Second Genos 2 teaser reveals very little ...

[valimaties]

Quote... but this means it must also include pro functions and parameters, which maybe a home user does not understand....

Regards,
Vali
unquote

Another invalid assumption!
Maybe we DO understand the "pro" functions and parameters, but are still home players.... what utter garbage!
Uday

A lot of frustration, don't you think?
It was an assumption of what initial post said in this thread. More than that I've saw in most of these years I've spent here that there are a lot of home users which does not like pro functions because they don't understand. They don't understand most of the functions or they don't know so much of this keyboard. That is why a lot of people are scarred about pro functions .
If this is not understand well, sorry for you my friend!

cheers,
Vali

[Amwilburn]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but please refrain from name calling, or calling each other's opinions garbage. C'mon, we're a much better and less toxic community than that.

If you disagree with someone's guess, by all means, state your guess. But yes, that's all these are, guesses. Anyone with an NDA can speculate with everyone else on what they don't know, but what they *do* know, they're not allowed to 'speculate', so yeah, these are all guesses, and given the vagueness of the teasers so far from Yamaha, all we can do is extrapolate. i.e. guess.

We're all fans of arrangers here, and maybe sometimes we're a little *too* passionate about our love of arrangers 

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

The Genos does have a lot of pro functions that some people may not understand or care to use. In that case, they can purchase the modified version, which is the SX-900? Not sure if I got the model number correct. It has the same sound engine with fewer styles and voices but still a formidable machine. Both types of players win !

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Arn't the days going slow lately
Everyone is waiting for the kettle to boil

I have just got exited over steinberg's Spectral Layers Pro 10 a bargain on site for £128 special offer.
You can split a finshed wave file song into separate tracks for remixing. Great for those who lost their midi file of it and want to improve an older song they did. It can get rid of unwanted noise and that is only scratching the surface of what it can do
Oh well, it takes my mind off the Genos 2

[ton37]

Mm.., is a smartphone for a pro or home_ user? Or a smart tv for a pro or home_user? Or a computer, or a smartwatch. So a nowadays digital (smart) keyboard is a similar  product. How deep the user (pro or home_user) wants to dive in the technique or the possibillities is a choice of the user. Has nothing to do if he/she is a pro or home_user. Jm2c. 

[andyg]

I don't think arrangers was built for home use. This is a wrong perception of this type of keyboard. I don't use it at home, and I think most of us use the arrangers in gigs, parties, and so on.

As someone who's been involved with designing and using arrangers  from Day 1 - even before they were called arrangers - I can tell you that this is incorrect. Back in 1979 we were looking firmly at the home market. The instruments were a development of the home organ, after all.

Most users were indeed home players and I'll bet this is still the case. They have become so versatile that of course they have found their way into professional use and that's great. It's made manufacturers up their game in terms of features and sound quality etc. Good for everyone.

[valimaties]

That makes us humans and not programmed robots, different opinions, perceptions, feelings, and so on.
So let's keeping us on the subject.

Regards,
Vali

[BogdanH]

A professional is a person who's life income depends on work he does, regardless of what tool he uses. Hence, the tool cannot be called or defined as professional tool. A tool can only be of low or better/good quality, which is usually defined by price. Who will buy certain priced tool depends only on needs and money we can (or are ready to) spend for that tool.
In short: professional keyboard doesn't exist and so it can't have professional features.
A keyboard can have more/very advanced features, but it's up to owner if they're used or not -regardless if he's professional or hobbyist.

Just my 2c,
Bogdan

[ton37]

In itself a good description @BogdanH. with regard to the tool/instrument that does not necessarily have to carry the label of 'professional keyboard'. Sometimes the producer would like to mention this in the hope that it justifies the (sometimes higher) price and creates a higher qualification for the consumer.
But I find the definition of 'professional' somewhat controversial because it does not always have to be the case that a professional derives his status or generates a source of income. There are plenty of professionals who have/don't want a source of income and are very skilled. So that's why I see 'specialist/detailed professional knowledge or expertise or skills' more as a definition for calling someone 'professional'. The same applies to the definition of 'hobbyist'. There are many hobbyists who are skilled and I also know professionals who are hobbyists. People like to put people in boxes too ... there is only 1 box that is important in this context ... where the Genos2 comes out ... 

