Critique Genos2..by owners?

[guitpic1]

I'm curious as to who owns Genos2 that is critiquing the keyboard?  Seems like a lot of evaluations could be coming from folks that have never played one...yes? No?

[mikf]

But even if they don't own one, the criticism may still be fair because they might be commenting on the specs, or lack of change to the specs. For example you don't need to own one to know the Leslie effect and or the seamless switching is unchanged, or that the screen doesn't tilt, or the printing on the knobs is the same. Those are obvious from specs and reports, and some of those things can be dealbreakers for some people.
Mike

[ton37]

In addition: if all goes well you know what you are buying! You weighed the advantages against the disadvantages and then made the choice.
If you haven't done this thoroughly, you are to blame!

I would certainly criticize 'hidden' flaws or 'lack' of promised features. You can expect that there will be software 'bugs' again, but Yamaha will have to work on solving them. If they don't, you will end up in a producer-consumer legal/practical 'battle', which will not be a desirable situation for a producer. Certainly not in the beginning.

Those who do not want to buy that model have their own wishes or requirements, or had too high expectations. That is a normal and sensible reaction: the new model simply does not meet their personal preferences. That 'criticism' should often be seen as a 'wishlist' for a Genos3 (or any other model/brand)? The story continues... 

(In fact, there is hardly any difference in the (note!) practical usage options between the Genos(1) and Genos2. Those who use the Genos(1/2) for the first time will have a much greater 'usage' experience.)

[Des O]

Some bitter comments on another forum YM over G2.

[Christophermoment]

I'm curious as to who owns Genos2 that is critiquing the keyboard?  Seems like a lot of evaluations could be coming from folks that have never played one...yes? No?

Indeed, a lot of the people don't even have a Genos 1 to make a comparison from. Of course you get complaints from disgruntled people just because they can't afford the price. Don't recall Yamaha making a lot of promises that they did not deliver on. 

[ton37]

Some bitter comments on another forum YM over G2.

Mm.. it's more like letting off steam because someone (Mr. Yamaha) hasn't made the super-keyboard what has been asked on every forum for 7 years! So after that long period of mental freewheeling you are now suddenly woken up to reality. Has to do with processing disappointments. Oh well, there are worse things... If you love tutorials: this one might help: How to Let Go of Your Expectations: A 7-Step Guide  with relaxing music from the Genos2

[GrannyRocks]

It is sad to me that there are so many negative commentaries from people who have not tried it yet. But we live in an era of anger in general. I can understand being disappointed in something not delivered, but then we let go of those expectations and see what's there and if we want it for what it is. No different from a relationship. They are never what we want, but then we need to see if we want THEM, not our fantasy. Grin.

[DerekA]

Don't recall Yamaha making a lot of promises that they did not deliver on. 

You are spot on there.

Of course G2 is a fantastic instrument. Anyone buying new today (and who can afford it) would obviously choose G2 over G1. Any "disappointments" that people feel are due to very unrealistic expectations amongst some potential customers.

(BTW I might be one of them when it comes to the FM engine .... which I feel they have implemented in a very constrained way)

[Wim]

I think there are people who are negative. After all the demos I've seen on the internet and even attended 2 of them myself with Peter Baartmans, I have to say that I too have serious doubts about trading in my Genos for the Genos2. It's a keyboard. This means that most people have chosen a keyboard because their left hand lacks many technical skills. Then shout Hosanna over the 3 new piano sounds and the DX sounds!! Watch Peter play with these beautiful voices. Then see if you can do this too. If so, I would consider buying a CVP piano. But if the price drops in a while and reviews appear on this forum from very enthusiastic (hobby) players, it might be worth considering purchasing the Genos2.

[Wim]

Indeed, a lot of the people don't even have a Genos 1 to make a comparison from. Of course you get complaints from disgruntled people just because they can't afford the price. Don't recall Yamaha making a lot of promises that they did not deliver on. 

Yamaha did not made any promises. And I have a Genos1. But for me attended at demos with Peter Baartmans, and I have seen him given more enthousiastic demos, and indeed considering the price I still doubt if it is worth changing. And that can also be the case for more people.  Maybe I must wait for winning the end of year lottery . So don't blame other people who cannot afford the price. I for sure can afford it to buy a lot,  people don't email me for financial help please,
But just to go along with the hype???
rgds
And let us both enjoy our instrument.
Wim

[Danny1972]

It is sad to me that there are so many negative commentaries from people who have not tried it yet. But we live in an era of anger in general. I can understand being disappointed in something not delivered, but then we let go of those expectations and see what's there and if we want it for what it is. No different from a relationship. They are never what we want, but then we need to see if we want THEM, not our fantasy. Grin.

