Help wanted in Southwest Florida

[donmac875]

Hi everyone. I'm a fairly new member of the forum, a resident of sunny Florida on the southwest corner, somewhat close to the hurricane wrecked area of Sanibel Island and Ft Myers Beach. I would be in the running for the winner of a contest to determine the oldest active member of the forum; if the Lord leaves me here on earth another couple of months I'll be just 6 years from having lived to be 100. Seeking to keep my mind active and learning new things is a joy but more and more challenging as age creeps on.

Compared to so many of you I am new at this musical arranger game and seeking assistance in some of what I would call the details of the inner workings of the Genos. I am not satisfied with the sounds produced from many of the styles I'm using and would like to learn to alter some to my liking and to create new ones.

I would also appreciate assistance in the tuning of settings in the Mixer, vocal sounds, how to effectively use Pads etc. I have read through the User Manual a half dozen times, printed out and read through the Reference Manual, read the entire PSRTutorial, watched videos on the subjects of "compression", "EQ", etc. but I am left with a jumble of settings that are meaningless because with my oftentimes senseless tinkling I've ruined something that now requires a reset to factory settings to be useful at all.

I also have a very high pitched squeal coming from the left speaker which I also hear in my headphones. I believe I have isolated it to Strings and Organ voices but I have no inclination as to how to proceed.

This, my first post, is made with great hope that some member of the forum resides somewhat close to where I am and would be willing to give personal assistance. I am certainly willing to respond with financial compensation. Suggestions, recommendations, or criticism are welcome as learning opportunities.

In my short time here I am amazed at the experience and knowledge displayed by many.

Off topic... In reading through many pages of comments on this forum I do not recall any mention of a gathering, convention, or similar event ever being held to bring members together for the benefit of all. Is that due to lack of interest, leadership, opportunity or none of the above?

My best to each of you.

DonMac

 

[Divemaster]

Hi Donmac

Just read and admired your post.
Although I'm not in the USA I think it's mostly because membership is worldwide that we don't have meetings as such, but in the past I have helped members in the UK and Ireland.
Let's hope somebody picks up on your request, and can help you out.
Welcome to you
Keith.

[EileenL]

There are quite a few meetings in the UK but we are a much smaller country and most can travel to theses meetings if they want to. I used to run a yearly meeting for my forum members every year and always had a Yamaha tech chap there to help out with any problems. Unfortunately age took over and people could no longer travel.
  I hope you can find some one close who can give you hands on help.
As for EQ and compressor settings I found the Yamaha ones to be OK for most things.

[donmac875]

Divemaster and Eileen. Thank you for your welcome and kind response.

Don

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi donmac and welcome aboard!

Most people who take the plunge into a Genos as their first arranger are overwhelmed by the complexity and opportunities to make music. The good news is, you can use the most basic functions and still sound like a pro.

We are a scattered bunch of users, which means getting together at a certain location is next to impossible. All is not lost though. If you want personal instruction, it would be fruitful to set up a camera above your Genos, and use Zoom or Microsoft Teams to harness some help from someone. We would need to know what specific things you wish to cover. If someone here is willing to help you through this sort of connection, I doubt they would charge for their services. We enjoy helping one another comb through the various bumps along the way.

Having said that, why not compile exactly what you're wanting to achieve. You mentioned editing some of the settings for a better sound. That is possible but let's go over the basics first. We need to know what sound gear you're using, your current setup...etc. Are you using the Genos speakers, studio monitors, or some other type of speakers? Are you using the microphone to add vocals? Let's start with those things and go from there.

- Lee (just east of Toronto by 75 miles or so)

[donmac875]

Thanks Lee... those are things that had not even come to mind. I didn't understand how Zoom would work with the instrument in one room, computer in another. Never used a camera or the recording functions.

My current setup: Genos 1 with all current Yamaha updates; One Yamaha pedal used as sustain; Yamaha basic speakers (2 attached to top of instrument, and sub-woofer). No mic. I don't anticipate the use of a mic for singing. Any singing will be for my own enjoyment however I can see the possible need for virtual communication. No other accessories.

My interest is limited to Christian/Gospel, Country/Western, Easy Classical genres. Playing will be for my own enjoyment but I won't enjoy it if it isn't pleasant to the ear. I had practically no music instrument experience prior to 18 months ago. Can now play basic chords, inversions, and scales in 5 keys major and minor playing from printed sheet music/hymnals. Keys I can't play I transpose to a key with which I am familiar.

I have made an attempt to find a local person to teach/assist but teachers with knowledge/experience with electronic arrangers, particularly the Genos seem to be few and far between.

