all of your suggested links in your reply, they will be very helpful as time goes by.

Thanks again,

Rick D.

For non-arranger keyboards like the MODX I would use Geirs method, but for arrangers like the Genos, Chris method will save you a lot of headache.

When I got my first arranger (Genos 1), I tried to use Geirs method because that was the method I always use and was comfortable with. However, I found out it was really difficult to record styles to midi in a DAW and the result didn't sound the same as when played directly on the Genos.

I then learned that in order to get the same result, I had to use the built-in midi recorder in Genos. I normaly use the midi multi recorder because I like to record each channels to separate tracs, but like Chris say, you can split the midi file to invidual tracks after import in to your DAW.

Cheers
/Jugge

Quote from: Rick D. on November 06, 2024, 11:37:12 PM... The only glitch I am having now is if I have Sonar running on the PC and I select the All Parts template to make Sonar work properly it messes up my MFC10 button assignments for one of the buttons not all. When I originally set my MFC10 up I had to create a USER Template to make it work. As a work around when I have Sonar running and want to play the Genos and have the MFC10 work properly I just have to switch back and forth between All Parts and my User Template. Not sure if this is normal or can be remedied. ...

Thanks for your detailed feedback, Rick!

The solution for this would be to combine the settings of your MFC10 template with the settings of the "All Part" template. Basically, all the settings you need can exist in a single MIDI template at the same time. Only the settings of Port 1 (Transmit and Receive) are needed for the connection to the computer. The MFC10 uses Port 2 (MIDI B IN) anyway, so it has nothing to do with the settings needed for Sonar.

I would first document the settings used for the MFC10 under "External Controller". Then you select the preset template "All Parts", make the same settings there under External Controller, save it as a new user template and only use this one template in the future.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I will give that a try and let you know how I make out.

Thanks,

Rick D.

Quote from: jugge on November 07, 2024, 01:37:00 PMFor non-arranger keyboards like the MODX I would use Geirs method, but for arrangers like the Genos, Chris method will save you a lot of headache.

When I got my first arranger (Genos 1), I tried to use Geirs method because that was the method I always use and was comfortable with. However, I found out it was really difficult to record styles to midi in a DAW and the result didn't sound the same as when played directly on the Genos.

I then learned that in order to get the same result, I had to use the built-in midi recorder in Genos. I normaly use the midi multi recorder because I like to record each channels to separate tracs, but like Chris say, you can split the midi file to invidual tracks after import in to your DAW.
Cheers
/Jugge

Hi Jugge,

I did as Chris instructed and loaded a Quick Recorded Midi from Genos into Cakewalk with a USB stick. Track #1 had two instruments on one track.  I can't figure out how to split the midi file into individual tracks in Cakewalk Sonar Pro. Any pointers? It seems Split means to Split a track into segments, not separate two instruments on one track into separate tracks.

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks Rick D.

Quote from: overover on November 07, 2024, 02:41:03 PM

Quote from: Rick D. on November 06, 2024, 11:37:12 PM... The only glitch I am having now is if I have Sonar running on the PC and I select the All Parts template to make Sonar work properly it messes up my MFC10 button assignments for one of the buttons not all. When I originally set my MFC10 up I had to create a USER Template to make it work. As a work around when I have Sonar running and want to play the Genos and have the MFC10 work properly I just have to switch back and forth between All Parts and my User Template. Not sure if this is normal or can be remedied. ...

Thanks for your detailed feedback, Rick!

The solution for this would be to combine the settings of your MFC10 template with the settings of the "All Part" template. Basically, all the settings you need can exist in a single MIDI template at the same time. Only the settings of Port 1 (Transmit and Receive) are needed for the connection to the computer. The MFC10 uses Port 2 (MIDI B IN) anyway, so it has nothing to do with the settings needed for Sonar.

I would first document the settings used for the MFC10 under "External Controller". Then you select the preset template "All Parts", make the same settings there under External Controller, save it as a new user template and only use this one template in the future.


