Genos2 and Yamaha Expansion Packs (G1)

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi, and congrats to all that desided to go for G2. 

Is there any of you that got hands on G2 that have tried to load any of the 'old' expansionpacks into G2. If not by use of YEM, but maybe .ppi via USB?
If so, how did it work out and how does it sound?
What about all kind of other styles created for G1 and other Y models, does it load nicely and sound reasonable good, or lot to tweak and adjust?

Just curious, because I won't be in any hurry to replace G1 if the addnonpacks geting useless. It's lots og good stuff in those, also the Latin and Brazilian ones. 

[DaPaleRider]

I will give it a try in a few hours. I think the packs will be updated soon with support for Ambient Drums and some new voices. I expect some totally new 80s Packs also with FM voices 

[Flemming]

I tried but didn't succeed. But I'm not super user of YEM, in fact I'm disappointed that the new version 2.10 is not better than the old. You can still not get full access to edit in Genos2's own voices.

I need some bass-sounds for my Roland PK5 pedals, and I use to make a split, so the notes from E and up are 1 octave lower, to have more natural sound like a real bass. That's impossible to do in YEM. So my workaround er to record some bass-sounds played on Genos2 on Genos2 itself, import the Wavefile into YEM, make a new voice from them, and put them back as a 3. part voices. Cracy! In this proces, I lose a lot of the dynamic.

I simply don't get why we are not aloud to use its own voices directly. On Tyros up to T4 this was possible, and I HAVE complained to YAMAHA for it.

But to your question - I could not import my old bass-voices from Genos1 or any of the other packs, but maybe I should try to export them from Genos1 to YEM, or something. Will try later :-)

All the best Flemming, Denmark

[DaPaleRider]

When trying to import the packs in YEM I get the following message, while the instrument definition is loaded

The Pack could not be imported because there is no instrument capable of using this Pack.

Currently the packs are nog supported.

[EileenL]

All Yamaha PPF files should load in with no problem. I believe the Yamaha free packs
for Genos 1 also load with no problem.

[Danny1972]

All Yamaha PPF files should load in with no problem. I believe the Yamaha free packs
for Genos 1 also load with no problem.

I really hope so because I've been saving the styles from the packs individually (in case) and it's really killing my fingers!!

[chony]

I cannot load the packs either. 

[overover]

I cannot load the packs either. 

Hi chony,

The protected .cpf pack files of the Yamaha Free Packs only work with a specific model, so the Genos(1) versions do not work with Genos2. We have to wait until Yamaha provides the revised Genos2 .cpf versions.


Best regards,
Chris

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chris
What a twisted mess this Yamaha Yem is.
After about an hour of trying to connect my keyboard to wi-fi i eventaully got three Easysound packs into Genos 2
Anyone done a sound edit in Yem yet with added latency when testing?

[janrhansen]

I know that Leigh Wilbraham stated in a video that the Epic Strings pack from soundpacks.co.uk should be able to load into the G2. Since it seems like a very popular pack for Genos users.
I hope other of their packs are also in the non protected format. He didn't go in details tho wether it was thru YEM or you could just copy it to an usb stick and move it to the G2.

I am also new to the YEM. And Yamaha seriously need to scrap this piece of junk and give us a decent piece of software that don't feel like it's from the last milennium.
But alas, Yamaha is sadly not the only company that don't seem interested in giving people the ability to be creative with their instruments by providing at least a decent piece of software for editing voices and provide the ability to access some of the more advanced features when creating your own sampled voices.

[Michael Trigoboff]

I think that Yamaha wants you to buy a Montage if you want to do extensive editing on voices.

[Sokratis1974]

I think that Yamaha wants you to buy a Montage if you want to do extensive editing on voices.

And is that right? Then what is the meaning of the concept "Digital Workstation"? It's something I'm wondering as a Genos 1 user and as far as I can see the same tactic continues in Genos 2 and I honestly can't give any explanation. I would very much like to buy Genos 2, but the creativity here is also sadly pathetic. I should note here that Yamaha has now changed the name and now calls it "Arranger Workstation" but again it does not change anything. Korg continues to be at the forefront of creativity (followed by Ketron to a degree) and is the only company that, whether it is an Arranger or a workstation (Kronos, Nautilus, etc.), provides all the software tools and any processing the creator needs (onboard) even in the smallest models. Someone will ask me here: Then why don't you have a Korg? I have, but I'm sorry that Yamaha with such a good sound (perhaps the best of all companies), is so (closed) in terms of creativity.

