midi keyboard to connect to my genos to learn piano

[wersiplayer]

Hi folks,

As the title says i am looking for a midi keyboard to learn piano. As i have a genos with verry good piano samples i want to purchase a midi keyboard with weighted keys and preference 88 keys.
I dont want to break the bank so . . . Das someone have somme good sugestions?

[musicman100]

Kawai es110 - for £300 second hand or 120 for about 450.

I have played both i have a es110. I play alot of piano and they are very good.

I have also a kawai es920 and the es520 is also very good.

Ask me any questions and I will try to help.

[wersiplayer]

Thanks, I live in Belgium. I wonder if i can get them here aswel. I wil see if i can buy them new because second hand is not a good option here lol

[wersiplayer]

what do you find of the studiologic sl 88? Its only a midikeyboard but some on youtube use them as a second keyboard

[musicman100]

Thanks, I live in Belgium. I wonder if i can get them here aswel. I wil see if i can buy them new because second hand is not a good option here lol

Thomman have them

https://www.thomann.de/intl/kawai_es_120_b.htm?shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiYmUiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MiwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOjR9&reload=1

I am sure you should be able to get them in Belguim.

[Michael Trigoboff]

Thomman have them

https://www.thomann.de/intl/kawai_es_120_b.htm?shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiYmUiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6MiwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOjR9&reload=1

How would you connect MIDI from this to a Genos? The list of connection's doesn't include MIDI output, other than via Bluetooth.

[Christophermoment]

How would you connect MIDI from this to a Genos? The list of connection's doesn't include MIDI output, other than via Bluetooth.

Might be able to use one of the 2 Yamaha Bluetooth Adapters.

[terryB]

Genos2 keyboards have two sets of 5 pin DIN connections for adding MiDi devices, the same as earlier models 
Cheers Terry

[konaboy32]

don't buy a controller keyboard without conventional round MIDI output. otherwise at best a world of pain, at worst it simply won't work

studiologic make solid controller keyboards with good quality fatar keybed action.

but if I were you, forget about midi-ing a controller to the Genos.

get a standalone digital piano and just use that as-is. The piano sounds on most modern quality DPs are even better than G2, they have built-in speakers and it's just one device to power on and play. a good DP is not much more expensive than a good controller.

[Divemaster]

I agree with konaboy

I too have wondered why you'd even want to go this MIDI route.

I see that you're in Belgium. I can see that there are hundreds of great digital pianos for sale there, both new and 2nd hand. Check out your internet.

Many buyers, especially at this time of year buy pianos, and other instruments, but a very high proportion of those people will not have the time, ability or most importantly, dedication to play them and subsequently sell them. Pick up a good used digital piano.

Just buy a piano. Simple.

Keith

[wersiplayer]

Hi folks,

I see that many of you gave feedback on my request. My idea of a midi controller als a second keyboard commes from a youtube guy who makes samples (or pretend to make them) for wersi and yamaha keyboards. He use it as a second keyboard and says it can have up to 4 splits. Steve Solitaire is his youtube name. https://www.youtube.com/@stevesolitaire5013. this is the link to his page. In one of his video's he mention the use of his second keyboard. From there my idea to buy one and my request for info. I saw the potential to use the weighted keybed to learn piano playing the right way and to have a second keyboard to play on as i am in first place a organ player.

[konaboy32]

we all agree that having a nice weighted action is ideal for learning to play piano properly.

but a few of us are just recommending a proper digital piano instead of all the hassle of connecting a controller to the genos.

as earlier mentioned, kawai have great entry level pianos with best actions and sounds in the business, check out Roland FP10, Yamaha P125 or similar, Casio have some great candidates.

buying used is always a smart move if you can find something fairly modern.

and remember, most DPs have MIDI out, so you can also use it as a MIDI controller, if for some reason you really want to do that!