[ton37]

Arn't the days going slow lately
Everyone is waiting for the kettle to boil

I have just got exited over steinberg's Spectral Layers Pro 10 a bargain on site for £128 special offer.
You can split a finshed wave file song into separate tracks for remixing. Great for those who lost their midi file of it and want to improve an older song they did. It can get rid of unwanted noise and that is only scratching the surface of what it can do
Oh well, it takes my mind off the Genos 2

Right! Let's hope that the integration with Yamaha/Steinberg's Cubase is much more successful now and fits together seamlessly. I hope we don't have to wait long before the Genos 2 patch is released for Cubase. Fingers crossed 

[Lee Batchelor]

Right! Let's hope that the integration with Yamaha/Steinberg's Cubase is much more successful now and fits together seamlessly. I hope we don't have to wait long before the Genos 2 patch is released for Cubase. Fingers crossed 

Yes!! It's high time we had decent DAW integration. There are too many trap doors with the existing system.

[jazzy_beat]

Another processed image from the second teaser...

[attachment unavailable]

[AndrewKeyz]

I think it's incredibly funny what Yamaha are doing and they are able to keep everyone second guessing.


I'm pretty sure it will be a great machine. I still love the original Genos. 

One of the things I'm sure it will have is better update & style adding support.

And possibly some surprises no one expects.

I think that latest teaser is possibly hinting at a method of sound switching beyond what we've seen before (REVelation - reverse: piano -> piano +DX7 -> piano - all with seamless sound switching of course).
This is what I always liked about the Genos, is to be able to use registrations so easily to switch sounds and style parts. So perhaps even more is added here somehow for quickness and improving performance playing. Maybe several Montage/MODx active filter knobs along with parts which may be grouped & customisable to be up to 16 sounds instead of just 4 or so and even be able to be used for style parts or whatever.

I found performance control (style parts & sounds) very troublesome on the PA5X unfortunately / not logical at all and thus limiting to get things done quickly and easily. Unlike how Yamaha does that sort of thing. More straightforward.

[maartenb]

I think that latest teaser is possibly hinting at a method of sound switching beyond what we've seen before (REVelation - reverse: piano -> piano +DX7 -> piano - all with seamless sound switching of course).

Interesting, and thanks for mentioning. After reading your post I went back to the second teaser and listened carefully. The music seems to start with a grand piano with a FM sound partly blended in. Then it changes to almost full FM and ends with full grand piano.

This could suggest seamless sound switching, as you say. But to be honest, that effect can also be made using the Genos (1) with grand piano on Right 1 and FM on Right 2 and using the faders to bring the volume up and down for Right 2 and down and up for Right 1.

The voice change in this teaser reminds me of the morphing capability of the Montage (M) with the super knob. I just don't know what it has to do with "REV". 


Maarten

[musicman100]

Does any one think the pattern will continue with a video tomorrow and then next Friday and final reveal on Wednesday 15th November.

Is that about right?

[overover]

Hi all,

"REVelation" is obviously a high-quality Steinberg VST Reverb plug-in, included in Cubase and VST Rack Pro, for example:
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:yamaha.com "REVelation"

Maybe Genos 2 supports loading VST plug-ins. Who knows...


Best regards,
Chris

[ton37]

Past results are no guarantee of future results .. and it is Mr. Yamaha .. he does what he wants. In addition, the marketing department likes to fool around with us... so there is no other option but to wait... or indeed to make some guesses...

good find, Chris. It is slowly becoming time for Yamaha to make its software work well together. It was not without reason that they took over Steinberg at the time.

Imagine: Cubase Pro in the Genos2 (although of course there are already elements of Cubase in the Yamaha keyboards) .. Yeah

[soundphase]

Hi all,

"REVelation" is obviously a high-quality Steinberg VST Reverb plug-in, included in Cubase and VST Rack Pro, for example:
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=site:yamaha.com "REVelation"

Maybe Genos 2 supports loading VST plug-ins. Who knows...


Best regards,
Chris

Very interesting ... Perhaps the first real clue ... It's likely Yamaha used exactly the same way to write "revelation" for both to indicate a link.

[ton37]

Which function will be focussed on in teaser3?
My guess: '  SeamleSS'

[maartenb]

Does any one think the pattern will continue with a video tomorrow and then next Friday and final reveal on Wednesday 15th November.

Yes, that is exactly what I expect.

We'll see.


Maarten

[ton37]

It has been mentioned before. But will some of the technical improvements of the Montage M8 be found in the Genos2?
If the Montage M8 is a completely different concept than its predecessors, what does the Genos2 promise compared to the Genos 1.
Would you like to warm up a bit: my video tip:
'Mike Patrick is Blown Away by the NEW Yamaha Montage M8X!'
Click on this URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrISTHXtlfk
(If it has already been mentioned, it is new to me anyway)
What I'm impressed by: Touch Ribbon to Control Rotary on Organ (13:20)? Not longer intersting, only another knob with fast, slow and off. Thought it was a 0 -128 grades button
Who knows?