In order to embark on what you have recommended I would need assistance and recommendations for purchasing the necessary equipment. Perhaps I'm trying to conquer a bridge too far. Your welcome and comment are greatly appreciated.

My best to you.

Don

[pjd]

I also have a very high pitched squeal coming from the left speaker which I also hear in my headphones. I believe I have isolated it to Strings and Organ voices but I have no inclination as to how to proceed.

Hi Donmac --

I'm as far away from Florida as one can get in the contiguous USA.  We had a great vacation on Sanibel Island and were saddened by the damage done. Best of luck!

Do you hear that high pitched squeal all the time or only when playing? If it's all the time, then it is likely an electrical problem of some sort.

Welcome to the Forum -- pj

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi donmac,

Is it easy to move your Genos close to your computer? If so, that would be a good start. An inexpensive USB camera can be purchased locally. It would operate with any of the USB inputs on your computer. The camera has a program called a "driver" that acts as a connection between the camera and your computer. The driver is downloaded from the internet. The price would be minimal. If you can get that far, you'd be accessible to the world 😀, which means any of us. Further thoughts?

- Lee

[EileenL]

If you have the Accoup. Button on but don't have the style playing when you play a chord you will hear certain voices from the style usually strings of some sort. This maybe what you are hearing.

[donmac875]

To PJD & Eileen:
"Do you hear that high pitched squeal all the time or only when playing? If it's all the time, then it is likely an electrical problem of some sort".

The squeal comes only when I play certain notes while ACMP is active and a String or Organ voice is "ON". For instance, Right 1 and 2 are ON with an organ voice on R1 and a string voice ON R2. No squeal for 4 or 5 measures, then a playing a note, usually an octove+ higher than the starting note, causes a squeal only in the left speaker. Silencing one of the voices indicates which voice causes the squeal. However, changing that voice to another string or organ sometimes eliminates the squeal, sometimes not. I have not noticed the squeal in any other voice category yet.

Thanks.

Don

[Lee Batchelor]

Don, this idea is a long shot. Would you by chance have hearing aids? Certain high frequency overtones can initiate a feedback loop in a hearing aid that only you would hear. It got me thinking when you said it was only coming out of the left channel. Do you have anyone else in your home who can listen? Just firing out ideas at this time.

It's very rare to have an audio failure in the Genos. It doesn't sound like a cabling issue either. Such a problem would sound like a hum, hiss, or crackling.

- Lee

[donmac875]

Hi donmac,

Is it easy to move your Genos close to your computer? If so, that would be a good start. An inexpensive USB camera can be purchased locally. It would operate with any of the USB inputs on your computer. The camera has a program called a "driver" that acts as a connection between the camera and your computer. The driver is downloaded from the internet. The price would be minimal. If you can get that far, you'd be accessible to the world 😀, which means any of us. Further thoughts?

- Lee

I'll have to think this through. I am in a retirement community with not a lot of space but it is certainly worth considering. My computer is an Apple desktop (iMac 27"), a laptop or iPad would be workable if I get a monitor. I only have vision in 1 eye and I have to change to different glasses just to read from sheet music on the music stand. I will give this idea serious consideration. Thanks much for your interest and care.

Don

Just read your latest... no hearing aids. I live alone, independently, not assisted living. Your question regarding hearing was the first question asked by the support person at Yamaha. I had my hearing checked. The specialist could find nothing but I would not rule out the possibility of specific high frequencies being a problem just for me.

[donmac875]

Hi Donmac --

I'm as far away from Florida as one can get in the contiguous USA.  We had a great vacation on Sanibel Island and were saddened by the damage done. Best of luck!

Pjd...

I have not been to Sanibel since the hurricane but there are places open for business, but not many. Most of the traffic is sightseers and construction workers. Ft Myers Beach is a different story. Lots of gawkers but recent estimates I've heard are that it won't be back to near normal for at least 5 more years. Massive damage there.

If you or other forum members are traveling to SW FL I hope you/they would contact me just so we can meet and have coffee. Not many enjoy our summer weather (March to Nov/Dec) but many folks seem to think the heat and humidity are much worse in the north and midwest. BTW, we have a LOT of visitors from Europe and Canada with direct flights to the international airport in Ft Myers.

Don

[Amwilburn]

I'm absolutely baffled by the description of your high pitched squeal. I assumed it was a mic, maybe a preamp setting, but you said you have no mic (and it's not all the time). Is there any chance you could film a quick cellphone video of the squeal (seconds before and seconds after it happens for baseline comparison; if it's video only during the squeal, we'll be hard pressed to tell from just cell phone audio).