Best regards,
Chris

Chris,

I followed your instructions and it worked perfectly, I now use one setting and it works for both MFC10 and Sonar.
This will surely save me a lot of time and agro.

I still have not been able to figure out how to split a Quick MIDI Record done on the Genos in Sonar.  So for now I add 16 Midi tracks and assign them all to different channels and the recording works fine, I just have to figure out how to get the instruments used on the keyboard to play in Sonar. I do have the INF's for Genos installed.

Thanks so much for all your help and everyone else who has replied as well.

Rick D.

Hi Rick,

I use Cubase myself and there the fuction is called "Dissolve Part". I basically just select the midi track and and from the midi menu choose "disolve part"

The function then scans the midi track for events on different MIDI channels and distributes the events into new parts on new tracks, one for each MIDI channel found.

The same function can also be used to split a drum track, but instead of looking for events on different MIDI channels, it will look for events using different pitches and split it onto separate tracks.

Unfortunatly I dont know what the same function is called in Sonar, but I hope someone here that are using Sonar can help out.

/Jugge

Quote from: jugge on November 08, 2024, 09:40:37 AMUnfortunatly I dont know what the same function is called in Sonar, but I hope someone here that are using Sonar can help out.

I don't think there's a need to. Sonar does this automatically when you load a Standard MIDI Format 0 file. It also "collapses" a multi-track MIDI project to a single track if you save as MIDI Format 0.

- H -

Hi, H,

I will have to check to see what format the Genos records in Midi. I did try a Quick Record and there were a couple of instruments on Track 1. I am stubborn, so I am confident I will get to the bottom of it with some help from the forum.

Thanks for your help,

Rick D.

Hi Rick,

I looked in manuals for various Sonar versions, and everywhere it said that when loading a MIDI file in SMF0 format, a separate track is automatically created for each MIDI channel it contains.

Incidentally, all Yamaha arranger keyboards always save in SMF0 format (i.e. there is only one track that contains all MIDI events of all channels used). The still popular program PSRUTI also always saves in SMF0 format.

When opening/importing an SMF0 MIDI file, depending on the DAW used and the corresponding settings, either several (up to 16) tracks are automatically created (by MIDI channel), or you do this manually afterwards. Unfortunately, this function is not named consistently across different DAWs.

For the sake of completeness: Multiple tracks are possible with the SMF1 format (including multiple tracks that use the same MIDI channel). Yamaha arranger models can load SMF1 MIDI files, but as mentioned, they always save in SMF0 format.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

I will play around with it some more today, now that you have explained how it works. It has been so long since I used Cakewalk, it is like starting over completely.

I will let you know how I make out.

Thanks for all your help,

Rick D.

Quote from: overover on November 08, 2024, 06:26:21 PMHi Rick,

I looked in manuals for various Sonar versions, and everywhere it said that when loading a MIDI file in SMF0 format, a separate track is automatically created for each MIDI channel it contains.

Incidentally, all Yamaha arranger keyboards always save in SMF0 format (i.e. there is only one track that contains all MIDI events of all channels used). The still popular program PSRUTI also always saves in SMF0 format.

When opening/importing an SMF0 MIDI file, depending on the DAW used and the corresponding settings, either several (up to 16) tracks are automatically created (by MIDI channel), or you do this manually afterwards. Unfortunately, this function is not named consistently across different DAWs.

For the sake of completeness: Multiple tracks are possible with the SMF1 format (including multiple tracks that use the same MIDI channel). Yamaha arranger models can load SMF1 MIDI files, but as mentioned, they always save in SMF0 format.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

After Playing around a little more, I found that your information is correct.

I also found as you stated earlier, doing a Quick Midi Record on the Genos and bringing it to the computer is far easier than trying to do a 16 track recording in Sonar from scratch.

Trying to set the Sonar to play the same sounds the Genos is playing is painstakingly slow. The way you suggested does all of that tedious work for you.

Thanks for all your help,

Rick D.