Yamaha has got to be Joking, right

[DrakeM]

I am working on the Entertainer G2 styles. These styles seems to be European based styles (German, Dutch, I don't know just guessing).
I have no idea what the song is supposed to sound like based on the suggested song in the Yamaha playlist for the Genos 2.

So I head on over to Youtube in order to hear the song. Many of the songs have just a few hundred thousand views. Today I look up this song:
Ich bin dem Himmel nah by Die Amigos and in the last 5 years it only has 4,400 views. Another lady(Sylvia Stern) has the song up with 16,000 views in 11 years.
The Playlist suggests 2 songs for the style and the Die Amigos have recorded both songs.

If Yamaha wants to sell their keyboards in the US, they have got to put more Country styles in them. There are a lot more popular country song styles to load onto their keyboards. 

What Yamaha is offering is a sick joke. Not everyone can or even wants to learn how to put together a custom style using the styles we are given.

I rest my case.   
Drake

[EileenL]

You have to remember these keyboards have to cater for all Countries. Here in the UK we do not play that much Country. Maybe a wee bit for Line dancing. Other counties have there own favourites. I find there are more than enough country styles on Genos2 to keep me happy.

[BogdanH]

hi Drake,

This kind of music (by Die Amigos) is quite popular in German speaking regions, where it's called a party "schlager" -which can be roughly translated as party "smasher" and obviously, it only works with sufficient amount of beer 

I think that Yamaha's music genres are quite well covered: Jazz, Pop, Latin, Country (ballads), etc. -a little of everything. Of course, depending on region, we always wish that there would be more styles for our kind of music.

Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

Believe it or not, their German market is one of the largest (if not *the* largest) market for their arrangers. So, while they try to put something in there for everyone, they have to make sure they have plenty of schlager! Country music is mostly popular in Canada and the USA. But they did make up for it with the Country expansion pack! (Similarly applies to other manufacturers as well, btw).

But that's why I was so excited by the Genos 2: Catered to people like myself! (Movie themes and 80's throwbacks!)

Mark

[J. Larry]

I lean in Drake's direction on this issue about "country".  I rarely have a problem finding a style that works for most songs.  However, some styles are missing for classic country.  Take, for example, Don Williams' Some Broken Hearts Never Mend.  A style called "2-4" gets close, but it needs to sound more authentic, the way Nashville session players play.  And, how about the "Ray Price shuffle", as some call it.  You couldn't count the number of recorded songs using that style, with the walking bass line.  As much as I love Yamaha arrangers, I move to Band In A Box, when I need a style that better serves the song.

[Amwilburn]

Oh, I'm not saying we *shouldn't* have more (we always want *more* styles, not fewer!) I'm just saying that they obviously have to cater to their main audience, then cater to everyone else; the Country Music expansion pack (which works on *any* Yamaha arranger compatible with YEM; so pretty much anything after the s950/s750/s650 series (i.e works on the s970, launched in 2015, 9 years ago) and should work on the Tyros 5 (launched 2013!)

But since Drake has an s950, maybe someone could translate the 10 styles there for use on an s950/s770 (s770 is not the same chip, it's actually superior to the s950 sound library, but the compatibility is very similar. btw so is the DGX670/PRSsx600, but both of those sound libraries are below the s770's)

Although I suspect there should be a fair number of old country styles available in the older keyboards sound libraries.


Fun fact: according to North American radio station stats, Country music has the *widest* age range of any audience. (pretty much 1 to 100) compared to classic Rock, Heavy Metal (actually one of the smallest demographics), R&B + Hip Hop, etc.

Mark

[Divemaster]

Oh, I'm not saying we *shouldn't* have more (we always want *more* styles, not fewer!) I'm just saying that they obviously have to cater to their main audience, then cater to everyone else; the Country Music expansion pack (which works on *any* Yamaha arranger compatible with YEM; so pretty much anything after the s950/s750/s650 series (i.e works on the s970, launched in 2015, 9 years ago) and should work on the Tyros 5 (launched 2013!)

But since Drake has an s950, maybe someone could translate the 10 styles there for use on an s950/s770 (s770 is not the same chip, it's actually superior to the s950 sound library, but the compatibility is very similar. btw so is the DGX670/PRSsx600, but both of those sound libraries are below the s770's)

Although I suspect there should be a fair number of old country styles available in the older keyboards sound libraries.


