pitch bend

[werikas3210]

  I am asking for your help. I have a yamaha Tyros4, the Pitch bend broke half a year ago. When I play the accompaniment on the left side of the keyboard, the right side of the keyboard a semitone above does not match the accompaniment. I can only play normally when I set Pitch bend to 0 in the settings. Maybe someone has encountered this fault, before Pitch bend worked fine. I am looking forward to hearing from you, thank you if you can help.

[overover]

Welcome to the PSR Tutorial Forum, werikas3210!

The Tyros4's Pitch Bend Wheel assembly contains a spring that automatically returns the PB Wheel to center position when released. I suspect that this spring is damaged and/or no longer in the correct position.

I recommend having the Wheel assembly inspected by an experienced keyboard technician, preferably an authorized Yamaha service center.

See also the attached screenshot (from the Tyros4 Service Manual). You will also find the relevant spare part numbers there.


Best regards,
Chris

[attachment deleted by admin]

[DrakeM]

I had to have my pitch wheel replaced about 4 or 5 years ago. I took it to an Authorized Dealer and he had no problem getting the parts to replace the wheel. As I recall it was $160.

The issue was not the spring but the Wheel. The hole in the center of the wheel had enlarged and was no longer round. The Dealer asked me, "What I did to get it like that?" I smiled and told him I play Country music and I am bending a lot of guitar and pedal steel guitar notes with the wheel. 

[werikas3210]

  Thank you very much for your answers. I don't have a pitch bend wheel, and the spring is returning to the centre position. I have opened the hull of the tyros4. The nearest yamaha dealer is in Riga. I am from Lithuania, so for me the distance to Riga is over 500km. I am waiting for more answers from forum members. I am asking for help, because Tyros4 is my dream instrument.

[BogdanH]

hello werikas,
My guess would be that the potentiometer has worn out ( 10kOhm rotary variable resistor -item 60 on picture that Chris provided). I think it should be no problem to find it in local store and replace it. Take the old one with you to make sure that physical size matches.

Bogdan

[mikf]

  Thank you very much for your answers. I don't have a pitch bend wheel, and the spring is returning to the centre position.

We might have a translation issue here because the above statement does not make sense. You cant have no wheel and still be returning to center.
Maybe you mean that you don't have a WORN pitch bend wheel and the spring is returning to center. But maybe you can clarify.
However, having said that, I am not sure how much help you can realistically get on the forum, beyond what is already suggested. Potentiometers, if you can find an equivalent, are low cost and maybe worth a shot. But if replacing the potentiometer doesn't work, this probably needs expert investigation.
Mike

[werikas3210]

 Thank you for your answers. I apologise for the translator's mistakes. The pitch bend wheel is not broken. I downloaded the pacyometer from Germany according to the Tyros4 service manual. I changed the potionciometer, unfortunately nothing has changed. For over 5 years my Tyros4 has been running perfectly, very well protected. Unfortunately last year the pitch bend broke. I hope to get more answers in this forum, thank you if you can help.
Rolandas

[werikas3210]

   Can this problem be solved by updating the Operating System? Maybe someone else has had to deal with this.

[Amwilburn]

Thank you for your answers. I apologise for the translator's mistakes. The pitch bend wheel is not broken. I downloaded the pacyometer from Germany according to the Tyros4 service manual. I changed the potionciometer, unfortunately nothing has changed. For over 5 years my Tyros4 has been running perfectly, very well protected. Unfortunately last year the pitch bend broke. I hope to get more answers in this forum, thank you if you can help.
Rolandas

You said the "pitch bend wheel is not broken" and "last year the pitch bend broke" in the same paragraph...? So it's not very clear. You also said " I don't have a pitch bend wheel" but you have a Tyros 4, which most certainly does have a pitch bend wheel.

If the wheel is returning to centre, physically? It's probably not the spring. If it's always 'bending' the pitch, then it could be the potentiometer. If you don't want to get it repaired, you could set pitch bend range to 0, if you're not going to use your pitch bend at all.

Mark

[BogdanH]

hello Mark,
If I understood correctly, (the problem is) if the wheel is in center position, the pitch is still slightly off. Maybe the wheel doesn't return in exact center position.. maybe the hole in the wheel (where potentiometer shaft comes in) is a little worn out... It's hard to really know because of translation.

Bogdan

[mikf]

Maybe since he has already opened it up, he could remove the wheel, manually turn the potentiometer shaft and see if he can find a 'zero' position. If that works it might indicate the wheel (or the shaft) has moved and a fix can be worked out. If that doesn't work it indicates the position of the shaft is not the problem and he has to look elsewhere in the system for the cause.
Mike

[werikas3210]

  Thank you all very much for your answers. The Pitch bend wheel on my tyros4 is not broken, the spring is good, the wheel is going back to the centre. I really need a pitch bend which I always use. Where the problem might be I do not even know. The potionciometer has been replaced brand new. Unfortunately the accompaniment does not match the right hand only half tone. I am very upset because the pitch bend does not work which is very necessary. Thank you for any help.

