Genos2 styles on PSR-SX

[Lacko]

Hi Adam,
you probably don't understand one basic thing (mentioned couple of times above), that every keyboard can play - regardless if right hand melody or styles - only voices which are built-in that keyboard (or loaded from expansion packs) and processed with built-in sound processor. Every level of keyboards - SX600, SX700, SX900, Genos - contains different set of voices, sound processor and set of usable effects. SX600 is lower level with older sound processor than others in this line.
And even voice with the same name in other level keyboard will probably sound differently. Try to live with the fact that SX600 will never sound like Genos. No AI can help with this. Sorry.

[ton37]

Agree what is written above. As an example: Here you can listen to an attempt to imitate the G2 on a SX900. In itself quite a nice composition, well sounded. But when you have the intention to compare: it just misses the 'sound' of the G2 (Ambience fx/ drums/Sa2 voices). If you want, search the internet for 'Desert Adventure Genos2' and see/listen for yourself to compare. E.g. (G2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjx0iQqwbwA

(Sx900) Click on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m646bcmgfUk

[BogdanH]

hi Adam,

...But, ai is making rapid progress...

-let me tell you, as a programmer, that AI (in true sense) doesn't exist yet. As in "old days", every result is still defined/predicted by programmed algorithms... programmed by people.

Anyway, I'm sure that sooner or later someone will translate Genos2 styles for other keyboards and make them available. Some of those converted styles will sound good enough and some not -as is usually the case 

..And, i also have a question about the midi to style software, how does it work really? Does it use ai to know the intro, outro and main etc, or does it use the method where it find loopaple bars and make it to a style? Also, the bass doesnt change, for example, it plays just c c c c instead of c g c g?

As I said, there's no AI magic -result depends only on programmer's skill and on midi source.
About C-C-C-C instead of C-G-C-G... You shouldn't expect that the resulting style track will be correct automatically. That's why there are additional settings in MidiToStyle, where you can influence what note pattern you wish. But depending on midi file, even those settings many times aren't enough (if interested, read this post.)

And let me add... SX600 is quite capable keyboard on which one can play wonderful music once you learn it's capability. But it takes time!

Bogdan

[Denn]

Hello all. I really don't understand all this. You go out and spend gigadollars on a keyboard and then want to change it. I play at age care homes and in a restaurant and I doubt if anyone would recognise the difference between my T4 and my SX700. Chris summed it up " Use what you have (and what you paid for), or buy a larger/better model."
Kind regards, Denn.

[Joe H]

yes, but is there any software out there wich can comvert styles from and to keyboards? Or is it not made yet? And, is Onasimus working on new convertions, or is he active?

If anyone can do great conversions of the Genos 2 styles it's him.  We don't know if he is still active and has access to the Genos2. We will have to wait and see.



Joe H

[Joe H]

I don't see Onacimus listed as a member anymore... too bad.



Joe H

[DerekA]

Hello all. I really don't understand all this. You go out and spend gigadollars on a keyboard and then want to change it.

One of the key features of these keyboards is that they are not closed to modification - you can add new voices, new styles, change styles, etc. It's the flexibility that makes them appealing to many people.

[pjd]

thanks for your support. But, AI is making rapid progress, so soon it may be able to listen to genos-styles, check through the MIDI files on genos, play them in the sx-600 and fix everything automatic, it will probably work, but we'll see.🎁

I once taught computer science. The hype around AI is cyclical. 

But, I would gladly convert genos2 styles to sx-600 if it had voice guide, but now it doesn't have it, but I have tyros1 tyros2 styles, but also onasimus psr-sx910 styles on psr-SX600 but some styles on "my sx600" sound rather strange, the guitars are too loud, the organs sounds like an organ and doesn't change type, but does the s910 have more effects and stuff like an sx-600?

The S910 is at least one major generation of hardware behind the SX600. So, yes, I would expect them to sound different.

And, I also have a question about the midi to style software, how does it work really? Does it use AI to know the intro, outro and main etc., or does it use the method where it find loopable bars and make it to a style? Also, the bass doesn't change, for example, it plays just c c c c instead of c g c g?

I sense a desire to learn on your part. All good! If I were teaching today, I would love to have a grad student or two working on MIDI to style, and a bunch of other projects. 

Why not deep dive this area? It's interesting as heck -- pj 

[richkeys]

One of the key features of these keyboards is that they are not closed to modification - you can add new voices, new styles, change styles, etc. It's the flexibility that makes them appealing to many people.