[mikf]

The really cheap midi controller keyboards typically do not have much better keyboard feel than the arranger ie they do not provide the most important thing you need to get close to real piano. When you move to much more expensive controller keyboards with 88 keys and much nicer action, they also have a million other features that you don't need for piano playing, like after touch, multiple splits, are more complicated to operate..... and they typically don't cost less than a half decent digital piano anyway.
And if you buy a half decent piano, you can still use it as a controller. And as a bonus now you will have extra voices. I went through these decisions myself years ago and ended up with a digital piano.
I ended up over time migrating from a multi keyboard system to the CVP, but the two keyboard system is cheaper, and pretty good. But an additional choice worth thinking about nowadays to get a full solution in a single keyboard is to trade your arranger for a DGX.
Mike

[wersiplayer]

I am looking around and the midi weighted keyboard i got in mind cost almost 400 euros. Second hand pianos easy cost double of it and new ones some 800 t0 1000 or more euros. I just emptyed my bank account to buy the genos 2 (+ 5500 euros) so . . . . i dont know . . . . you guy state that it is not easy to simple connect the midi boars with the genos with a midi cable. I see the benefit of a separate dig piano but it wil cost me a lot more than 400 euro"s and no real bargans 2de hand for the moment. Then there is also the space isue. an organ, genos, piano . . . al on a appartement lol. I have a room for it, not a real problem. The financial site is a bit a problem for the moment. I wil see how it go's. Thanks for al your input and comments.

[BogdanH]

hello wersiplayer,
You got some good points from those who are experienced piano players or they just prefer piano feel.
I'm not among them, although I appreciate good piano sound (which I use mostly when practicing or just playing) -that is, I'm arranger player in first place. I'm telling that so you can understand my view, which is not necessary the same as yours.
As you mentioned, money is the issue (it usually is), otherwise you would just buy the best piano there is.

If I would have Genos (or any TOTL arranger), then I see no reason to additionally buy a piano. I mean, you already paid for great piano voices.. so why not using them? It's why MIDI connections are there.
And if 88 hammer-action keys is a must have, then I see Studiologic SL88 as a good starting solution. Yeah, some will say it doesn't have that good hammer-action... but that will always happen, no matter what you buy -because we all have different preferences.
And even if you make a mistake with Studiologic and decide to sell it, how much can loss be? 100-200€ max. But in case you're happy with it, you can spend the remaining money for good speakers -which does make a difference.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[wersiplayer]

hello wersiplayer,
You got some good points from those who are experienced piano players or they just prefer piano feel.
I'm not among them, although I appreciate good piano sound (which I use mostly when practicing or just playing) -that is, I'm arranger player in first place. I'm telling that so you can understand my view, which is not necessary the same as yours.
As you mentioned, money is the issue (it usually is), otherwise you would just buy the best piano there is.

If I would have Genos (or any TOTL arranger), then I see no reason to additionally buy a piano. I mean, you already paid for great piano voices.. so why not using them? It's why MIDI connections are there.
And if 88 hammer-action keys is a must have, then I see Studiologic SL88 as a good starting solution. Yeah, some will say it doesn't have that good hammer-action... but that will always happen, no matter what you buy -because we all have different preferences.
And even if you make a mistake with Studiologic and decide to sell it, how much can loss be? 100-200€ max. But in case you're happy with it, you can spend the remaining money for good speakers -which does make a difference.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

I agree with you and to practice the genos sounds are fair enough. I am a keyboard/organ player in first place and as i saw to operate the midi controler it just need that midi cable connected and setup. Even if piano is after some times not my thing i can alway keep using it as a second keyboard or sel it with minimal los. altough i buyed the whole system with speakers i have a older hk lucas xt to conect so for home use not an isue.

[konaboy32]

is learning to play piano the main objective here?
you mention money is tight.
then why not just use the G2 to learn piano?  sure, it's synth action keys, but still a very nice keybed. unless you're playing advanced classical or jazz it will be fine.
the gear is not the most important consideration when learning piano, it's hard work, dedication and practice.

[mikf]

Actually the last post has merit. I am an experienced piano player and can confirm that the piano voices on all the recent arrangers are  more than good enough to get by. If you want to prove this to yourself listen to some of the recordings posted by a first class piano player... David Read ( Dalekwars). His earlier recordings are all on the SX900.
In fact most of the people who complain about the quality of the voice are not piano players, they are arranger players who play single note rh melody lines. They often feel the piano voices are too thin, and want something 'thicker'. But this is more about how they play than reality, and in my view many of the piano voices altered to be thicker then sound muddy when properly played as a piano.
The fact is that purely judged on the voice most people might have trouble hearing the difference between a decent digital piano and a decent arranger when played equally well. We actually ran a blind test here some years ago and proved that using a midi file of pure piano recorded on different instruments.
But the reason that piano players stress the feel of the action is because that is miles different on arrangers. Even a total beginner can 'feel' the difference. But doesn't mean it cant be played adequately well, and sound good in the right hands ...... again I refer you to Dalekwars. So there is no reason you can't learn to play piano  to at least some level on your Genos. Is it ideal...no... but it's ok. A relatively cheap 88 key semi weighted controller, will be better. A top of the line hammer action midi controller better still, and a real quality acoustic piano better still. But you can manage fine with the Genos. Maybe you will not develop the subtle feel that great piano players have, maybe you will never become a top class player this way, but maybe that doesnt matter, at least for a while.
Mike