Oh wait, you could hit audio quick record instead, and upload that as an mp3 (or even wav, which is how it's saved). Much clearer sound, but still we'll need the baseline before and after squeal (maybe in that case record 2 separate wav files, one with no squeal and one with, using the same style and voices so that we can A/B them?


Cheers

Mark

[donmac875]

I'm absolutely baffled by the description of your high pitched squeal. I assumed it was a mic, maybe a preamp setting, but you said you have no mic (and it's not all the time). Is there any chance you could film a quick cellphone video of the squeal (seconds before and seconds after it happens for baseline comparison; if it's video only during the squeal, we'll be hard pressed to tell from just cell phone audio).

Oh wait, you could hit audio quick record instead, and upload that as an mp3 (or even wav, which is how it's saved). Much clearer sound, but still we'll need the baseline before and after squeal (maybe in that case record 2 separate wav files, one with no squeal and one with, using the same style and voices so that we can A/B them?


Cheers

Mark

Mark...

I'm laughing at myself now... I hadn't considered all the things I have to learn in order to learn how to respond to legitimate queries.

It is time to get back to the manual(s) to find out how to do recordings, then more research as to how to upload those recordings so people can hear and examine them. So many things to learn and I haven't yet had my afternoon nap! . Please let me get my head around those thoughts and learn how to get the recording done, then the uploading. I'll try to fit that in between my chord practice and my attempt at analyzing the first 4 measures of the 17th movement of Beethoven's 437th Symphony in C flat. .

Seriously, I will try to get the recording done and uploaded but don't hold your breath until it appears here! Action slows down with age.

Thank you for your interest and idea. Best to you.

Don

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for the clarification, Don. I know you feel like you just dove into the deep end of the pool, but we'll take it slow and get you through this - one step at a time. Thanks for the info about your hearing. That's a big help!

I agree with Mark about the squeal. To my knowledge, no one has run across this in the forum. In lieu of figuring out the steps needed for one of us to hook up via a Zoom session, perhaps you could post every step you take that results in the squeal. Make notes of everything, even if you don't think it matters. We feel bad that this is happening but we do enjoy a good challenge 🙃. Talk soon...

- Lee

[donmac875]

Thanks for the clarification, Don. I know you feel like you just dove into the deep end of the pool, but we'll take it slow and get you through this - one step at a time. Thanks for the info about your hearing. That's a big help!

I agree with Mark about the squeal. To my knowledge, no one has run across this in the forum. In lieu of figuring out the steps needed for one of us to hook up via a Zoom session, perhaps you could post every step you take that results in the squeal. Make notes of everything, even if you don't think it matters. We feel bad that this is happening but we do enjoy a good challenge 🙃. Talk soon...

- Lee

Lee and Mark:

Well, perhaps all I needed was a good nap!!!

I think I may have solved the source of the squeal. Or is it a squeel? Both of you got me into taking each channel and note at a time. The only combination I could locate causing the high pitched noise was 2 voices, both happened to be problematic. One voice is from the Yamaha Legacy collection in the "Strings" category. There are 2 labeled identically "Strings". The one I had activated as R3 was the second of the two in the category. The other was an organ voice I imported from somewhere.

My Process:

Voices: Left, R1 and R2 had 3 different organ voices, R3 had strings.
Turned off Left, R1, R2 and R3 independently to isolate sound.
Played combination of notes occurring both before and after squeal on each isolated channel. Squeal started at "E" (E5?) above middle "C", then persisted until below C5 for strings voice.
But squeal emanated from 2 voices, one organ voice, and the strings.

First checked the "Strings" voice.
Loaded 2 different strings voices from the same category, played same notes, no squeal.
Re-loaded original strings voice, played same notes, squeal returned. Conclusion: Bad voice.
Proceeded to activate all voices. Played same set of notes, squeal returned.
Isolated voices again, checked independently, squeal occurred on R1 on different series of notes.
Turned off R1; Left, R2, R3(with new strings voice) activated. No squeal.
Loaded 2 different Yamaha organ voices, played entire musical selection, no squeals. Conclusion: Imported voice bad.

Played 2 or 3 different pieces of music. No squeals.
Overall conclusion: Two bad voices, one imported, one original Yamaha. I thought I had isolated it before to either an organ or string voice because I only seemed to notice it when either of those voices was activated. It happened that the combination of those specific voices in combination on the same piece of music caused me to think there was a bigger problem.

I am hoping this is a permanent solution. If not, I will proceed with the recording, etc. Thanks to both of you for your concern and prodding to get me started. Hope you can make sense of my process.

Best to you.

Don

[Amwilburn]

Hahah yes, that's overlapping from 2 identical samples; you'll hear a high pitched phase (basically how phasers and flanger pedals work). Never use 2 of the same sample on 2 different voices in the same octave at once, or you'll get that annoying phasing.

