StyleMaking - a dreaded process

[rattley]

Greetings!

I feel defeated!  I have made several honest attempts at constructing new styles.  IT IS NOT EASY !!!

I made some styles. It took forever and they sound like cra* !!     I always knew it would be difficult. But I really thought if I applied myself I could do it. I've "Frankensteined" some styles successfully but making a style from scratch is grueling. I understand the StyleMaker...... but it takes so much time and endless button pushing.  I think it's easier using a PC but that's me.

Of course I haven't given up.  It would be wonderful if Genos II has a better StyleMaker.  If not,  I will treed onwards.  I may need to re-evaluate what exactly I'm trying do with my style making.  Maybe entire styles from scratch isn't what I'm after. Altering existing styles I can do well.  I usually get instant gratification!  That's a plus!!!!     -charley

[BogdanH]

hi charley,
I agree on both: it's not easy, and instant gratification. I'm glad to hear that you're not ready to give up quickly, which is the key to success.
Modifying/adapting existing styles or creating them from scratch... Allow me to share my experience and opinion, although I don't see myself as an expert in this matter. Even further: it's a learning process that never ends.. it only becomes easier over the time -but it still takes a lot of time.

I'm among those who say style should be made from scratch. Yes, modifying existing style might be easier or faster at first sight, but that's many times not true. Let me explain.. We think that because instead of blank page, we already have a style that's working and so we think that half job is already done. But usually we soon realize, that we need to modify almost everything what's there. That is, not only we need to add notes where we want them, but also remove those that aren't needed. Anyway, what we end up with, is usually just another generic style. It will be good enough for the the song we wish to play, but will never sound the way we wish -unless we change everything.
And here comes my point: it would be better/faster if we started with blank page.

Of course we need to start with very basic styles.. for simple songs that have clearly repetitive and slow enough rhythm pattern. But over the time, as we learn, we will be able to make more complex styles. As I have mentioned: the point of style creation from scratch is not to get something that's usable (or good enough)... it's about making a style that will sound exactly as we imagined.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[pedro_pedroc]

Hello.

I completely agree with Bogdan.
Also, Creating a style is not only about music - you may have programming skills and know all the keyboard features on every way.

I have three tutorials about style creation (from scratch). Take a look at my channel - the link is below my name. Turn on the subtitles.

Pedro 

[mikf]

You need both in depth system and musical expertise to build a style from scratch - but it's not just difficult, it's also a very BIG job. There are 4 variations, 3 intros, and 3 endings. Then there are the fills and breaks. It seemed never ending when I tackled it.
I see it a bit like plumbing, most of us can learn to change a washer on the faucet, but re-building a full central heating system and gas boiler ...... best left to experts that have the right tools and do it every day.
Mike

[rattley]

Hello

These "experts"  weren't always experts. They had to learn these skills somewhere.  "Slow and steady wins the race" said the tortious to the hare!!  I don't think Yamaha designed their Style Creator for professionals only?  But you must possess some skills obviously.  Now that I have studied  the elements of style construction I see I must digest things more slowly and in smaller bits. I have heard a lot of "professional" styles that are not that good in my opinion.  It might take me forever to produce something good but I know I can eventually succeed. I have the tools and this forum is also an invaluable resource. Besides and probably most importantly, I want to do this!!!

If I only create 1 style that pleases me I will be happy. But in my mind I really want to make styles that others might like too. Maybe we could have something like a "Style of the Month Club" or better yet a "Style Maker of the Month" club where members offer their creations to others. I'm beginning to think that there are far less people making their own styles than I have thought before. I'd love to see all the Style Makers climb out from under their rocks and unite. Let's have some fun!  -charley

[BogdanH]

hi charley,

... I don't think Yamaha designed their Style Creator for professionals only?..

Of course not: it's personal decision if someone uses it or not. But I guess that was a rhetorical question.

... But you must possess some skills obviously....

Obviously. I would say there are at least three skills that make up the whole knowledge:
1. Being able (or having talent) to analyze the music when we listen it. That is, in our brain, we need to isolate note pattern of each instrument that plays important role in particular music -usually the instruments which define the rhythm (bass, piano, guitar strumming, etc.). In short, we need to imagine how our style will be constructed.
2. Having at least basic knowledge about musical notation. The thing is, many times it's impossible to do it just by ear and so we will need musical notes (at least for important parts of music). A midi file can be helpful as well.
3. Being familiar with Style Creator because, needless to say, everything there is important. It's impossible to learn everything about it at once -it comes with the time and on need basis. Maybe a hint: if we think "this can't be done", then that usually means "we don't know how to do it".

... If I only create 1 style that pleases me I will be happy...

-when that happens, then it for sure won't be the last style that you made 

...I'm beginning to think that there are far less people making their own styles than I have thought before...

I think you're right on this. But that's to be expected. I mean, I can't play a single piece of Chopin or Beethoven, while other are maybe practicing that for days. Besides that, there's a plethora of good enough styles that we can get for free, so why bother. And so I would just say, whatever makes fun 
"Style maker of the month" (or similar) sounds like a good idea.. but only for few members. Because think: if there would be "Chopin player of the month", would you be interested to participate? 

Bogdan

[mikf]

I think only a very few arranger players try to make styles from scratch on the keyboard. While it is possible, my feeling is that Yamaha never envisaged it to be something typical players would want to do. Editing styles, yes, but creating a full style from scratch - no. I suspect that if anyone that wants to create a very close facsimile of a well known song arrangement, they would find it easier and better to create a backing midi than a style.
Mike

[BogdanH]

hi Mike,
I absolutely agree with you. I would say that creating styles from scratch, at least for hobbyists, is just that: a hobby.. a challenge. And even if the result is far from perfect, it makes us kinda proud that we were able to make it.

Bogdan