Critique Genos2..by owners?

[mikf]

Far from ripping anyone off, they have saved you thousands.......because if you think Genos 1 is just as good there is no need to buy Genos 2.
Mike

[Mark]

I don't own G2 (play G1) and will try to express my mixed feelings about this new keyboard. I hope many people share some similar thoughts

To start with I can totally understand people's frustration and disappointment. I watched the official genos presentation as well and my immediate reaction/feeling was exactly that - disappointment. I was waiting for G2 presentation and I didn't find anything that will make me upgrade from Genos 1.

Now I slept on it and then I realized that basically the problem was not in G2 but in my expectations. Yes, I thought that after 6 years of development and considering a massive upgrade which Yamaha introduced moving from tyros 5 to genos I expect lots of changes. I also saw how many new features other competitors introduced in their new versions (yes, they have bugs, but they've tried hard, no doubt about that). But obviously, Yamaha thought differently and they prefer small incremental changes to massive upgrades. That's the way Yamaha works and I can't influence that in any way, kind of "take it or leave it" approach.
Does the existence of G2 make G1 a bad instrument? No, of course not, it's the same fabulous instrument. Are there any musical ideas that I can't express with G1 and I desperately need G2? - No of course not, far from that, frankly speaking, G1 is way more advanced musically than I'm or I'll ever be (well, here I express my own opinion as an amateur who plays only at home, but I believe many users like me will agree).

So I have many choices actually:

- Just stay with my current G1 - after all, I still love it. "Skipping" to G3 can be a good plan.

- Wait till the price drops on G2 after the initial "rush" and buy it / buy a secondhand one, maybe Yamaha will release an OS upgrade to it and it will make more sense/justification to upgrade

- No Rush - go to the store and compare G1 and G2 and see by myself (and not from YouTube videos) whether it is worth the pricey upgrade now. G2 is not available in my country yet, so I'm waiting to see it by myself. Two things that I noticed meanwhile, which might tell me to not buy G2:
   1. Many of new styles can be relatively easily converted to G1 to the level of sound that I like, some re-voicing, some re-mixing - and voila, obviously they won't sound like "native G2" but still very good
   2. For those people who really want FM sounds and are considering upgrading from G1 to G2 - for the price difference of "trade-in" they can buy a modx /modx+ or something and fill that gap and get many other features (personally I don't feel such a need).
But on the other hand, I understand that Yamaha concentrated on sound quality and maybe I'm just wrong and when I'll hear G2 I'll realize that, who knows... Anyway, as I tell myself - no rush.

- Buy a keyboard from another brand in addition to / instead of G1. Some people will like this idea, some won't, but it's a viable option after all. At least to learn something new this sounds like a good idea. Pro people having hundreds/thousands of registrations and accustomed to their setup will probably disagree though. But after all, it's just a keyboard, for me, it's a hobby, so it is for many people here. PA5X / Event in addition to Genos 1 sounds to me like a killer combination, probably way better than G2 alone.

I also realize that for many people who don't own G1, this new Genos is a massive upgrade, because I can't claim that G2 is a bad keyboard on its own, quite the opposite. So maybe people who already own G1 are not "target customers" for G2 release? I don't know that but the time will tell - maybe Yamaha will sell a lot of G2 instruments and it will be a "success story" for the company.

So, as I said, mixed feelings, decisions, decisions...

[BogdanH]

Hello Mark,

..Are there any musical ideas that I can't express with G1 and I desperately need G2? - No of course not, far from that, frankly speaking G1 is way more advanced musically than I'm or I'll ever be...

-so what's the problem?
In your post you mainly say that you see no reason for you to buy Genos2. On the other hand, I have an impression that you wish someone would tell you the reasons why you should buy it anyway -to help you justify that decision.

That's something I notice many times here in forum. After a while we run out of musical ideas, excitement starts fading and we seek for new dope: playing with the keyboard instead of playing the keyboard. If that's the reason for changing keyboard, then that's usually very short term solution -and expensive at that.

Just my 2c,
Bogdan

[Mark]

I just expressed my opinion, because in the latest posts in this thread people talked about "ripping off" the G1 owners - I, being a genos 1 owner, personally don't think its true and tried to express my attitude to that statement in my post, just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter, hope its ok and doesn't insult anyone.

So no, there is no problem at all, just my thoughts...

[ton37]

Hi @Mark: A good example of introspection: head and heart are not in balance here. Thanks for sharing: Courage!

[EileenL]

Great Answer,
Technology moves on and so must we if we want the latest innovations.

[BogdanH]

I just expressed my opinion, because in the latest posts in this thread people talked about "ripping off" the G1 owners...
..So no, there is no problem at all, just my thoughts...