Best regards
Rolandas

[mikf]

See my suggestion above. The shaft may have slipped into the wrong position. Check it as suggested. We understand you want it to work. But this is not a common problem and we can only guess, you have to try things.
Mike

[overover]

@werikas23210
Hi Rolandas,

If I understood you correctly above, you have the Tyros4 Service Manual. If not you can download it here:
>>> https://psrtutorial.com/lessons/workshops/ServiceManuals.html

Please start up the internal Tyros4 Test Program using the instructions on page 65 of the Service Manual ("Test Program" section) and read the instructions "2-1: How to carry out tests" (page 66)

Then please carry out the Test "031 Pitch Bend Wheel Check" (page 82/83 in the Service Manual). As described there, this test consists of three parts (Pitch Bend Down > Pitch Bend Up > Pitch Bend Center).

After completing the test (after finally releasing the wheel back to Center position) "031 Pitch Bend Check > OK" and the value "64" should be displayed. If this shows "NG" and a value other than 64, there is an error.

Finally execute the Test item "062 Test Exit" (to exit the Test Program and restart automatically). Please carefully read the instructions for this test first (page 98).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[werikas3210]

  The shaft can't slip through because it's impossible, new potionciometer, pitch bend wheel fits firmly, hole in the shape of a half-moon, it's impossible to slip through there. I have carried out the test, the need shows ''NG'', I have done the factory reset 2 times, unfortunately nothing has changed and nothing has helped. That's why I'm on this forum, because I don't know what to do with this strange fault. Thank you for your advice.

[overover]

  The shaft can't slip through because it's impossible, new potionciometer, pitch bend wheel fits firmly, hole in the shape of a half-moon, it's impossible to slip through there. I have carried out the test, the need shows ''NG'', I have done the factory reset 2 times, unfortunately nothing has changed and nothing has helped. That's why I'm on this forum, because I don't know what to do with this strange fault. Thank you for your advice.

Hi Rolandas,

What values do the first two pitch bend tests show? Is the correct lower value (0) and correct upper value (127) displayed? If not, there is probably something wrong with the adjustment of the potentiometer.


Best regards,
Chris

[werikas3210]

   The Pitch bend test shows 0 as the lower value and 127 as the upper value. Only the centre shows around 32. Thank you for your advice

[overover]

   The Pitch bend test shows 0 as the lower value and 127 as the upper value. Only the centre shows around 32. Thank you for your advice

Hi Rolandas,

You wrote that you replaced the potentiometer with a new one:

Please check whether it is really a 10 kOhm potentiometer with a linear characteristic. From your description, I suspect that it is a logarithmic potentiometer so that in the middle of the mechanical path it does not have half the resistance value (5 kOhm), but much less.


Best regards,
Chris

[werikas3210]

 Thank you for the explanation. I have a new potionciometer pitch bend 10Kohm, I will send it according to the Tyros4 manual and the part code, https://www.audio-service.com/asshop/shop.nsf/sts?open . The original part as I understand it, because the code is what it is.
I have measured with a tester the central position of the potionciometer (5,25Kohm), the tester is the cheapest, so I may be wrong.
I don't really understand what (linear) and (logarithmic) mean, I'm not an electrician but more of a musician.

[mikf]

Have you tried connecting a pedal to control pitch bend? If that doesn't work either then the problem is probably not in the wheel or potentiometer. If it works properly then it seems fairly certain the fault is in the wheel/potentiometer.
Mike

[werikas3210]

   Thank you. I have connected the pedal, everything works the same as with the pitch bend wheel, the pedal is responsive. Unfortunately the problem persists - the accompaniment does not match the right hand half tone.

[overover]

Thank you for the explanation. I have a new potionciometer pitch bend 10Kohm, I will send it according to the Tyros4 manual and the part code, https://www.audio-service.com/asshop/shop.nsf/sts?open . The original part as I understand it, because the code is what it is.
I have measured with a tester the central position of the potionciometer (5,25Kohm), the tester is the cheapest, so I may be wrong.
I don't really understand what (linear) and (logarithmic) mean, I'm not an electrician but more of a musician.

Hi Rolandas,

Apparently there are still minor translation problems here...

With a linear potentiometer (lin), the resistance changes evenly over the entire control path. Therefore, as I said, in the center position it has half of the total resistance.

With a logarithmic potentiometer (log), the resistance initially increases more slowly at the beginning of the control range. In the center position the resistance is still much less than half of the total resistance. Towards the end of the control range, the resistance increases relatively quickly.