Fun fact: according to North American radio station stats, Country music has the *widest* age range of any audience. (pretty much 1 to 100) compared to Classic Rock, Heavy Metal (actually one of the smallest demographics), R&B + Hip Hop, etc.

Mark

Hi Mark
Just out of interest can I ask you if you are referring to the Premium Country Pack available in Expansion Pack downloads.
I would have liked this one, but it seems to only be available for Tyros 5 and Genos.
You say this will work on *any* Yamaha arranger compatible with YEM but there seems to be only those  limited keyboard options.
Unless you know different... Can you clarify if there's another way of getting it onto my SX700.

I actually fired up my keyboard at a Scottish wedding last weekend, and it went down really well using Country and Scottish Styles.
Country music is fantastic, it gets people on the dance floor having fun. Especially after a few wee drams, so I really get Drake's points.

Thanks
Keith.

[KurtAgain]

Believe it or not, their German market is one of the largest (if not *the* largest) market for their arrangers.

Recently there was a long thread here "Genos2 vs Korg Pa5X".

But in Germany, in addition to the Pa5X standard model, Korg also has an additional and even more expensive model on the market, the "Pa5X Musikant". The Musikant is specially designed for the German-speaking market with German lettering on the housing and many additional "German" styles, sounds, drum kits, multi pads, etc. Korg Musikant models have been around for many years, so it seems to be worth it for Korg.

Here in Germany the Genos 2 has to be able to compete against the Pa5X Musikant model. That might be the reason for the many strange German styles.

https://www.korg.com/de/products/synthesizers/pa5xmusikant/

[rodrigo.b]

hi Drake,

This kind of music (by Die Amigos) is quite popular in German speaking regions, where it's called a party "schlager" -which can be roughly translated as party "smasher" and obviously, it only works with sufficient amount of beer 

I think that Yamaha's music genres are quite well covered: Jazz, Pop, Latin, Country (ballads), etc. -a little of everything. Of course, depending on region, we always wish that there would be more styles for our kind of music.

Bogdan

You are somewhat right, except when you mention Latin styles. Regarding the Latin genre, there are many styles missing and the ones that are there are usually not so authentic because they use sounds thought for Jazz, Blues, Pop, rock or whatever but not sounds for Latin music.

For example in the Mariachi styles, they usually use an acoustic bass but in Mexico they use a "Guitarrón". In Salsa they also use the same acoustic bass but in a real salsa orchestra is more common to use a "Baby Bass"

[Amwilburn]

Hi Msrk
Just out of interest can I ask you if you are referring to the Premium Country Pack available in Expansion Pack downloads.
I would have liked this one, but it seems to only be available for Tyros 5 and Genos.
You say this will work on *any* Yamaha arranger compatible with YEM but there seems to be only those  limited keyboard options.
Unless you know different... Can you clarify if there's another way of getting it onto my SX700.

Thanks
Keith.

Yeah, I am: the Genos 2 version (check out the Genos 2 board) is ppf, meaning it will load on your sx700!

Like I said, pretty much any Pro level Yamaha arranger after 2015. So things like that go a *long* way towards addressing most categories of music that may be a bit lacking in the amount of content. And before someone cries fowl that it's not compatible with earlier arrangers, the earlier s750/s950 models launched in 2012... almost a dozen years ago!

Mark

[Divemaster]

Thanks for this Mark.
Most helpful. I'll try that later today.

Keith

[BogdanH]

hi Rodrigo,
I'm quite a fan of authentic latin music and when I mentioned it in my previous post, I was speaking in general -because every Yamaha has some amount of latin styles.
However the quality of the styles is a different story and here I agree with you. Built-in styles are only good enough to become familiar with rhythms of various music genres -for learning and practicing.

Bogdan

[pjd]

I get Drake's frustration. It seems like Yamaha went overboard with the Schlager. I spent a lot of time getting wasted in Bavaria, but am not a real aficionado. I sense frustration from other folks regarding their preferred genres. (Mine would be funk, soul and smooth jazz.)

Mark hits the nail on the head with the schlager.  Yamaha are in business to make money.

Downtempo is completely absent. Thus, I'm trying to learn to create new styles for downtempo. I hope to pull a new Motif for PSR style ZIP together soon. My project this winter is learning to create basic style material in Ableton Live and convert it.

Keep having fun, none the less -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Yeah, PJ, I get that. I'm just saying at least they've offered us a pack to appease Country music fans; hopefully more.

