Octave change for voices in Style Creator

[DaPaleRider]

Hi all,

I am changing a style and wonder if I can change the octave of a voice. It is one octave to high. The origional voice is a megavoice but when I change it to a preset voice it is to high.

[BogdanH]

You can change octave of a single track in StepEdit: select all notes and increase/decrease notes by 12 semitones.

Keep in mind that you should not replace MegaVoice with a normal voice -the track will definitely not sound properly. Changing octave is not a solution; try to replace with similar MegaVoice instead.

Bogdan

[Ronbo]

Bogden,

Nice to see you active here on the forum.

We can always use your responses

regards

Ron j

[DaPaleRider]

You can change octave of a single track in StepEdit: select all notes and increase/decrease notes by 12 semitones.

Keep in mind that you should not replace MegaVoice with a normal voice -the track will definitely not sound properly. Changing octave is not a solution; try to replace with similar MegaVoice instead.

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan,

I never realized that about MegaVoices and styles. I know that MegaVoices can't be used as a normal voice because they are built for styles. What I didn't know is that you can't use normal voices in styles. Always thought that was possible. Thanks for your answer.

[ckobu]

Hi DePaleRider
Watch this video about MegaVoice.

[BogdanH]

@DaPaleRider
We need to understand the reason why MV voices are only usable in styles and once we do, we will also know why we can't simply replace them with normal voices.
I recommend that you download Guets are not allowed to view links. In order to access the links, please Register or Login and take a look at MegaVoice section. Let's see NylonGuitar MV, which is the first in the list. As you can see, it's sound properties are defined by velocities and by octaves.

For notes up to B5:     For notes C6-B7:     For notes C8 and above:
Velocity Sound          Velocity Sound       Velocity Sound
  1-20   Open soft      1-127  Strum noise   1-127 Fret noise
 21-40   Open medium
 41-60   Open hard
 61-75   Dead
 76-90   Mute
 91-105  Hammer
106-120  Slide
121-127  Harmonics

A normal voice looks like this

For all notes:
Velocity Sound
  1-127  Soft...Medium...Hard

If we compare normal and MV voice then we can see, that by replacing MV with normal voice, the sound will be the same only if notes are below C6 and if velocities are smaller than 61. But we should keep in mind that, for example, MV note at velocity 60 has the same loudness as normal note at velocity 127. In short: MV voice has note loudness divided into 60 steps, but normal voice notes have 127 loudness steps.
So what happens if we use MV and play a note at velocity of 80? We will hear muted string at moderate loudness (here loudness is divided into 15 steps: 76-90). If we now replace MV with a normal voice, we will hear quite loud normal sounding guitar string instead of muted string.

What Casper is showing in his video, is a solution for notes C6 and above -that is, we simply delete those notes. However, the solution is not that simple for notes below C6, because in this case, the resulting sound depends on velocities.
Please, watch this video (you can start watching in the middle). Such guitar strumming can only be achieved by using MV in style. And if we would later replace MV with normal voice, the result won't be even close -it simply can't be.

Bogdan

[MadrasGiaguari]

Hello Bogdan,

nice to see you here!

About your statement "You can change octave of a single track in StepEdit: select all notes and increase/decrease notes by 12 semitones.", for tracks different but Rythm1 and 2, when I attempt (Genos1) to Step Edit, a message says that the track will be deleted before editing. So, how can I edit a deleted track to shift an octave (or any other change)?
Or is needed a specific software, like Jørgen Sørensen one? (I can't run his interesting programs on my Mac...).

Thank you

Angelo

[BogdanH]

hi Angelo 
I assume you're talking about preset styles -but what I will tell is true for all styles.

From what I have seen, all preset styles (particular tracks actually) are "locked". By using some 3rd party software, it's relative simple to unlock such tracks on PC (I have no idea if such software for Mac exists). After the style is unlocked and copied back to keyboard, all tracks are enabled for editing.

But that doesn't necessary mean that we can actually edit them. It can still happen, that we get that famous "the content must be deleted first.." message for some tracks when we try to open them in StepEdit. Actually that will happen for most preset styles (even if they're unlocked).

The reason is quite simple: if track is using chord variation (CV), then we can not edit that particular track on keyboard. That's because Yamaha didn't implement CV feature in Style Creator. If you're interested what's all about (how it works and how to solve the problem), please see this video that I have made:
Chord Variations (CV) in Yamaha styles
-again, I don't know if such a solution exists for Mac.

And to answer the question "then why can I always edit Rhy1 and Rhy2 track?" -that's because we can not have CV on those two tracks.

Greetings, Bogdan

[Simone1972]

Very interesting video Bogdan, you have a very Deep expertise on this matter.
My personal opinion Is that it's a shame that Yamaha forces such limitations in the "creating environment" of 3-4k$ keyboard...

Chord variation Is not the only one unfortunately.

Regards

[BogdanH]

hi Simone,
I'm glad you find the video informative 
Same as you, I simply can't understand why CV's aren't "available" on Yamaha arrangers, although Yamaha itself is using them in preset styles. My guess is, that Yamaha simply didn't bother to implement necessary options in Style Creator -probably thinking that Yamaha buyers aren't "that much" creative 

Greetings, Bogdan

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear Bogdan,

your post is very clear, as usual, and it answers 100% my question.

Now (for the first time...) I understand this matter.

I'm very familiar with the concept of Chord Variation, since it was very common to edit ANY Track and CV on my past Korg arrangers (I3, I30, Pa1X, Pa3x, all excellent). So now, thank to your kind and clear explanations, I can realize why I edit the Drum/Percussions Tracks and cannot do the same on other tracks. It is a pity, while Korg allows deep editing an all tracks. At least I wish Yamaha would have implemented an Octave Shift function, that would be very useful in many cases, at least on Genos2. But that is a useless consideration....

Thanks again, Bogdan, and take care. If you pass by Rome, let me know in advance, to may arrange for a nice plate of spaghetti alla carbonara (my guest), and a pleasant music session (I have Genos and a Clavinova).

Ciao

Angelo

[ckobu]

The Octave +/- function in Style Creator would be useful sometimes, but such a large shift of notes by one octave would be used very rarely. What Yamaha offers is much better and more precise. Turn on English subtitles and watch from 05:28

[BogdanH]

@Angelo
Yes, Korg is much more advanced in this regard.
Some will maybe say that CV's are not really that important for making good styles. That's because many don't realize the endless possibilities that we have with CV. Here's another short demo that I have made, where CV is used for different purpose:
Chord "walk-in" demo
-here we can see, that when I play Sus2 or Sus4 chord (just before changing the major chord), only note sequence changes (not the chord).

@ckobu
Very good video -I'm sure I have watched all your videos and learned a lot at that 
Yes, there are many ways of how we can solve some problem and the solution that we use, depends from case to case. For octave shift, using note limitations will usually solve the problem. But it can also happen that shifting the notes is the only solution. I would say, depends on the content of the track and what exactly we wish to achieve.

Greetings, Bogdan

[ckobu]

@BogdanH - that's right, it mostly depends on what part the bass guitar is playing. From my experience, octave change in Style is very rarely used on Preset sounds. It is often needed with Custom Voices and that is because the sample string is set in the wrong way, i.e. placed an octave lower or higher. We know very well that the lowest note of the bass guitar is E0. I have seen a Custom Voice where it is extended and deeper (E-1) but it sounds like E0 is being played.
In this case, Oktava +/- within the Style Creator helps best. Then this function serves us to correct the incorrect sampled tone, and not to fine-tune the Style.