All clear Mark 
I agree with you about "ripp off" -nobody is twisting our arms to force us to buy something (it's entirely our decision).

Bogdan

[Gunnar Jonny]

- Just stay with my current G1 - after all I still love it. "Skipping" to G3 can be a good plan.

- Buy a keyboard from another brand in addition to / instead of G1. Some people will like this idea, some won't, but its a viable option after all. At least to learn something new this sounds like a good idea.

To keep the G1 and wait for next successor (if it ever comes) was my first decision. Then I thought to add a Pa4X would be a killer combination, and it certainly was. Liked the Pa4 a lot, in fact as much that I decided to sell it and buy a Pa5X-76. The Korg OS was pretty new for me anyway, so I thoght I could just jump into it.
Now I've learned that the very new Pa5X Korg OS in fact is quite similiar to Genos in many ways, and the keyboard itself is very well build, lovely keys, it's easy to look and feel the quality, and it sounds great. So far it's no signs at all that make me wanna to get rid of it. 

But, then I took a look at the calendar and realized where I'm standing when look at what year we're heading into. My age!! 
Eileen has always said that we don't get anything with us when we leave, neither the money, so I sold G1, ordered a G2 that hopefully is here tomorrow.
I'm not that impressed by the demo videos, neither by the look of "squeaky Plastic Fantastic made in Chi...) that looks similiar as G1. Anyway, I'm quite sure G2 is the very best Arranger keyboard from Yamaha till now.
Another thing is, so far I have never experienced any hardware issues in my Yamaha products.
Finally, the greatest thing of all:  I got my wifes permission, so I dont have to ask for forgiveness! 

[terryB]

The one thing about the release of a new keyboard i've noticed over the years, is that it attracts a fair degree of hostility from various posters, some who's name you don't normally see as contributors, For what ever the reason, they get a 'bee in their bonnet' over the new release and wish to avail others of their opinions without any valid reason. I recall being a member of a UK based forum some years ago at the time of the release of Tyros 3 and a storm brewing up over hostile posters thrashing the new release to such and extent the forum owner closed it for a couple of days to let it die down 

The original poster for this thread asked the question where the critics of G2 owners, I think certainly not.
Anyway one day this next week I shall be a proud owner, Epiano's have stock, and one of them is mine 

Chees Terry

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I think PAX 5 owners will not admit that the Genos 2  is far superior in sound and simplicity and purchased it because of the lateness of the Genos 2 being impatient. This is my view.
I have heard the PAX5 and I find it not as good sounding as the Genos 1, only in the features it has, but Genos 2 has blown the PAX5 out of the water with the sound and if you dive deeper, you will find that Genos 2 is unbelievable.
The onboard sound Interface now means it is easier than ever to record into Cubase but my only criticism is that the Steinbeg driver is ok, but could be better relating to the latency of 10ms instead of 5ms which would be perfect. Maybe Steinberg will upgrade the driver at some point.
To be fair not many people will hear the effect of 10ms, but 5ms would be best at 256 samples.
Also with the USB it is easier than ever to record midi or wave directly into Cubase from the keyboard.
Now you can even step record a user track. Great for a perfect track without the note partials flack that you see and shows up in Cubase.
All this makes for a great studio recording at home.
For the just sit and play players, most would not notice very slight melody glitches in their user styles as concentrating on playing.
It is great to make your own recordings to hear on a decent hi-fi in good quality.

[Dnj]

I'd say you have to ask yourself will G2 allow me play any better then I do now?
That said, enjoy whatever you play & Happy Holiday To All!

[Gunnar Jonny]

I'd say you have to ask yourself will G2 allow me play any better then I do now?
That said, enjoy whatever you play & Happy Holiday To All!

I have to admit that G2 or Pa5 will not make me play any better, the only thing that helps in that matter is practise, practise, practise and more practise. 
It sure will give me lots of fun, but probably also more grey hair when explore and try figure out things. 

Happy Holidays to you also Donny.
My guess is that we will se a G2 logo in your avatar in not too long..... 

[EileenL]

No of course new keyboards don't make you play any better but the quality of sound on it will make you enjoy practicing much more and enjoying it.

[Amwilburn]

No of course new keyboards don't make you play any better but the quality of sound on it will make you enjoy practicing much more and enjoying it.