HOWEVER you *can* use the same voice (or 2 voices containing the same sample) twice if you shift one up or down and octave, or if you pan one hard left and one hard right. You'd only ever do that on a PSRs950/CVP605 due to the mono sound sourced nature

Try copying rhythm track 2 of a style onto rhythm track 1; if you put the same drum kit in both now you'll get horrible phasing on your style. Not recommended, no

[rattley]

Greetings DonMac

Maybe I can help?  I live in Punta Gorda which isn't that far from Ft Myers Beach. I'd be happy to spend some time with you. Maybe we could get together one afternoon?  I had a Genos since 2017 and have a Genos2 now. Sometimes just having someone familiar with an instrument showing what they know might be the boost you need? I'm not a pro and only play at home anymore. Even if I can't show you anything useful it would be nice to meet another forum member. -charley

[Lee Batchelor]

Good for you, Charly! You just saved Don a ton of time and hoop jumping.

[Divemaster]

Yes, Good on you Charley for offering Don one to one help. Kudos to you! 

[donmac875]

Greetings DonMac

Maybe I can help?  I live in Punta Gorda which isn't that far from Ft Myers Beach. I'd be happy to spend some time with you. Maybe we could get together one afternoon?  I had a Genos since 2017 and have a Genos2 now. Sometimes just having someone familiar with an instrument showing what they know might be the boost you need? I'm not a pro and only play at home anymore. Even if I can't show you anything useful it would be nice to meet another forum member. -charley

Hi Charley: and each of you who have so graciously responded

How kind and considerate of you to offer your hand of help to me. I am humbled. Thanks for your offer which I shall surely accept, and for those also who have been so kind and considerate of a bit of what is so puzzling to a beginner.

I'll PM you Charley and see what we can arrange for a meet-up to get acquainted. I haven't been to Punta Gorda for a while but wife and I used to make that a regular trip for the food at the Captain's Table on the pier. It will be good to get up that way again. Also need to visit the new military museum I've heard so much about. Looking forward to meeting you.

Mark and Lee:

Fooling around on the Genos this morning I came upon another registration where the squeaky "whistle" sounded. Quickly examining the voices, the "phasing" Mark mentioned is obviously the critter. I'll have to go through several of these registrations and weed out the ones, replacing a problematic voice here and there. I'm fairly confident now that, as this am when the whistle appeared and I changed the voice it went away, that the culprit has been exposed. All this from my ignorance concerning the mixing of sounds. Many thanks again.

Don

[Lee Batchelor]

Glad to help, Don.

When importing registrations from a previous keyboard to the next generation keyboard - Genos in your case - it is almost essential to go through each registration and check everything out. Yamaha is pretty good at being backward compatible but little issues can easily creep in. Have fun with Charly and please keep us posted on your progress. We're here if you fellers run into any issues.

[Denn]

Hello from Australia. I have had the Genos and SX900 but now I have the SX700. Your strings and thump noise is in almost of all the Yamaha styles.
Go to Menu 2, Style Settings, Stop ACMP, turns off the string noise.
I set up my keyboard and turned OFF ALL the style sets. Went into the Mixer and turned all the style volumes to zero and still had the string sound in the left. It was fairly quiet but it was there and annoying. Turned OFF the ACMP and NO extra string noise. This does not affect the styles when you play.
Hope that this helps.
Regards, Den.

[donmac875]

Hello from Australia. I have had the Genos and SX900 but now I have the SX700. Your strings and thump noise is in almost of all the Yamaha styles.
Go to Menu 2, Style Settings, Stop ACMP, turns off the string noise.
I set up my keyboard and turned OFF ALL the style sets. Went into the Mixer and turned all the style volumes to zero and still had the string sound in the left. It was fairly quiet but it was there and annoying. Turned OFF the ACMP and NO extra string noise. This does not affect the styles when you play.
Hope that this helps.
Regards, Den.

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm happy that you've found a solution to your annoying string sound.l You have been much more willing than I to dig into the nuances of these menus. But you did get me searching out the reference manual to find out what options exist regarding the style set. I had not considered the fact that the annoying whistle I was hearing might come from a style.

I tried your suggestion, turned the Style Setting OFF, then put the voices in R1-R3 back to the configuration where the whistle is annoying and the whistle was still there. So it isn't the Style. Changing the voicing took away the whistle which has me convinced it is a phasing signal (which I don't completely understand).

Since I am just a babe in the woods dealing with the Genos I'll just have to be very careful about using Voices where the signals conflict with each other. I am not a musician so my choice of assembling voices that blend well is at present a hit-or-miss proposition.

Thanks again.

Don