Hello GrannyRocks,

I think we have to expect that, and even respect that. All opinions are valid if the points made are valid and make sense. Sometimes it can even be a bit beneficial, I am always up to learning new things every day. The most important thing is that you are enjoying your new Genos2 and that it's everything you wanted it to be and more! Whatever the comments you read say, it won't make a difference to the instrument you bought, it won't make Genos2 better or worse, it's just about how you feel and your experience that matters. That is how I will be looking at it once I get my own Genos2. 

[GrannyRocks]

Hello GrannyRocks,

I think we have to expect that, and even respect that. All opinions are valid if the points made are valid and make sense. Sometimes it can even be a bit beneficial, I am always up to learning new things every day. The most important thing is that you are enjoying your new Genos2 and that it's everything you wanted it to be and more! Whatever the comments you read say, it won't make a difference to the instrument you bought, it won't make Genos2 better or worse, it's just about how you feel and your experience that matters. That is how I will be looking at it once I get my own Genos2. 

Yes, I agree. There are things I wanted it to be, too, that it is not. But I feel grateful for what it is. I have bought many keyboards searching for the sounds, especially the acoustic instruments, that Genos has. And I am not happy with them, even though they may have other qualities I like. So back to Genos and happy for the improvements that were made. I agree that we can learn something from all kinds of people, but when people's comments are vitriolic, it makes me wonder what is going on within them that they have to be so shaming or degrading to others. Even if you are criticizing Yamaha, there are people there who put effort into this. And there are people who like the keyboard who are indirectly being attacked. At least those are my thoughts. Thanks for sharing yours.

[Dkjos]

As I work thru moving Registries from G1 to G2 I'm finding that a fair number of Styles from G1 aren't on the G2 or it's Legacy registries.

[Gunnar Jonny]

As I work thru moving Registries from G1 to G2 I'm finding that a fair number of Styles from G1 aren't on the G2 or it's Legacy registries.

Maybe that's to find in the Genos Complete addon pack for G2?
Seem to remember that was said in the presentation video.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

To me the only downer is the constraints on the DXfm
I do not want to program sounds, just want to load the DX sound and enhance.
I cannot see Yamaha making a load of free packs for it as there are a ton of sounds for the DX7 and they do not take up a lot of room.
A   SY*** file which the DX 7 uses surely is an information file. Yamaha got them into a pack somehow. We just have to find out how.

[Christophermoment]

Yamaha did not made any promises. And I have a Genos1. But for me attended at demos with Peter Baartmans, and I have seen him given more enthousiastic demos, and indeed considering the price I still doubt if it is worth changing. And that can also be the case for more people.  Maybe I must wait for winning the end of year lottery . So don't blame other people who cannot afford the price. I for sure can afford it to buy a lot,  people don't email me for financial help please,
But just to go along with the hype???
rgds
And let us both enjoy our instrument.
Wim

Hi Wim, maybe it's a language thing.  I did not blame anyone for not being able to afford the Genos2. I did state a valid reason as to why (some) people will make negative comments about a product. This is not a new eye popping revelation by the way! It has been observed over a number of years, some people get jealous and make negative comments because they can't afford to purchase the item they want. You imply that I'm willing to go along with the hype, not at all, but I wont make silly negative comments just to get attention either. And of course, I do really hope that you enjoy your instrument, I enjoy mine every day. 

[Lefty]

It is sad to me that there are so many negative commentaries from people who have not tried it yet.

It is sad to me that there are so many positive commentaries from people who have not tried it yet. 

To be fair, why is it OK to post positive comments without trying the keyboard, but not negative comments?

I can tell from the specifications and the price that I won't be purchasing one. I don't need to try one to know that. Now, if they had a 76 or 88 hammer action version, I might be looking for one to try.

Best Regards,
  Craig

[GrannyRocks]

It is sad to me that there are so many positive commentaries from people who have not tried it yet. 

To be fair, why is it OK to post positive comments without trying the keyboard, but not negative comments?

