Genos 2 will be like a CVP 909?

[jayfield]

Im going out tonight to hear a Yamaha rep, Craig Knutson demo the CVP 909
Ive heard a rumour that the Genos 2 will be very close to this board.
Same operating system and sounds. I will ask him and try to glean some info on the Genos 2
They are taking orders there tonight as well. Will keep you posted.

[mikf]

While the CVP has many upsides, the arranger capabilities always lag the TOTL arrangers. The 909 has already been around for a while and there has never been any report of advanced arranger features, ie more advanced than the current Genos. So I wouldn't put much weight on this rumor.
Mike

[DerekA]

I think this is probably true, but then again that's because I think the Genos 2 will be very close to the Genos 1.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Is there going to be  a Friday Teaser??

[musicman100]

Usually the cvp follow a few later with what the tyros/genos have on them.

For example the CVP range only the new 909 have the  Super Articulation2 voices but only 36 as oppsed to 75 on the genos.

So that is 5 years after the genos had them!!

[andyg]

So that is 5 years after the genos had them!!

And almost 10 years after SA2 voices first appeared on the Tyros 5!

[Yama]

I always wondered what the main differences, in terms of "arranger capability", are between Genos and CVP 809 (909).

- lower number of voices (SA)/et?
- Sampler?
- Effects?

It would be helpful if anyone can shine light on this!

[Whitecolin11]

the cvp809 and 909 are 99% the same, a different piano sample slightly different key bed chord looper facility the main difference is price you can now get a boxed 809 for 6k nearly 3k short of the 909 in my opinion a waste of money.
for the record a friend of mine has a 809 i had the 709 and was really disappointed on what you had to pay for the upgrade.
any keyboard with the 9 at the end has a great speaker system.so they all sound good
Yamaha has been losing money on arranger keyboards they make much more for the furniture type cvp

[mikf]

I think the big differences between CVP and Genos are -
- Cannot load samples
- No aftertouch
- No multipads
Of course there are also major differences the other way round, Genos has no 88 key version, no weighted keyboard, no built in sound system.
The big change from CVP809 to 909, was to incorporate some of the improved voices that were already on Genos, like REVO drums, additional SA voices, and of course the use of those to improve styles. Whether you think those worth the additional money or not is  a personal choice. But I think Yamaha does not produce new models mainly to get people to upgrade from the current one. It's principally to remain competitive for the completely new buyer, or someone upgrading from much older models. I have a 605 in and only now might be thinking that an upgrade to 905 or even 909 might be worthwhile.
As a general point, one of the things I have noticed is that most of the requests and hopes listed on the forum by existing owners for improvements on the next keyboard model are what I would call "feature based". But Yamaha nearly always pushes improved voice/styles as their main new feature. I think that Yamaha believes that  'great sound' is really what sells in the showroom.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

The 909 is nothing special. The voices are no better than the current Genos. It has 88 keys and three pedals but at double the price ($12,000 CDN), I wouldn't be interested.

[mikf]

Lee- purely as an arranger/workstation that is true, but you really can't compare them. The CVP has a very different target market. Just as you would not change to a CVP, some people - myself included- will never move from CVP to a Genos2 no matter what features it has.
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Some people like the Genos and some want G Plan furniture
Lee will love that line!!!

[Lee Batchelor]

Some people like the Genos and some want G Plan furniture
Lee will love that line!!!

🤣!

[Lee Batchelor]

Lee- purely as an arranger/workstation that is true, but you really can't compare them. The CVP has a very different target market. Just as you would not change to a CVP, some people - myself included- will never move from CVP to a Genos2 no matter what features it has.
Mike

Fully agreed, Mike but someone mentioned that most of the 909 sounds and OS were based on the Genos 2. If so, there's no evidence of this and if it is true, the Genos 2 will be a huge let down - which I doubt. I think it will be a huge improvement 👍.

