Critique Genos2..by owners?

[Gunnar Jonny]

Oh, I definitely remember it!

Don't we all? 

[EileenL]

I can remember that when any flagship Yamaha came out from the Tyros range the Piano got well and truly slated Genos2 so far has been the exception as the pianos are tip top.
  Years ago I used  to be invited to Yamaha Milton Keynes with a few other people that were chosen to discus what we would like to see on the next keyboard. The Japanese team would be there as well as Martin Harris. Many of the things  that were possible to do did appear in the next models. When I read now of what some want on these keyboards I can't believe it and I am sorry to say but wonder if they ever just sit down and play for there own enjoyment and relaxation using just what the keyboard has to offer. Of course I like to edit and tweak things but this is all done on my keyboard and gives great fun and satisfaction in doing.
  I have done many gigs and also played for musical shows and dances in my time using just what I had on my trusted keyboard and it never let me down.

[ton37]

Basicly agreed, be it that Yamaha has to invest in what they offers. Not only solve the bugs, but also keep developping the software that are of use for their customers, to a highter standard than this moment. (YEM , Song to Style, Drivers). I mean, a  level  that do justice to the quality (incl. price) of their products 

[mikf]

I noticed a post yesterday which stated that the player had difficulty with a function on Genos 2. What was that function... being able to store changes to the scale tuning in a register memory.
Now I am not doubting that to that person this could be important, but realistically how many people even know about such a function, far less use it, and record it to a registration for frequent call up. Probably the square root of .001. But these musical instruments now have a range of functionality that is way beyond the needs of normal playing for the vast majority. And this creates then a thirst for more and more esoteric functions, and the need not only to test them, but to test them in a variety of unusual combinations. It is a bit of a minefield.
I am not sure what to conclude about this, but I do know that any decent keyboard player can make great music from all of these recent models, and the audience will seldom notice the  difference.
Mike

[Oldden]

Not saying that Genos 2 is not a great keyboard, but what was hopped for and what was delivered are so far apart that there is bound to be some dissatisfaction. Hopefully it will get some upgrades to improve things.

[ton37]

What improvements do you hope on, @Oldden?

[Oldden]

Just read the comments from people who are not happy with it as it is now. I'm happy with my Genos 1 and for me the advantages of me changing to Genos 2 are not worth the large cost involved.. But I do admit that the upgrades to my Genos 1 certainly improved it, hopefully the same will happen to Genos 2 and then I might consider changing. It's still early days as it was for my keyboard when it first came out.

[musicman01]

Hello,
My opinion on this is simple, Genos 2 is not the improvement most here expected, be honest with yourself!!
The people who bought one will be happy with mixed feelings.
Yamaha is doing the same thing just like they did with Tyros 1...until Tyros 5 it's that simple!
A little more each time and people will buy!
But Yamaha!! don't forget that people are getting smarter!
With Genos 2, Yamaha should have first and foremost tackled the organ section instead of an FM section, an Organ Leslie that looks more like a coffee grinder!!
No seamless transition, still PVC box with a keyboard that is almost the same as an €800 Medelli!
I could make a whole list here!!!
Couldn't have been better after 6 years!!
And that for 5000k!
Sooner or later you will wake up and remember what is written here!
Shame on you Yamaha!!!!

[Gunnar Jonny]

But Yamaha!! don't forget that people are getting smarter!

Yeah,
and don't forget, we also get older, and all that sudden the aged TOTL Arranger customers are gone.      

[EileenL]

Musicman most people here are pleased with Genos2. If you want to bash Yamaha then tell them not us. Come to that not many people use the organ sounds that much that I know of.

[ton37]

I'v not a single problem with fair critique, but here is the subject= 'critique Genos2 ... by owners'.

[BogdanH]

...most people here are pleased with Genos2. If you want to bash Yamaha then tell them not us. ...

I see this as an open forum and not a fan club. A place where anyone can get constructive opinions from both sides and make his/her own conclusions.

Bogdan

[Oldden]

Sorry Eileen, but I like the organ sounds. Had a few Hammonds in the past going back to, if my memory hasn't  failed me a second hand T101 back in the 70's plus a few others. Yes, the Genos doesn't sound the same. You need a big speaker with a belt driven rotating baffle to get close but I enjoy what I've got in my Genos1 . Enjoy your genos2, I might after a couple of updates get one.

[musicman01]

Musicman most people here are pleased with Genos2. If you want to bash Yamaha then tell them not us. Come to that not many people use the organ sounds that much that I know of.