[Christophermoment]

And is that right?
Then why don't you have a Korg? I have, but I'm sorry that Yamaha with such a good sound (perhaps the best of all companies), is so (closed) in terms of creativity.

Simple answer. Yes, it is right. This is what they want, and from their research they seem to have got it right. 

[soundphase]

I globally disagree. Genos1 and 2 are "digital workstations"

A saxo is a saxo, Strings are strings, drums are drums. And even DX7 pianos are DX7 pianos.

We have all what is necessary to change effects, to program styles.
We are able to mix 8 elements into 1 sound with YEM.
Yesterday, I created what I currently think is a better symphonic strings orchestra sound starting from SeattleLushStrings, mainly by changing Reverb, EQ, velocity parameters.

Only synthetic sounds should be fully "built".
And in this case, one should buy a synthesizer and not an arranger.

[ton37]

And is that right? Then what is the meaning of the concept "Digital Workstation"? It's something I'm wondering as a Genos 1 user and as far as I can see the same tactic continues in Genos 2 and I honestly can't give any explanation. I would very much like to buy Genos 2, but the creativity here is also sadly pathetic. I should note here that Yamaha has now changed the name and now calls it "Arranger Workstation" but again it does not change anything. Korg continues to be at the forefront of creativity (followed by Ketron to a degree) and is the only company that, whether it is an Arranger or a workstation (Kronos, Nautilus, etc.), provides all the software tools and any processing the creator needs (onboard) even in the smallest models. Someone will ask me here: Then why don't you have a Korg? I have, but I'm sorry that Yamaha with such a good sound (perhaps the best of all companies), is so (closed) in terms of creativity.

Oh well, 'what's in the name'? My computer is an 'Extreme Platinum XL' and does the same with Excel as my cellphone. My orange juice is said it is made from 100% oranges, but it contains 90% water? The speedometer of my Mazda reads 260 km/h, never reached and never complained. Petrol brand with Fuelsave or V-Power and then with beautiful green or blue colors, which associate with nature or blue sky, as if it is good for our living environment? And then Yamaha calls something a 'Workstation', so what ... do you believe it's in the name?

[BogdanH]

...so what ... do you believe it's in the name?

-you nailed it. All these labels (workstation, professional, etc.) have become marketing fluff.
The only thing that describes and differentiates keyboards is it's basic characteristic: arranger, stage piano, portable, synthesizer, etc. The rest is in manual (specifications) which tells us about particular keyboard capability. And here, we like it or not, Korg has advantage. Does that mean Korg Pa5X is better than Yamaha Genos2? None is better: it depends on user's preference.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Sokratis1974]

I expressed an opinion, but everyone sees it differently and I have no reason to doubt any of you.  I wouldn't want to continue it.  Whether I disagree or not is of little consequence so let's move on.

[pjd]

I think that Yamaha wants you to buy a Montage if you want to do extensive editing on voices.

I agree with Michael. Yamaha have their "product silos" and never the twain shall meet.

Another example: Digital pianos. Editing? Ha, ha, ha! Open the lid and set the brilliance.

As to labels, they affect customer expectations. Some people have expectations for a "workstation." What can I say, but I don't debate such semantics. I agree with Bogdan that labels have more than a whiff of marketing around them.

Going Zen -- all labels are wrong and meaningless    -- pj

[Michael Trigoboff]

Our situation as Yamaha users is something like being members of a religion.

The latest Word has just come down from Yamaha, and that Word is Genos2. If you are not a fan of getting struck by lightning, you learn not to argue with God. Telling God he should have said something different is just begging for the lightning.

You can pray all you want on IdeaScale, but your prayers may or may not be answered.

Humble acceptance of the Word of God is what is called for. 

(By the way, computer programming is exactly the same thing. When your code doesn't work, arguing with the computer or compiler doesn't help. Lord knows I've tried...)

[BogdanH]

hi Michael,
A lot of truth in what you say... you could make a career as a writer 

...You can pray all you want on IdeaScale, but your prayers may or may not be answered...

-allow me to translate:
IdeaScale is just a marketing move to give an impression that manufacturer cares about customers opinion. To put it differently, a secret place where customer can vent by thinking that he can influence future decisions (instead of complaining all over the internet).

Not bad, huh? 

Bogdan

[Oldden]

When all is said and done, Genos 1, 2 maybe even 3 are just a keyboards to play music on. If you want to get into the real design and construction of music, they are not the things to buy, get a synth or music software, there are lots of options on a professional level.  All the names that are given are just waffle to make them sound like what they aren't. But sitting down and just  playing music is what they excel in.