Keep in mind Drake can't use the G2 playlist on his s950 (nor you on our G1); there are 102 song entries for Country music alone.
The country section of the G2 styles contains 52 styles; and for some reason, they've been doing more '1 style for 2 different songs' thing; like 80sRockAnthem main A&B are We Will Rock you, C & D are Kashmire.

The point is, they have enough styles to cover 102 country songs, using 52 styles which isn't 0. And then we get the 10 more from the Country Music expansion. *AND* another 10 from the Genos completel pack. 72 Country styles...?

The Genos1 only had 37 (+10 from the same Country Music pack); the Korg PA5x only has 34 Country.
I'm not following why the Genos 2 suddenly doesn't have enough Country styles, when it has more than double the Pa5x country styles, and 25 more than the G1?



Country Rock is for Achy Breaky Heart (T120, Intro 2), God Blessed Texas (T128, Intro 3)
CountryBalland2 is Always on My Mind
CountrySwingBallad is for Crazy(1961)
FastCountryBlues is Folsom City Blues (T210, INtro 3), I Walk the Line (T226, Intro 2)
Country Shuffle1 is for I'm a Country girl
70sCountryAnhtem is for Jolene
NashvillePop is Love Story (Taylor Swift, not the Andy Williams one)
CountryCirlces is Ring of Fire (hahah clever)
etc, etc


Mark

[pjd]

Actually, the one country style I want is "Are you sure Hank done it this way." Somebody described this tune as "Waylon does Velvet Underground". I love that tune!

— pj

[Divemaster]

Yeah, I am: the Genos 2 version (check out the Genos 2 board) is ppf, meaning it will load on your sx700!

Like I said, pretty much any Pro level Yamaha arranger after 2015. So things like that go a *long* way towards addressing most categories of music that may be a bit lacking in the amount of content. And before someone cries fowl that it's not compatible with earlier arrangers, the earlier s750/s950 models launched in 2012... almost a dozen years ago!

Mark Expansion

Hi Mark, and anyone else who can help here.

Having tried to download this Premium Pack Country Musician pack I have run into a problem.
This pack is listed for Genos and Tyros 5, but I understand that as it's a ppi format I can somehow use it.

When I download the pack and unzip it, it extracts as .cpf files NOT ,ppi

I know that I can only use this .ppi pack as a single use pack to a usb. I can't add it to my existing Expansion Packs, because the Instrument info, obviously is different. But how to convert it?

So how do I actually get to download it into a format that I can use on my SX700

I'm fine using Expansion Manager, but do I need to use YEM at all to achieve this?

Thanks for any guidance on this.

Keith.

[EileenL]

You have to download the Country pack that has been converted to Genos2 which in now PPF file.

[BogdanH]

@Keith
Download here.

Bogdan

[overover]

... Having tried to download this Premium Pack Country Musician pack I have run into a problem.
This pack is listed for Genos and Tyros 5, but I understand that as it's a ppi format I can somehow use it.

When I download the pack and unzip it, it extracts as .cpf files NOT ,ppi

I know that I can only use this .ppi pack as a single use pack to a usb. I can't add it to my existing Expansion Packs, because the Instrument info, obviously is different. But how to convert it?

So how do I actually get to download it into a format that I can use on my SX700

I'm fine using Expansion Manager, but do I need to use YEM at all to achieve this?

Thanks for any guidance on this.

Keith.

Hi Keith,

You can use the following link to download the unprotected Genos2 version (.ppf/.ppi) of the CountryMusician Pack:
>>> CountryMusician_Genos2.zip

The .ppf file contained in the downloaded zip file can be imported into the YEM and installed on your SX700. See also the attached screenshot.

Be sure to use the current YEM version 2.10.0. Also be sure you have ticked all other packs in YEM that you want to install on the keyboard before saving the Pack Install file.

Alternatively, you can use the .ppi file to install the pack directly (without using YEM) on the SX700. But note that in this case all previous installed Expansion content will be deleted from the keyboard.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[attachment unavailable]

[Divemaster]

Thanks Eileen, Bogdan and Chris.
That makes it much clearer to me.
I'll tackle this at the weekend, as crazy busy at the moment.

**Update.** I've now got this sorted. Thanks. 😊

Kind regards to you all
Keith.

[DrakeM]

I have already converted the 10 styles in the "Country Musician" pack years ago and they are on my Collection Page of our PSR site.

Here is a direct link to the full pack:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/styles/coll/drake/psr-S950%20Country%20Musician%20styles.zip

These styles work all Yamaha keyboards since 2013 and the PSR-S950

[Amwilburn]

Oh, Awesome Drake!