Derek,
Very true. Ton's YTube link above to the SX version of the G2's Desert Adventure style is an example of a step in the right direction for modifying a keyboard we already own. It just takes some creative solutions.

Analyzing that video a little more, I am hearing a duduk voice that SX900 doesn't have, so assuming he bought Dynamix-Audio's duduk pack, because I know of no other vendor offering that voice. He also probably is using the preset Arabic Percussion multi-pad along with a simple sustaining pad Style. He uses no variations so the whole thing is a bit monotonous. My suggestion for SX owners interested in this Desert Adventure style would be to start with the Game of Thrones style (TV Blockbuster I think) converted from Genos for the dramatic drums, and alter the style variations from there, add the multi-pads etc.  I also think the emotional quality of the dukuk voice is the key to imitating this performance, as SX's preset reeds, flutes, neys don't cut it. Also Drake posted his conversion a few weeks ago in this forum.

Yet another example of doing something that others said can't be done.

Rich

[overover]

... The S910 is at least one major generation of hardware behind the SX600. So, yes, I would expect them to sound different. ...

Hi pj,

The S910 is one Tone Generator (TG) generation behind the SX600 but several CPU generations: 



   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

PSR Model	TG	CPU (Master)	CPU (Slave)
PSR-SX900	SWP70	AM4376 @1GHz	--
PSR-SX700	SWP70	AM4376 @1GHz	--
PSR-SX600	SWP70	??	--
PSR-S975	SWP70	SH7731 @320MHz ??	--
PSR-S775	SWP70	SH7731 @320MHz ??	--
PSR-S970	SWP70	SH7731 @320MHz	--
PSR-S770	SWP70	SH7731 @320MHz	--
PSR-S950	SWP51L	SH7731 @256MHz	SSP2
PSR-S750	SWP51L	SWX08 @135.4752MHz	--
PSR-S910	SWP51L	SH7727 @128MHz	SWX02
PSR-S710	SWP51L	SH7727 @128MHz	--
PSR-S900	SWP51L	SH7727 @128MHz	SH7009S @200MHz
PSR-S700	SWP51L	SH7727 @128MHz	--

Best regards,
Chris

[Enildo]

Hey guys!

About the DesertAdventure style, I'm using the following:
*Track 9: TurkishKit (Drums section)
*Track 10: RockDrumKit (Drums section)
*Track 11: Automatically recognized
*Track 12: Automatically recognized
*Track 13: Automatically recognized
*Track 14: Automatically recognized
*Track 15: Hackbrett1 (Strings section)
*Track 16: Dulcimer (Drums section)
For me it works perfect, very similar to the original in my SX900!

[Enildo]

I'm converting the G2 styles to my SX900 without much difficulty. I confess that there are many styles that I fell in love with. I feel like I'm completing a collection of stickers with each style I convert.
The SX900 already recognizes most track timbres.
On some tracks, the icon with the "piano symbol" appears, as if the timbre was not recognized, but when you play the style, the track plays, even without showing the original icon. Even without showing the actual icon, the track plays the correct timbre! That is great!
I think the SX900's timbres bank is more complete than that of the SX700, SX600 and previous models.

Enildo

[richkeys]

About the DesertAdventure style, I'm using the following:
*Track 9: TurkishKit (Drums section)
*Track 10: RockDrumKit (Drums section)
*Track 11: Automatically recognized
*Track 12: Automatically recognized
*Track 13: Automatically recognized
*Track 14: Automatically recognized
*Track 15: Hackbrett1 (Strings section)
*Track 16: Dulcimer (Drums section)
For me it works perfect, very similar to the original in my SX900!

What are Tracks 9-16? Isn't Styles revoicing set in the Rhythm1, Rhythm2, Chord, Phrase etc. columns?

Rich

[pjd]

Hi pj,

The S910 is one Tone Generator (TG) generation behind the SX600 but several CPU generations: 

Chris

Nice chart. 

Alright, alright, it's never that simple. 

I focused on SWP51L vs. SWP70 because that's where the tone generation and effects reside. All of the SH/SWX are a variant of the SH-2 RISC architecture with the host CPU handling mainly user interface.

There's a huge "but" coming. The PSR-S650 is based solely on SWX02 (no separate tone generator IC). The SWX02 is an SH-2 with the AWM2 tone generator integrated onto the same chip. The PSR-S670 is SWX08 based, again with TG and SH-2 core on the same silicon.

I haven't seen the service manual for PSR-SX600, but I'm willing to put money (or a few beers) on SWX09.  Anybody got a service manual for the SX600?

I have no life -- pj   

P.S. I think I'm conflating threads...