[pjd]

IdeaScale is just a marketing move to give an impression that manufacturer cares about customers opinion. To put it differently, a secret place where customer can vent by thinking that he can influence future decisions (instead of complaining all over the internet).

Bogdan, even I'm not that cynical. 

Back when I was in development, we had an overwhelming list of bugs and suggestions. Trying to prioritize them was a real bear. There are always too many things to do and not enough developer resources. IdeaScale voting helps prioritize.

Yeah, Yamaha is far from perfect, but I don't think they're being intentionally evil.  BTW, I've spoken with the Yamaha synth guys and they use IdeaScale as leverage with Japan. They're kind of between a rock and a hard place getting customer wants into product.

All the best -- pj

[BogdanH]

hi pj,

Bogdan, even I'm not that cynical. 

.. I thought it's good to stir a pot now and then 

..
Yeah, Yamaha is far from perfect, but I don't think they're being intentionally evil.  ...

But seriously... Although I'm not really into Genos, I've been following on this forum what wishes Genos1 owners had/have. And what of that has been implemented in Genos2? Right!
As far I can remember, nobody asked for better voices (as those have already been perfect)... and imagine, Yamaha managed to achieve the impossible: they made them even better. ...darn, am I getting sarcastic again? 

Genos (1&2) are both very good keyboards and the end, the only thing that matters is what comes out of them: it's up to the player. In that sense, sincere congrats to Genos2 owners.

Bogdan

[robinez]

And is that right? Then what is the meaning of the concept "Digital Workstation"? It's something I'm wondering as a Genos 1 user and as far as I can see the same tactic continues in Genos 2 and I honestly can't give any explanation. I would very much like to buy Genos 2, but the creativity here is also sadly pathetic. I should note here that Yamaha has now changed the name and now calls it "Arranger Workstation" but again it does not change anything. Korg continues to be at the forefront of creativity (followed by Ketron to a degree) and is the only company that, whether it is an Arranger or a workstation (Kronos, Nautilus, etc.), provides all the software tools and any processing the creator needs (onboard) even in the smallest models. Someone will ask me here: Then why don't you have a Korg? I have, but I'm sorry that Yamaha with such a good sound (perhaps the best of all companies), is so (closed) in terms of creativity.

in my opinion they use the concept digital workstation to emphasize that you can record your performances, a workstation doesn't have to have synthesis onboard to deserve that title in my opinion. It's obvious that yamaha with their arranger range are focusing on the players that just want to play their tunes without too much hassle. And the people I know with a genos 1 or 2 have selected a yamaha just for that reason, they find a Korg way too complicated and don't need all those bells and whistles on board. They just want to fire it up and play that cover song. And that is where yamaha is the king of all keyboards, no-one comes close when you want to play covers, the yamaha has it all.

The korg aims more on the people that want to dive in to each detail of a style or sound, they are more programmers type and the number of styles available is a lot less than the yamaha ones. Also all the styles are more sparse then the yamaha ones, so you have do more yourself to get an equally result.

That doesn't mean that yamaha shouldn't step up their game in my opinion, using that same old YEM program is shocking, I really didn't expect that in 2023 for their new flagship. Also the three new features are not that impressive, the new samples are a big improvement and also the new styles are sounding really good. I don't really understand why they added an FM synth in it without editing possibilities. They could have easily done the same with a new FM sample pack for the sounds if they wanted it.

But I really believe it's a good thing that we have two arrangers that are focusing on different areas, this way the users can decide what appeals to them the most for their musical wishes. They are both top of the line keyboards, so you can't go wrong with either of them.

I don't have any experience with the Ketron event, I've played on it in the music store, but that was too short to really get an opinion.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I still think that the Genos 2 sound has the edge over the PAX5

Then saxes are second to none and the orchestras and guitars have been improved
The Genos has a more rounded sound if you know what i mean.
Then again it is only my opinion.

[EileenL]

Yes that is the way the cookie crumbles. You choose what suits you best and an awful lot must have chosen Yamaha or this forum would have faded away by now.

[Gunnar Jonny]

I still think that the Genos 2 sound has the edge over the PAX5
---
The Genos has a more rounded sound if you know what i mean.
Then again it is only my opinion.

I'm looking forward to compare those 'beasts' side by side in not too long. Just now I have the Pa5X and G1. Two different animals, and if I dare to say so, both are great arranger keyboards, but Pa5X sounds more 'rounded', or a better way to express it, softer in my ears. 
Usually I find Yamaha more cold and CD'ish than i.e. Ketron and Korg, so if it's so that Y G2 now sounds more rounded, that will be a plus for me.