[konaboy32]

i echo what mike said, however, beware of cheap 88 note hammer actions, they are likely to be worse to learn on than the genos action, which is a very good quality keybed.

cheap keybeds have terrible actions, with very short ley pivot lengths and are horrible to play especially in some key signatures.  you are better off with a good quality synth action like G2 than bad quality piano action imho.


before buying any more expensive gear, give it a shot at learning with the gear that you already have!  good luck, and get a good teacher with the money I just saved you!

[wersiplayer]

Whaw, we getting somewhere. Very nice comments indeed. I was thinking that 88 keys is a somewhat prime to have for learning piano. I dont have the ambition to become a pro player but i tought a hameraction was a need to learn piano. What i wil do, i wil test it out and see how far i comme with the g 2. Thanks guys, most apreciated.

[BogdanH]

... I was thinking that 88 keys is a somewhat prime to have for learning piano...

..and then we realize that we never use the most left/right octave.
How many keys we need depends entirely on what kind of music we play. And unless someone is heavy into classical or jazz music, 76 keys is more than enough in every situation.
Speaking for me (hobby musician), 61 keys is enough for music I play. Yes, it happens I wish there would be additional octave on left side, however "octave shift" usually solves my problem. But truth to be told, by having 76 keys one can simply play more comfortable (especially when using keybed split-points). That is, for me, 76 keys is more a wish than a need.

Bogdan

[pjd]

..and then we realize that we never use the most left/right octave.
... That is, for me, 76 keys is more a wish than a need.

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan --

Brings up something that I encountered yesterday while playing with auto-accompaniment (fingered, lower chord recognition) on a CSP-170. Initially, the LEFT (lower) voice is piano and playing fingered chords is perfectly awful -- everything our piano teachers told us about close left hand voicings on piano.

Yamaha doesn't provide a lot of guidance as to using the CSP's auto-accompaniment sensibly. I feel the urge to write coming on.

BTW, the CSPs support only fingered and full AI -- nuttin' else. Not coincidentally, these are the only two fingerings mentioned in current arranger Owner's Manuals. Yamaha giving us a nudge?

Take care -- pj

[BogdanH]

hi pj,

...BTW, the CSPs support only fingered and full AI -- nuttin' else.

Interesting -I didn't know that.
Ok, fingered or AI fingered is also what I use on PSR-SX, so that's fine. But I'm totally lost with AI Full 

Bogdan

[pjd]

Yep, I'm trying to find the best way to make use of the CSP's auto-accompaniment. AI Full Keyboard seems natural, but it cannot recognize 9th, 11th and 13th chords.

The way Clavinovas are positioned, AI Full Keyboard kinda makes sense. The Clavinova ethos is "just sit down and play."

Another nudge -- Smart Pianist style control has three buttons: Rhythm, Bass and Other. The "Other" button enables and disables all other style parts than Rhythm and Bass. I kinda like playing with just drums and bass. With AI Full Keyboard, the auto-accompaniment is less likely to wander off the ski trail WRT wanted/unwanted supporting tones.

Some of the portable pianos, e.g., P-515, have AI Full Keyboard using just drums and bass.

I'm glad that I have a little experience on arrangers before trying CSP -- pj

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/new-year-new-piano/

[Christophermoment]

..and then we realize that we never use the most left/right octave.
How many keys we need depends entirely on what kind of music we play. And unless someone is heavy into Classical or jazz music, 76 keys is more than enough in every situation.
Speaking for me (hobby musician), 61 keys is enough for music I play. Yes, it happens I wish there would be additional octave on left side, however "octave shift" usually solves my problem. But truth to be told, by having 76 keys one can simply play more comfortable (especially when using keybed split-points). That is, for me, 76 keys is more a wish than a need.

Bogdan

Reminds me of the conversations that Mozart, Haydn, Liszt, Chopin and Beethoven used to have. They always wanted more keys.   Think the piano by Bartolomeo Cristofori only had 4 octaves.