And inspires you to play, which also echo's what Bogdan said

[Oldden]

One thing I'm not understanding is saying that it is able to play sounds from the DX7, what I remember, it's a long time since I had a go on one is that the Dx7 had six operators, each altering the next one in the list and the sounds came from cartridges of 32 sounds and was a nightmare to program from the tiny display. If we only get a tiny non alterable selection then what's the point of saying fm sounds when there is not the same control or choice is sounds.
It's possible that Yamaha will bring out some form of editor for dx files. Dexed is a good DX7 emulator and will run as a stand-alone or as a vst in most DAWs and it's free. Plus there are lots of others. Maybe something similar from Yamaha that will let us load new sounds into Genos. as it is it seems a dead end.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

What i cannot understand is that we have a DX engine and a basic set of 128 sounds on the pack like a GM selection
There are thousands of DX sounds out there, no need for messing with operators, but we cannot access them.
I think that is mean because DX voices are small in size, so plenty of room on the Genos for them.
I can beat them at their own game as i can now play vst's on the Genos 2. Sky the limit for ideas

[alvaromrocha]

Far from ripping anyone off, they have saved you thousands.......because if you think Genos 1 is just as good there is no need to buy Genos 2.
Mike

The moment G1 is discontinued from upgrades because of essentially of a 5K+ Genos 1 in disguise (as 2), you're being milked, not catered to. Also groomed for the next.

They sucker punched me the first time, with all the bull*** of permanent OS upgrades and listening to customers and Genos being an evolving playform... Not good fidekization on pro newcomers, but maybe they don't care and sre avoiding putting a cannibalizing tooth onto the ModX/montage crew....

It's a great keyboard, too grest to be made a forward incompatible outdated non future proof great sounding cash grabbing paper weight, which if Ysmaha keeps at this, it will be.

[EileenL]

Get with it and move with the times or let those of us who have bought this GREAT keyboard enjoy it. Until you have one don't knock it.

[Gunnar Jonny]

I think PAX 5 owners will not admit that the Genos 2  is far superior in sound and simplicity and purchased it because of the lateness of the Genos 2 being impatient. This is my view.

Really? 
I bought Pa4 while still had G1, and Pa5 after G2 was released. Regarding what keyboard that sounds better than another relates first and most with personal taste and not to forget if ones hearing is within normal limits.
Korg sounds in fact great, it don't sound as CD'is and polished as I think Yamaha does, the styles are good created, it is not buildt of plastic fantastic made in Chi..., it has a wondeful keybed,  it looks really nice too, and feels solid and steady when handle it if that matters for anyone.   
That said, to get able to compare G2 and Pa5 side by side I have to wait till G2 arrive. It's sceduled today, but who knows what icy slippery roads may cause.   

To have both set up will be great. Tired of one, just turn to the other, or just use both of them in combination. 

[Wim]

Great Answer,
Technology moves on and so must we if we want the latest innovations.

Indeed. But why fall back on an old FM technology. Nowadays there are also other techniques. VST for example. So you buy one time physically a keyboard and than, if you want, expand it with what you want. To avoid making a living for the music dealers, they will build it in for you. By the way, 30 years ago the Technics KN 7000 already had something like that. And this also benefits the current hype of ECO.

Or check out the following links from Mike Sollitaire. It's in German but Google translate helps. For 400 euros you get a lot of Sounds (215). Mike is no Peter Baartmans in playing and presentation, but listen to his samples and who knows, maybe ger Genos 1 owners want to expand their instrument for only 400 euros!!??
part 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0dTfApfxqs&t=940s

part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FAWk_c5xnA

[soryt]

I have the Genos 2 now for a few weeks , and i am not dissapointed because what they improved ( styles,sound & effects) is Superb !
I had the great wish for a Better quality screen , new interface , customizing pages by user ( on my 20 year old Technics it was possible) 
a Metal case like my YC61 , And a bigger sample memory for YEM  , its ridiculus that its memory is smaller and They replaced the very clear and good
Oled sub screen for a lcd screen ( cheaper) and the main screen isnt better than on the Genos ( only adjustable brightnes)
The HDMI out and the Bluetooth interface plus the USB audio interface is a very nice update .
But we will forgive Yamaha after playing with the Genos2 , because the major sound improvement .
Now i hope Yamaha comes with a major update like they did with the Genos (1) , with new (YC) rotary effect and the VCM Drawbars , and the memory expansion .

[chesterkins]

Watching the threads of this topic develop is almost deja vu for me
I remember buying my Tyros then my T2 and then without even hearing it I bought a Tyros 3
Boy was I disappointed!
Not that the T3 was bad  It was I expected MORE
The t3 fell short of my expectations after the big jump in technology from the Tyros to T2
The real satisfaction only came for me in the Tyros 4
Only saying after the big jump from the Tyros to Genos Were we asking too much??

[Dnj]

Great replies pro/con...also how do you new owners like the Keybed feel on G2?