Dear Eileen,
I wish people who are satisfied with Genos2 a lot of fun!!
I'm not bashing Yamaha at all just telling the honest truth!
My opinion is that there is almost no difference between GN 1&2 and certainly not for the very high price of 5000k, which is impossible to defend!!!
I'm sure many will share my opinion!!
I bought a Genos in November 2017 and sold it 5 weeks ago to possibly move to GN 2.
For me, the performance by P. Baartmans was almost the same as on Genos 6 years ago!
I tested Genos 2 at a local dealer and my disappointment was very great! If a new model no longer has anything to offer you but "Revelation Reverb, Ambient Drums, FM/DX7 section, LEDs around buttons and sliders, some extra styles".
No more digital output, GN2 15GB HD GN1 58GB HD, still only 128 polyphony for factory voices??
The improved pianos will not justify it either, with some knowledge of sound editing in Genos 1 the difference will be very small!
Fortunately, I still have a Pa5x where the options are just as good and sound & style editing goes much further, good Drawbars, Seamless Transition, Dual style player, tilting screen, full aluminum housing, high-quality keyboard (fatar).
All things that Genos 2 lacks for the price of 5000k!!
If I buy another Genos it will be a second hand GN1 again, because everyone wants to get rid of their hard-earned money!!!!
Today, 34 units were offered for sale on the second-hand sites Belgium and the Netherlands together.

[ton37]

It's a lot of money, of course. But you have to put it in perspective.
A calculation: In the EU the G2 costs €4990. If you don't trade anything in, some will be deducted from it, say €4750. The dealer has to pay 21% to the government, so the net price for the dealer is €3750!!

A calculation example:
You now buy a used G1 for € 2700? In 3 years it will be 10 years old, what will the street value be then (€1000,-) ??!
A G2 might still be worth approximately €3,700 in 3 years?
A depreciation of more than €1000 on a G2 over the next 3 years?
A depreciation of €1500/2000 on a G1 over the next 3 years?

The depreciation on the G1 has not been taken into account because there has already been a period of 6/7 years. Then the street price for a used one is not too bad (for the seller).

[BogdanH]

hmm.. when I buy new keyboard I never calculate how much money I might lose over the time.. because in that case I wouldn't buy next keyboard at all. And at the end, no matter how good when new, every keyboard becomes old (outdated) sooner or later.

Bogdan

[ton37]

Mathematics is never been my cup of tea. But the 'huge' price of the G2 is frequently a point of critique. But nowadays, there are no giveaways anymore. It was only a attemp to put it in perspective. That's all 

[mikf]

Yeah,
and don't forget, we also get older, and all that sudden the aged TOTL Arranger customers are gone.      

Interesting .... When the current old people die off, that's going to be the end of old people. Wish I was one of these younger people who are never going to get old.
Mike

[EileenL]

You are as old as you feel and every one has to die so why not do it enjoying the latest keyboards. There are no pockets in shrouds. I never feel I have lost money on any keyboard I have part exchanged because I have had so much fun and enjoyment
with them and so have the people I have played for. To most people Genos 2 has a much better sound quality to it and the audio recordings do not need any editing through various programmes they just sound so clear.

[Christophermoment]

Interesting .... When the current old people die off, that's going to be the end of old people. Wish I was one of these younger people who are never going to get old.
Mike

True, some people don't seem to understand how aging works.  They must have missed that class at school.

[GrannyRocks]

I also have noticed a certain disparagement of people who like the Genos, and the suggestion is that we like it because of our age. From our perspective, that's absurd. We are still here, thinking, feeling, acting and trying to do something positive with music. That would be like us putting down others who like other instruments because they are young. Age has nothing to do with it. Sound does. Pianos have been around for hundreds of years, and I love the piano not because of my age, but because of the sound and feel of it. Other people love synths and drum kits and all of that. Would you want me to put you down for that? I wish we could just get off this back and forth about Genos2. Some people love it and some don't. If you don't, don't buy it. If you do, buy it if you can. We are all closer to death than we like to think, and in the overall scheme of things, our world is in serious trouble, and we should all come together to try to use our lives and our music to create a better world, whatever we are playing.

[Gunnar Jonny]

Interesting .... When the current old people die off, that's going to be the end of old people. Wish I was one of these younger people who are never going to get old.
Mike

Sorry for my bad english, what I tried to express was that the majority of arranger users / buyers  is elderly people, and when that generation pass, what about, or will there still be any sales market for AutoCompArrangers? 

[mikf]

Yes, I fully understand your point. But it makes no sense.  Because there is a never ending supply of old people .....they are called young people. They will get older, wish they had learned to play, discover arrangers, have the time and disposable income.... and just like the current crop they will be the main market for arranger manufacturers. And that market is growing all the time because the population is growing, living longer, and is wealthier. That's why we keep building more and more care homes, sheltered housing, retirement communities ........people aging is lucrative business.

[ton37]

Funny discussion  Imagine: if all current youngsters have reached the age of 12 years, the teachers on the primary school are unemployed.
I guess GJ means the current generation of 'baby boomers'??

Same logica: 'if your mother can't get children, you can't have them too'

Back to  topic ..

[Divemaster]

I also have noticed a certain disparagement of people who like the Genos, and the suggestion is that we like it because of our age. From our perspective, that's absurd. We are still here, thinking, feeling, acting and trying to do something positive with music. That would be like us putting down others who like other instruments because they are young. Age has nothing to do with it. Sound does. Pianos have been around for hundreds of years, and I love the piano not because of my age, but because of the sound and feel of it. Other people love synths and drum kits and all of that. Would you want me to put you down for that? I wish we could just get off this back and forth about Genos2. Some people love it anGd some don't. If you don't, don't buy it. If you do, buy it if you can. We are all closer to death than we like to think, and in the overall scheme of things, our world is in serious trouble, and we should all come together to try to use our lives and our music to create a better world, whatever we are playing.