[richkeys]

Montage M, while a shiny new product, to me is not a completely different concept than it's predecessor. I think the YouTuber "reviewers"  are hyping up Montage M for sales. We'll get this same evolutionary, not revolutionary change on Genos2. They improved Montage with more library slots, more elements per part, an analog engine (which not sure the arranger crowd here even cares about) supposedly more detailed pianos utilizing the extra elements and some other improvements. They'll certainly put a more detailed piano in Genos2 as the teaser hints at, more memory, a few new styles and voices and some other improvements like tilted screen, but that's it in my opinion. What Yamaha should do is incorporate something like the slider on PA5X that merges 2 styles. Now that would be something new.

[mikf]

As someone who's been involved with designing and using arrangers  from Day 1 - even before they were called arrangers - I can tell you that this is incorrect. Back in 1979 we were looking firmly at the home market. The instruments were a development of the home organ, after all.

Most users were indeed home players and I'll bet this is still the case. They have become so versatile that of course they have found their way into professional use and that's great. It's made manufacturers up their game in terms of features and sound quality etc. Good for everyone.

100% agree with this. Like home organs the arranger is designed to be easy play ie make people sound better, shorten the leaning process, and open up the world of making music to more people. And it has worked well.
On the way some pros saw it as an opportunity for OMB, a very cost effective thing for people who make their living from music. But the bulk of the market is still firmly anchored in home players, learners etc. It has great appeal for those older people who either never learned to play, or took some lessons as a kid, but did not stay with it.
But they are also useful for very competent players who either enjoy the benefit of being accompanied without involving other players, or work as a OMB. I believe that their involvement has been very beneficial to all players and has helped drive development of the arranger.
Over the years we have also seen people recognize the benefit of these instruments for music production and composing. But those are largely enthusiastic amateurs. They are not the core of real music production professionals, who seldom, if ever, use these kind of instruments. So I think the term 'pro features' being bandied around for some little used system features is misplaced.

Mike

[valimaties]

.... But the bulk of the market is still firmly anchored in home players, learners etc. It has great appeal for those older people who either never learned to play, or took some lessons as a kid, but did not stay with it. ...
Mike

Sorry for telling you that I'm 100% dissagree. Maybe in your country or something like that. It does not apply to entire world. Don't generalize it, please, because you are 100% wrong!

Best regards.

[Tommy 73]

Montage M, while a shiny new product, to me is not a completely different concept than it's predecessor. I think the YouTuber "reviewers"  are hyping up Montage M for sales.

Having both a 1st Generation Montage 7 (sold) and now the new Montage M8x, implying they are "hyping" the New M series unnecessarily and also saying, it is not a completely different product, is missing the piont and wrong...

It is clearly a heavily revised product with a steep evaluationary factor, and has in my opinion, transformed an already very good 1st Gen Montage series into a Very Worthy replacement model, the new work flow and improvements across the board are definitely worth all the hype in my opinion...

What will be interesting to see, is if Yamaha can repeat this process with Genos2?  Then perhaps I could then consider changing my PA5X in the process (Korg have seriously dropped the ball with PA5X)

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Chris
Wouldn't it be great if you could load vst plugins into the new Genos
Oh no!! "more expense" Steinberg have just released Cubase 13

All the Best
John

[maartenb]

because you are 100% wrong!

A response like this to Mike's post isn't helpful to me, because it contains no information, just an unverifiable statement.

Could you please share what your opinion is, so I understand your world better? Are you saying that the pro market is way bigger than the home players market in your part of the globe? Or did you mean something else?

Thanks,


Maarten

[soundphase]

.... But the bulk of the market is still firmly anchored in home players, learners etc. It has great appeal for those older people who either never learned to play, or took some lessons as a kid, but did not stay with it. ...
Mike

...

Sorry for telling you that I'm 100% dissagree. Maybe in your country or something like that. It does not apply to entire world. Don't generalize it, please, because you are 100% wrong!

Best regards.

I imagine that initially arrangers replaced progressively electones for Yamaha with the same target players. I would be happy if Yamaha business strategy for the Genos line of product extends to composers that want to easily make professional demos (prototypes). In French we use the word "maquette" for such "professional demos".

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Who cares about home and pro players anyway.
Some home players can be better than some pro's and vice -versa.
The quality of today's arrangers is great and at the end of the day if the music sounds good it is.
Players should put expression and love into their music and then you are talking.
Roll on Genos 2 and get on the Hellbound Train and rock!!! no matter what level you are on. "Keep Huffin & Puffin'

[RoyB]

What are these supposedly 'pro' features anyway?