[overover]

Thanks for your kind and detailed feedback, pj!

... There's a huge "but" coming. The PSR-S650 is based solely on SWX02 (no separate tone generator IC). The SWX02 is an SH-2 with the AWM2 tone generator integrated onto the same chip. The PSR-S670 is SWX08 based, again with TG and SH-2 core on the same silicon. ...

This is exactly what I found out today (that S650/670 don't have a separate TG chip, but everything runs on the CPU chip). That's why I didn't include these two models in the posted chart. 


Best regards,
Chris

[Enildo]

What are Tracks 9-16? Isn't Styles revoicing set in the Rhythm1, Rhythm2, Chord, Phrase etc. columns?

Rich

6 for half a dozen

[AdamRastrand1234]

is drake comverting new genos styles genos for s950, and i wonder, could anyone send me all tyros2 and tyros1 demo songs in midi format

[Aquilauno]

I'm converting the G2 styles to my SX900 without much difficulty. I confess that there are many styles that I fell in love with. I feel like I'm completing a collection of stickers with each style I convert.
The SX900 already recognizes most track timbres.
On some tracks, the icon with the "piano symbol" appears, as if the timbre was not recognized, but when you play the style, the track plays, even without showing the original icon. Even without showing the actual icon, the track plays the correct timbre! That is great!
I think the SX900's timbres bank is more complete than that of the SX700, SX600 and previous models.

Enildo

Hi Enildo
I also noticed this on the Genos1 styles... Some tracks on the SX900 appear with a piano icon or a black icon, sometimes the channel plays, sometimes not. Often percussion / drum kits are not correctly recognized, sametimes bass or chords or phasers but you just have to experiment and you will find something more suitable. It's more nerve-wracking to correct the OTS because there are many more gaps to fill and fix. Jorgen Soresen's Style Revoicer and OTS viewer are a great help in filling in the gaps (I applaud Jorgen for his programs,I hope he has time to implement the voices and OTS of Genos2 too). I don't expect the styles to sound on the SX900 as in Genos2. But there are plenty of new and interesting styles that sound pretty good on the SX900 too. Peter

[mixermixer]

I got to try revoicing the "80sDX ballad" on my sx900, so far I am alright with the results. Mostly I was listening to the Martin Harris demo from Yamaha and trying to match the equivalent voice available on the sx900. My first attempt was the "80sGrooveBallad" that was from the Genos 1, only issue is the sax is different which I assume is a SA2 voice, so I had to leave that one blank. Using any other sax voice did not sound right at all.

YMMV.

[Enildo]

Hi Enildo
I also noticed this on the Genos1 styles... Some tracks on the SX900 appear with a piano icon or a black icon, sometimes the channel plays, sometimes not. Often percussion / drum kits are not correctly recognized, sametimes bass or chords or phasers but you just have to experiment and you will find something more suitable. It's more nerve-wracking to correct the OTS because there are many more gaps to fill and fix. Jorgen Soresen's Style Revoicer and OTS viewer are a great help in filling in the gaps (I applaud Jorgen for his programs,I hope he has time to implement the voices and OTS of Genos2 too). I don't expect the styles to sound on the SX900 as in Genos2. But there are plenty of new and interesting styles that sound pretty good on the SX900 too. Peter

Exactly Peter.
I'm not worrying about OTS.
The reverb should also be updated, as the SX does not have the new reverb (Revelation) of the G2.
Furthermore, it's very interesting to make new styles work on my blessed SX900.

Enildo

[AdamRastrand1234]

is drake still converting genos2 styles for psr-s950? Would be great fun, and, i apreciate onasimus work very, very much! But, is he comverting genos2 styles to?

[BogdanH]

What are Tracks 9-16? Isn't Styles revoicing set in the Rhythm1, Rhythm2, Chord, Phrase etc. columns?

Rich

Yes, that's correct:
Track9 =Rhy1, Track10=Rhy2, etc.
-track names (Bass, Chord1, etc.) are used so we can remember easier what content is expected to be there.

Bogdan

[richkeys]

Yes, that's correct:
Track9 =Rhy1, Track10=Rhy2, etc.
-track names (Bass, Chord1, etc.) are used so we can remember easier what content is expected to be there.

Thanks for confirming my question. I didn't know this. I was looking for these track numbers in the mixer and cannot find them.

Rich

[DrakeM]

Yes, I am working on converting three of the categories so far but just the styles that appear to be completely new style names.

Peter is converting as well G2 styles to work on his Tyros 5. I will look at his styles later and rework them if needed to work on my PSR-S950.

It just takes time but will "get 'er done".