Personally, I think that the one word that's been lacking in this whole thread has been CHOICE.
Not everybody likes the same thing. So RESPECT that.

So Granny Rocks you get the Gold Star because you've nailed it.

Like it or not, we will all get older, and as we get older, we absorb, literally, a lifetimes knowledge.
Some of that knowledge is useful, so we store it and absorb it.
Some, not so much. So although we mostly discard it, we put it on the back burner so to speak, but it still resides within our memory. We choose what we do with it.

So apply that to this thread.
I said, long before Genos 2 was launched, that it wouldn't interest me. Why?
Because I simply didn't have enough information about it. It was all too secretive.
Too little information to make an educated CHOICE. Yamaha dragged it out for far too long
And of course, as I and others half expected, the cracks are appearing.
Sorry but for £5,000  (UK) that's completely unacceptable.
For a BETA version? Guinea pigs spring to mind.

So my trusty SX-700 suits me for my day to day, level of musical knowledge. But I'm still learning, and enjoying the experience.

It doesn't mean that as a couple of members have suggested about the G2
That I'm jealous.................... not in the slightest
That I can't afford it.............. If I wanted one I could buy one right now
That those of us who haven't got a G2 are 'missing out'....... On what?

None of those statements are relevant or true. But they are divisive.
It's a shame.... On these forums.......Respect other people's CHOICES
It's a shame that this sort of one upmanship and swanky smugness with owning the G2 has crept into these forums. Dear oh dear.... Get a grip.
So you bought a G2..... Great.... Now find someone who cares.. .

And a lesson here:
Don't assume that everyone is totally besotted with, and 'in love with Yamaha'.
Remember the memories you store in your brain. Yes?
Like the recent warranty fiasco I had with them.
They didn't want to know!
And that's why I bought myself a Korg.... Not a G2.
Look after your customer...
And they didn't, and I have a long memory.



8 weeks ago, to the day, completely out of the blue, I was rushed to hospital, checked out, rushed to another hospital, operated on as an emergency and sent to Intensive care.
So don't EVER assume that you'll even be here tomorrow.  We ALL die. Respect the time you are here. Every single day is a gift. Nobody owns the future.

Buy what you like. Play what you like, and enjoy playing, and be kind to one another.
PLAY YOUR KEYBOARD.  Enjoy making music. But above all. Respect other people's CHOICE.

Keith

[Hawklord]

Yeah,
and don't forget, we also get older, and all that sudden the aged TOTL Arranger customers are gone.      

I personally think that there is some truth in this statement as the "younger" generation will create/play their music on soft synths, PC's, mobile phones, tablets etc using what is to me quite frightening the power of AI software that is accessible right now. The art of sitting down at a keyboard and composing will be lost.

[Divemaster]

I think you're right to some extent.

I'm giving a family member one of these for Christmas.

https://roli.com/products/seaboard/rise2?region=uk&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA1MCrBhAoEiwAC2d64YKnoR7uhtwpRMNuu__hXsgjWxl3noo18QuU9njlarRjNs83ziwBjhoCnEwQAvD_BwE

She is 15, and has Cerebral palsy  but is hugely creative. I think she is in for a lot of fun and enjoyment.

I think creativity is in everybody.

[Gunnar Jonny]

I personally think that there is some truth in this statement as the "younger" generation will create/play their music on soft synths, PC's, mobile phones, tablets etc using what is to me quite frightening the power of AI software that is accessible right now. The art of sitting down at a keyboard and composing will be lost.

But, here we also can see that the young ones want to learn how to play Piano, Guitar, Brass instruments and other acustic instruments. Thats a good thing. Whatever happens to arranger keyboards, if they almost disapear like home organs did, the music will live! 

[chesterkins]

I have always come to the party late
Buying my Tyros's(all of them) and my Genos about 3 years after they have been launched
So when I went to my local dealer to listen to the new Genos 2 I went in as a neutral person 
Its true the immediate sound is impressive  especially some of the newer age styles and voices BUT i had trouble distinguishing the ambient drums in some places and the same for the style control  Must admit the FM sound is great for those who love the 80' s   All in all if I still had my Tyros5  I would buy one
AS it is I am going into my third year with my Genos I will be enjoying taking the G2 styles ramping up the reverb, replacing the drums inserting my own voice choice and getting quite close to the sound I heard  I am sure in 2 years time I will be trading in my arranger for a 2nd hand G2 as I have done in the past

[Hawklord]

Your are correct, music in some form or another will live with us and be in us forever (unless it gets cancelled  ).
Taking my family as an example, my grandparents had a piano, my father had a piano and then an organ when I lived at home and he now has my Tyros 2 when I upgraded to Tyros 5. I have had keyboards since before our children were born so they have always been around them but the interest didn't pass on as they had more exciting things (to them) such as a Playstation and tv in their bedrooms, so the last arranger buyer in my family is 63 year old me. Arrangers as we know them will ultimately become extinct.
@Divemaster - fantastic gift and I am sure that she will get great enjoyment from it.