[DrakeM]

I just finished converting 47 of the new Entertainer styles and all but about 7 of them were for German song titles. Compared to only 14 new country styles.

Yamaha is really needs to put in more effort if they want to sell it in the USA. There is 4 times more people here that could use their keyboards. 

[KurtAgain]

A big thank you from Germany!

[Amwilburn]

14 new? But the G2 has 52+10+10 country styles, the Genos 1 only had 37 + 10, so there should be 25 new? Or were some from PSRsx900, CVP809? (I haven't crossed referenced them, I'm just looking at each keyboard's folders). At 72 Country styles for the G2 vs 34 for the Pa5x, I'd say Yamaha's already trying harder than anyone else? (Anyone know how many Country styles Ketron Event has? Googling shows it has the Country category, but they won't say a number)

Even the top of the line CVP809/909 only have 48 Country styles (and an additional 20 Blues styles)

Mark

[mikf]

Yamaha practically owns this market - why are people always telling them they are getting it wrong. It's like telling General Motors they don't understand the car market.
Mike

[DrakeM]

Hi Mark

I already have all the previous G1, CVP, SX, and all the past keyboards country styles. I am not switching to Korg, ever. I have spent too much time making several hundred of my own country styles. 

I am simply pointing out Yamaha would sell more keyboards in the USA if they would put more country styles on them (a lot more). There are 340 Million people here in the states and if that market is not purchasing more keyboards then Germany, then yep, Yamaha is doing something wrong.

Come on, how hard is it for Yamaha to make a style anyway? If I can make one in 8 hours. They could hire a couple people to make almost 500 (50 weeks x 5 days x 2 ppl) new styles every year. They were putting out a new keyboard every couple of years. They should have been offering each of there new keyboards with all the old styles and 400 to 500 completely new styles.

Styles are what the sit and play customer is wanting more than I am. I just use the styles for ideas. I hear a pattern in a style that fits a song I want to play and build my new style up around that pattern using parts (mostly) from other styles.

As an example while converting one of these new styles I heard a pattern to use for the song "Jessie's Girl". So, when I get finished with these conversions, I'll get to working on that one. 

Drake

edit update: I left out the "I" in that statement.

[BogdanH]

hi Drake,
I think that your view angle is very narrow. Not everyone in Germany likes schlager, not everyone in Italy listens Traviata and not everyone in Spain is dancing flamenco.. and finally, not everyone in US listen country. Country music is only one of many music genres and even those who like it, they don't listen county music all the time -I hope .
Being at US specific music... what really surprises me is the fact, that there are practically no blues styles in Yamaha.

As I said before, I think music genres in Yamaha are in general well distributed. But of course, when we look after a style for some specific song, then we probably won't find it -because there's infinite number of songs. Luckily, we can make our own styles 

Bogdan
PS: Making style from scratch in 8 hours? I can't do it -unless it's simple generic style.

[mikf]

Mark, you sell Genos for a living....if there was another 10 or even 20 Country styles on the Genos, would it make ANY difference to sales? I doubt it, because I don't see that kind of thing as a big sales differentiator.
My guess is the typical buyer wants to know how good it sounds, how easy it is to operate and what it costs compared to alternatives. Maybe some particularly well informed buyers get into detailed features. But how many styles of a particular genre ..don't see it. And if they did, more than 70 would seem good!
Mike

[andyg]

... Yamaha would sell more keyboards in the USA if they would put more country styles on them (a lot more). There are 340 Million people here in the states and if that market is not purchasing more keyboards then Germany, then yep, Yamaha is doing something wrong.

....Come on, how hard is it for Yamaha to make a style anyway?

You could equally well say that if more people in the USA bought arranger keyboards (and from speaking to some American friends and students it looks like the dealers they know just aren't really interested in that market sector) then Yamaha would no doubt offer more of what that market wanted, either through new built in styles or new Expansion Packs.

Europe, especially the UK and countries like Germany, has always been a very strong market. When the home organ market started dying in the 1980s, it seems that the USA didn't pick up the 'replacement' keyboard market in the same way that the UK and Europe did.

How hard to programme a style to the standard of the built in ones? Well, I've just been in touch with one of their style  and voice programmers. His answer? Not hard (at least for him, and he's been working in that field for 30+ years) but very time consuming, even with the bespoke software that Yamaha has.

And please note that I'm not criticising the standard of your own styles for a second, I've not heard or tried them!