For the sake of completeness: There are also "negative-logarithmic" potentiometers. These work exactly the opposite way to normal ones ("postitive-logarithmic"). But "neg-log" potentiometers are relatively rare.


Did you order the potentiometer currently used in your Tyros4 from the German company "audio-service.com" (Audio-Service Schierbecker, Hamburg)? Then it should actually be the right one (10 kOhm linear, labelled either "10.0k" or "B 10.0k" or "10.0k B").

What is the exact label/code on the potentiometer? Does it have a manufacturer's name/logo?

You may want to consult an electronics technician to make sure it really is a 10k linear potentiometer.

If the problem persists, I'm afraid I won't be able to help you anymore. Try to find an experienced technician who is familiar with Yamaha keyboards and/or contact Yamaha support in your country.


Best regards,
Chris

[werikas3210]

   The potionciometer reads 332G 10K..., followed by a heroglyph after the letter K. On the bottom of the potionciometer it says JAPAN and some other small company logo.
Unfortunately there is no yamaha technician in my country, I enquired, they said there was, but he died last summer. And then my pitch bend broke. An incomprehensible failure and a great shame.
I would be grateful for any explanations.

[overover]

   The potionciometer reads 332G 10K..., followed by a heroglyph after the letter K. On the bottom of the potionciometer it says JAPAN and some other small company logo.
Unfortunately there is no yamaha technician in my country, I enquired, they said there was, but he died last summer. And then my pitch bend broke. An incomprehensible failure and a great shame.
I would be grateful for any explanations.

This should actually be the correct potentiometer...

Have you already seen this thread:
>>> https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,59718.msg461064.html#msg461064


Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

Chris, If this is happening when using a pedal, does this not rule out the potentiometer/ wheel as the problem? Does the pedal not act as the potentiometer?
Werikas, Have you tried a full system reset yet?
Beyond that it seems we are out of ideas and this needs a technician. But the keyboard is already more than 10 years old, maybe as much as 14 years old. I would question whether it's worth the trouble you would go to in finding and shipping to a Yamaha tech. Especially considering there is no local support and something else could go wrong next week, next month, next year!!
Maybe time to upgrade, a good used SX900 maybe. It is probably better than the old Tyros anyway and you should be able to find one for about $1500.
Or set the pitch bend to zero and continue to use it without pitch bend.
Three options, you need to decide😏
Mike

[werikas3210]

  Using the pedal is the same as using the pitch bend wheel. I have adjusted the whole system several times and nothing changes.
The keyboard is about 14 years old.
I'm not going to upgrade, because for me the Tyros4 is the most wonderful instrument. I didn't want the SX900, and I had to play the Tyros5 live, I didn't like the plastic sound. The Tyros4 is a superb dream instrument.
I can't accept that the pitch bend has to be set to 0. Maybe I can somehow fix the fault.
I am very grateful for your advice.

Rolandas

[mikf]

Maybe it's just translation, but what I would call system adjustments are not the same thing as a full system reset. You have to take some steps to save stuff you have stored before doing a full reset, but if you haven't done a full reset, that may be worth trying.
Mike

[werikas3210]

   Today I reset my Tyros4 to factory settings, before that I saved and copied the settings. Unfortunately nothing has changed.
I don't know what a full reset means. Is it an operating system update. I won't do that, I won't risk it, and besides, it's nothing to do with pitch bend.
Thank you.

[Amwilburn]

Using the pedal is the same as using the pitch bend wheel. I have adjusted the whole system several times and nothing changes.
I'm not going to upgrade, because for me the Tyros4 is the most wonderful instrument. I didn't want the SX900, and I had to play the Tyros5 live, I didn't like the plastic sound. The Tyros4 is a superb dream instrument.
I can't accept that the pitch bend has to be set to 0. Maybe I can somehow fix the fault.
I am very grateful for your advice.

Rolandas

I'm not asking you to accept it, I'm asking you if it bypasses the mismatched transpose. If it does, then I'll ask if the wheel is actually centred; and if so, it's likely the potentiometer. If it *doesn't* realign your left and right hand pitch, then the problem lies elsewhere, possibly your transpose (which I also ask you to look at, but not until we ascertain if the pitch wheel is malfunctioning)

So again, what happens if you set all pitch bend ranges to 0?

What do you mean by using the pedal? Using the pedal to pitch bend? well of course it's the 'same' if the wheel is already telling it to bend pitch; the pedal doesn't add more pitch bend range; if one controller tells it that the pitch is already maxxed out, a 2nd controller telling it to pitch bend can't make it go higher.

[werikas3210]

 When I set pitch bend to 0, everything works fine. When I use the pitch bend wheel and the pedal, both react the same and both work at the same time, the pedal and the pitch bend wheel.
There is no way in the settings to set only the pedal or only the pitch bend wheel