[mikf]

John
I doubt they know what G plan furniture is in Canada, certainly not in the USA
And I definitely don't have a CVP because it's a great piece of furniture, because it's probably the worst looking piece of furniture in my house. Ok but utilitarian. But then it doesn't look like lab equipment either. And it almost plays like a real piano, and while it doesn't have every Genos feature, it has every arranger feature I really need.
But I think the very latest voices are better in Genos, which is why I am considering looking carefully at the 909, which has most of them. Price for one is ok, but I have one in my other house as well, so if I really liked it that might mean buying two, ......then that price tag gets to be a bit of an ouch!
And of course maybe Genos 2 could be a huge leap, and then I would think, let's wait for the next CVP model, which might be 'more Genos2 like'.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Mike, thanks for mentioning to John that we North Americans likley have no clue what G plan furniture is. I admit, I have no idea what John was talking about. I just wanted to be polite 🤣. Sorry John 🙃.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Imagine the 1970's in the Uk.
We had G Plan furniture, all the rage way back then and very collectable now as it was qualitiy.

Imagine this.  A record deck and radio  which equals the Genos
Now  Imagine this.  A record deck and radio in a wooden sideboard   called a Sterogram which equals the 909     
That is how i can explain the difference if i was in the 1970's!!!        

All the Best
John

[jayfield]

I heard Craig Knudsen demo the 909 last night. He's on you tube lots and did a great presentation. He told me he has played the Genos 2 prototype and loved it. I also put a down p on my Genos 2
Price is between 7300-7900 Canadian scoots. The GM from our main Vancouver Yamaha store said the Genos 2 has great new samples.  That's all I could get. Still pretty tight lipped. Dyein to hear and see this new board

Looks like I'm gonna get the 2nd G2 in Canada because apparently the president of Yam Canada has dibs on the first one

[rodrigo.b]

Im going out tonight to hear a Yamaha rep, Craig Knutson demo the CVP 909
Ive heard a rumour that the Genos 2 will be very close to this board.
Same operating system and sounds. I will ask him and try to glean some info on the Genos 2
They are taking orders there tonight as well. Will keep you posted.

The CVP 909 is identical to the CVP 809, so I don't think so.

[mikf]

Lee
John does tend to get a bit 'local'.
Actually G plan peak was really 1950s into early 60s, not 70s. It was a range of furniture in the UK designed to be stylish and decent quality at a not too low, but reasonable price, mainly clean lines and finished in teak. It was accompanied by a brilliant marketing campaign and took off big time because it was affordable, stood up to normal life, and the small company making it grew exponentially.
Initially there was some kudos for ordinary people in owning GPlan, but it then spawned lots of cheap look-alikes and by mid 60s everyone had that look it all over the house. I am not keen on it because it's what my mother and everyone in my street had. Nowadays it's become fashionable again amongst younger people because it has a vintage 50s look.
My style in furniture is more Armando Rho. I have collected a lot of that. Almost unbelievable there are still craftsmen around (albeit in Italy) who can do that level of museum quality cabinet and upholstery work.
I am really way off subject now - what the heck, it's raining here and a slow day!
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for that, Mike ! Now I'm on the same page with John.

[Lee Batchelor]

Looks like I'm gonna get the 2nd G2 in Canada because apparently the president of Yam Canada has dibs on the first one.

And that is totally wrong!! While waiting for my Genos back 6 years ago, I had the Ontario rep laugh and flaunt at me on the phone how she "just loved her new Genos that she got three weeks ago." I had to wait another five weeks for mine. I wonder if she paid the same $5,000 for hers that I did for mine. If the president of Yamaha is pulling this same stunt, then he's no better than the condescending Ontario rep (I have another word for her but not here) who should have been fired for her attitude to a loyal customer. I can see where the corporate apple doesn't fall far from the tree. On the other hand, perhaps Jayfield is saying this tongue in cheek .

[pjd]

As a general point, one of the things I have noticed is that most of the requests and hopes listed on the forum by existing owners for improvements on the next keyboard model are what I would call "feature based". But Yamaha nearly always pushes improved voice/styles as their main new feature. I think that Yamaha believes that  'great sound' is really what sells in the showroom.
Mike

Mike made a number of good points. Sorry to be the last person to wake up today... 

The number of voices and styles are easy "check-off" criteria that a customer can use to evaluate models. More voices, more styles? It must be better!!! 

The Clavinovas (CLP, CSP, CVP) have their own target customers. I've got a CSP-170 on order and that is another take on the CVP concept. No ugly front panel, but the player needs to access almost everything through the Smart Pianist app. The big decider for me is needing a good digital piano that will help me play the acoustic grand at church (when necessary).