[Amwilburn]

Watching the threads of this topic develop is almost deja vu for me
I remember buying my Tyros then my T2 and then without even hearing it I bought a Tyros 3
Boy was I disappointed!
Not that the T3 was bad  It was I expected MORE
The t3 fell short of my expectations after the big jump in technology from the Tyros to T2
The real satisfaction only came for me in the Tyros 4
Only saying after the big jump from the Tyros to Genos Were we asking too much??

Yup, as I've stated many times:

T1 to T2, HUGE difference
T2 to T3, moderate difference... piano was much better, and added S.Art2 sounds, better drums, everything else was identical
T3 to T4, HUGE difference
T4 to T5, initially very little difference (audio styles, 76 keys aside). It wasn't until people ordered the flash ram that it became apparent how useful YEM would be.
T5 to G1, Huge difference.

G1 to G2? Honestly, on spec, I didn't think there was going to be this much difference. But I've now encountered voice after voice where there really is a completely new sample, and usually the old version of a voice is still in the G2 (but I've started to encounter ones where you can't access the old version on G2 unless you have the directory path from G1).

In other words, prior to the launch, most of my G1 customers asked me (and a couple are on this forum, can vouch I *really* said "don't expect much differrence), and I predicted a small to moderate difference. But as I dig into G2, that's not the case at all. This may actually end up being the *biggest jump* I've seen; currently from what I've discovered it's as least as big a jump a from T1 to T2.


Which is baffling because on paper, it doesn't look like much difference. Heck I've found a *downgrade* pointed out by another thread member: why on earth go from OLED's to LCD's for the sub menu display?? It ends up being too bright indoors (even on the dimmest setting) and slightly washed out as the black isn't true black like OLED's

On *paper*, this is less of a jump than T2 to T3. But from what I've discovered, it's already a much bigger jump than that!

Think we're all (everyone who's been able to try G2) exaggerating? Then go try one yourself. I'm actually shocked, not what I predicted *at all*.

Mark

[travlin-easy]

If I had longer to live, more than just a few months, I would purchase a G2 in a microsecond. Everything I have seen on You Tube and comments from owners, tells me this is likely the most incredible arranger keyboard made, EVER!

Most of the negative comments I have read have come from non-owners. And, more often than not, those negative comments have been over silly things, frequently that have nothing to do with anything relative to performing, or even playing at home.

To my good friend, Charlie (Rattley), congratulations! The last time I was at your home, there was hardly room for another organ or keyboard. I know you will love what you hear, and I sincerely believe you will quickly overcome the EQ problems you have encountered. In my case, I have lost much of my high frequency hearing, therefore, this would not be a problem for me at all.

Merry Christmas everyone,

Gary

[rattley]

Greetings!

Thanks for the kind thoughts as always. I can understand your reasons for not buying a Genos 2. But........Wouldn't it be nice to go out of this world in a blaze of glory playing that G2? 

You mention hearing issues. My hearing was checked annually every year I worked around heavy equipment. Unfortunately it was those years before when no one cared about hearing protection and some employers didn't either. And I have had 2 very severe ear infections this past year. My ear canals were so swollen and blocked I had balance issues. Getting dizzy playing my keyboard or doing anything else is tough to get used too. Hopefully I am over the worst. It does seem my hearing can vary daily. Some of those screeching EQ settings of last week are now sounding better on their own. The body is a marvelous thing, until it isn't!  -charley

[mikf]

The moment G1 is discontinued from upgrades because of essentially of a 5K+ Genos 1 in disguise (as 2), you're being milked, not catered to. Also groomed for the next.

They sucker punched me the first time, with all the ******** of permanent OS upgrades and listening to customers and Genos being an evolving playform... Not good fidekization on pro newcomers, but maybe they don't care and sre avoiding putting a cannibalizing tooth onto the ModX/montage crew....

It's a great keyboard, too grest to be made a forward incompatible outdated non future proof great sounding cash grabbing paper weight, which if Ysmaha keeps at this, it will be.

When we buy any piece of technology, Iphone, tv, car, computer, arranger.... I think we all know at the time what we bought, and that in time a new model will appear which will likely have a few improvements. That is how companies stay in business. Apple is brilliant at it.
It's our free choice to buy it, stick with what we have or buy a competitive product.
To expect that the old model will constantly be upgraded to stay up to date is unrealistic. And to think the new model will be radically different is also unrealistic because with TOTL arranger models that has never happened.
I also note that you have only made 8 posts in the last couple of years... and all of them have the flavor of disgruntled complaints.
Gets old!
Mike

[Floodie]

The Genos1 is a fantastic keyboard, the Genos2 is a fantastic keyboard, because they are the same keyboard. I already have a Genos, so I bought a new home studio instead.

[ton37]

Yes, and the Tyros'ses are also fantastic and they were the same keyboards too ... 

[EileenL]

There is a lot of difference between Genos and Genos2. That is why so many people are buying it.