I can tell from the specifications and the price that I won't be purchasing one. I don't need to try one to know that. Now, if they had a 76 or 88 hammer action version, I might be looking for one to try.

Best Regards,
  Craig

That's a valid point, and both are true.

[pjd]

Well, we had five plus years to discuss Genos1 pro and con. Personally, I'm happy with it and will stick with it. It's a fine instrument.

However, we did have five years to play it and, for better or for worse, remark about it in the Forum. The Yamaha IdeaScale site is a good channel for comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, it has the side-effect of raising people's expectations about Genos++, now known as Genos2.

It's OK to respectfully state criticism, but hope that we move on without relitigating any shortcomings. That stuff gets old in short order.

I wish everyone a good trip on the Genos2 train!   

-- pj

[Lefty]

It's OK to respectfully state criticism, but hope that we move on without relitigating any shortcomings. That stuff gets old in short order.

PJ, if you limit criticism, but leave praise unfettered, won't that leave forum members with a pollyanna view of a product?  Folks who join the board next year who are considering a G2 would only see the positives about the keyboard, since any shortcomings would have already been discussed.

What the moderators SHOULD remove are uninformed opinions!    Consider the time that would save us, since there would be so few posts left to read. 

Respectfully, and with a bit of humor,
   Craig

[Duffy]

Well, we had five plus years to discuss Genos1 pro and con. Personally, I'm happy with it and will stick with it. It's a fine instrument.

However, we did have five years to play it and, for better or for worse, remark about it in the Forum. The Yamaha IdeaScale site is a good channel for comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, it has the side-effect of raising people's expectations about Genos++, now known as Genos2.

It's OK to respectfully state criticism, but hope that we move on without relitigating any shortcomings. That stuff gets old in short order.

I wish everyone a good trip on the Genos2 train!   

-- pj

I disagree.  Everything in the world gets judged and either praised or criticised, by people who bought them and people who test them etc.
It's just the same as all the new car road tests which most people read before buying a car,  otherwise how are people going to know what to base their judgement on.
I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions when a new board arrives and I'm sure most others do.  Those opinions would be useless if only the positives were allowed or stated.

[soundphase]

PJ, if you limit criticism, but leave praise unfettered, won't that leave forum members with a pollyanna view of a product?  Folks who join the board next year who are considering a G2 would only see the positives about the keyboard, since any shortcomings would have already been discussed.

What the moderators SHOULD remove are uninformed opinions!    Consider the time that would save us, since there would be so few posts left to read. 

Respectfully, and with a bit of humor,
   Craig

Craig, I didn't want to thank you, I wanted to answer. I pushed "Say thanks" and was not able to remove it. :-)

You can read specifications and shouldn't participate to forum, if you only want facts.
I enjoy reading comments from experienced people who are able to interpret and extrapolate information beyond the facts.

I consider FM integration as very positive as I play all kinds of styles. I understand that it's not enough for people that play Classical, 1920->60's songs.
I consider memory amount as very negative as it currently seems there is no evolution (6 years later)
I regret SSS is not present.

Is Genos2 good or bad? I don't care. It could have been better, it could have been worse.
I ordered a Genos2 because it's my main hobby, and buying a Genos2 partly justifies why I work every day.

[EileenL]

The  IdeaScale site was just full of what was written on here exact copies so for me no use at all. It was obvious that most of those requests would be a non starter. I am truly amazes at what some asked for and I would imagine Yamaha were to.

[Lefty]

Craig, I didn't want to thank you, I wanted to answer. I pushed "Say thanks" and was not able to remove it. :-)

You can read specifications and shouldn't participate to forum, if you only want facts.
I enjoy reading comments from experienced people who are able to interpret and extrapolate information beyond the facts.

Hi Soundphase.  Forums are text-only, and oftentimes, attempts at humor or sarcasm don't translate well.  I put an eye-roll and a grin amongst the text to show folks that what I was saying wasn't intended as a serious comment, but was in fact sarcasm.  I think it did not come across that way to you.  If you re-read my post with this in mind, I'm sure you'll find we are in complete agreement!

Best Regards,
   Craig

[pjd]

PJ, if you limit criticism, ...

Hi Craig --

I don't seek to limit criticism. Lord knows, I can be pretty darned critical (and have been).