BTW, recent Yamaha financial filings and earnings call indicate a significant slow-down in digital piano sales (especially entry-level). The Chinese market is suffering the worst. Yamaha have slowed production in response to rising inventory. Also, there are mark-downs on the older model CSPs and portables.

The CVP user interface has some similarities to Genos (gen 1), but it is distinctly its own. Has Piano Room, for example.

I'll be interested to see what G2 brings, but won't be cancelling my order. 

All the best -- pj

[Amwilburn]

The 809 and 909 are the same sound engine as the Genos1, not 2. The 809 and 909 are 99% the same, correct (even so far as the exact same styles and registration files, no YRM needed between them). Which I already told OP in March.

I was also correct in telling him that the CVP line always follows the TOTLA line, usually about 2 years later.
Except not anymore.

Mark

[J. Larry]

The G2---looking forward to improved voices and styles, not necessarily features.  But, in particular, realism.  How close are we to the real thing?
Is it convincing?  Having played in combos for years, I key in to the rhythm section, especially bass and drums.  I want my backing tracks to sound like live musicians, if possible.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If what is said about the 909 having the Genos inside of it basically, does that mean the new Genos sounds will not be improved??
Just a thought.

[jwyvern]

I think the big differences between CVP and Genos are -
- Cannot load samples
- No aftertouch
- No multipads

Mike

The CVP's also used to have only 2 RH voices compared with 3 on the Arranger flagships. Is that not still the case?
(If still true it's surely a major difference to consider for those who want to combine playing wider ensembles of sounds in addition to having access to the best  pianos.)

John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The 809 and 909 are the same sound engine as the Genos1, not 2. The 809 and 909 are 99% the same, correct (even so far as the exact same styles and registration files, no YRM needed between them). Which I already told OP in March.

I was also correct in telling him that the CVP line always follows the TOTLA line, usually about 2 years later.
Except not anymore.

Mark

Just seen some of your You Tube video's. You are a Great player. The passion is there also.
All the Best
john


Edit by overover: Added a missing [/quote⁣] tag to move the Reply text from the quoted text

[reya]

If what is said about the 909 having the Genos inside of it basically, does that mean the new Genos sounds will not be improved??
Just a thought.

I wouldnt worry too much about that if I were you.
Genos novelties (apart from piano voices) will probably always be introduced first into a new Genos and then be inherited by later CVP models. Not the other way around.

Example : the easy - at the touch of a button - linking of scores to registration files (supported by Songbook+ and later also by MobileSheets) was firstly introduced on Genos. The clavinova CVP 7 range that came out BEFORE Genos, did not have that. CVP 8 range that came out AFTER Genos did have it ....

Just my two cents ...

[Amwilburn]

Again no, the 809 and 909 both contain the Genos *1* guts, which I've known for a while, and I had previously stated to the OP back in March or so.

The G2 is *totally* different.

An that is totally wrong!! While waiting for my Genos back 6 years ago, I had the Ontario rep laugh and flaunt at me on the phone how she "just loved her new Genos that she got three weeks ago." I had to wait another five weeks for mine. I wonder if she paid the same $5,000 for hers that I did for mine. If the president of Yamaha is pulling this same stunt, then he's no better than the condescending Ontario rep (I have another word for her but not here) who should have been fired for her attitude to a loyal customer. I can see where the corporate apple doesn't fall far from the tree. On the other hand, perhaps Jayfield is saying this tongue in cheek .

Also Lee, you're possibly thinking about this the wrong way:*

They're not flaunting that they have one and you don't. It's more of "it's so good we bought one ourselves".
My dad taught me that you go to a car dealer, let's say Toyota, if everyone there is driving a Toyota (or Lexus or Scion, same company) then that's a pretty good sign. And he's right, i've seen car dealers (without naming names) where every staff car was Toyota, Honda, Mazda, but that's not what they were selling.

In other words, their products are so good all the staff buy them themselves; again there's another digital piano dealer locally. But *all* their staff own Yamaha digitals. Not exactly an endorsement for their own brand, you know?

*then again, I only deal with the BC rep, not the Ontario rep, so I have no idea what they're like. But our BC rep is super nice, very professional.
Mark