However, in the last N years, I've read discussions that churn over the same old stuff ad infinitum. Yeah, I know how to ignore messages and don't bother to read them. I suspect people ignore my nerdier posts and they are free to do so.   

Ad infinitum churn is not productive and tends to unnecessarily sour people. I've already seen one guy on another forum bail on Genos2 because "PJD sez." I think Genos2 is a fine instrument, but people tend to focus on the negatives. Human nature.

As long as discussion is respectful and productive, I'm all for it.

Hope that clarifies a bit. Peace to all; life is too short -- pj

[GrannyRocks]

There is so much anger and hate in the world, I turn to music to nourish my soul and the souls of others. I come to this forum to share and to gain wisdom and insight as to how to use the Genos for that purpose. One important piece of information is whether or not to buy yet another expensive piece of equipment, and so it is very important to hear objective commentary from knowledgeable people, who have information to share. That could save me from making a terrible mistake. It is the anger and shaming of Yamaha that started to get to me, not just on this forum, but all over the internet. I feel the rage. Don't you? People have lots of reasons to be angry these days, and many of them are good reasons. But I pray we can come together for the common good, and I like to feel that on a forum of people who come together because we all love music.

[AndrewKeyz]

You are spot on there.

Of course G2 is a fantastic instrument. Anyone buying new today (and who can afford it) would obviously choose G2 over G1. Any "disappointments" that people feel are due to very unrealistic expectations amongst some potential customers.

(BTW I might be one of them when it comes to the FM engine .... which I feel they have implemented in a very constrained way)

I don't think you are being objective and instead, are seeing things through rose tinted glasses.

Many shops are still selling a Genos 1 new close to £3000.
I think even a billionaire would probably question well what can the £5000 version do more and I'm I going to use that?
The keyboards look almost exactly the same.

The fact people who have criticisms are straight away lumped as "well you just had unrealistic expectations or you are bitter or you probably can't afford the upgrade" is frankly awful.

I said it before here; had the Genos 2 at least been in white I probably would have owned it by now. Even if the rest had been exactly the same.
However the lack of some physical or operational change after 6 years has completely made me disinterested and unmotivated to continue with these arrangers for now.
This is totally not a financial matter for me. It is more about reflecting do I want to stick to what I was doing in 2017 in a very similar way or do something else.
And I'm not bitter either. I realise Tyros releases also did not change much between versions. But I never owned one of those and the timespan between releases was much less also.

It is what it is.

[GrannyRocks]

I don't think you are being objective and instead, are seeing things through rose tinted glasses.

Many shops are still selling a Genos 1 new close to £3000.
I think even a billionaire would probably question well what can the £5000 version do more and I'm I going to use that?
The keyboards look almost exactly the same.

The fact people who have criticisms are straight away lumped as "well you just had unrealistic expectations or you are bitter or you probably can't afford the upgrade" is frankly awful.

I said it before here; had the Genos 2 at least been in white I probably would have owned it by now. Even if the rest had been exactly the same.
However the lack of some physical or operational change after 6 years has completely made me disinterested and unmotivated to continue with these arrangers for now.
This is totally not a financial matter for me. It is more about reflecting do I want to stick to what I was doing in 2017 in a very similar way or do something else.
And I'm not bitter either. I realise Tyros releases also did not change much between versions. But I never owned one of those and the timespan between releases was much less also.

It is what it is.

You have a good there. Who wants to do the same thing over and over? Smile. I didn't have a Genos anymore, so it was an easy decision. On the other hand, I keep playing the piano and creating new music every day, and I hope to do the same with the Genos. Consider it an instrument and see what more I can do with it. No criticism or opposition intended here.

[ton37]

There is so much anger and hate in the world, I turn to music to nourish my soul and the souls of others. I come to this forum to share and to gain wisdom and insight as to how to use the Genos for that purpose. One important piece of information is whether or not to buy yet another expensive piece of equipment, and so it is very important to hear objective commentary from knowledgeable people, who have information to share. That could save me from making a terrible mistake. It is the anger and shaming of Yamaha that started to get to me, not just on this forum, but all over the internet. I feel the rage. Don't you? People have lots of reasons to be angry these days, and many of them are good reasons. But I pray we can come together for the common good, and I like to feel that on a forum of people who come together because we all love music.

"Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in this world, but has not solved one yet. Love did"

[GrannyRocks]

Yes, indeed.