New P-series and CSP-series

[pjd]

 
Yamaha have announced even more digital pianos in the last week or so: the P-143/145, P-223/225 and the 2nd gen CSP-200 series digital pianos. These announcements follow the new Piaggeros, CVPs, ...

The new CSPs have exactly one front panel button and rely on the Smart Pianist app to unlock all the internal goodies. The voices and styles are up to the SX700/SX900 level. Amazing!

So, what about all the missing panel buttons like Style Control? It struck me that Yamaha are evolving to "adaptive instruments" as far as digital pianos are concerned. The CSPs and other specific models have AI Full Keyboard recognition and now the CSPs are adding adaptive styles. The instrument follows the player without extra button pressing. Cool.

Anyway, I have yet another post with comments and links:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-csp-gen-2-digital-pianos/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-145-and-p-225-digital-pianos/

I can't keep up with these guys! 

Take care -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Wait til you see the CSP295 in person (it's taller than a CLP785/Nu1x, making it look *really* skinny in person)

*We* weren't even told of the P143/145!?

Mark

[Divemaster]

For size reasons, not what I'd buy, but I think prospective buyers whilst doing their homework, would be well advised to check out the Yamaha Android Smart Piano App which this instrument requires, seems to be very poor indeed, and needs to actually work.
The reviews of it on Google Play Store which is the download site, are very poor indeed.
You'd also have to price in the cost of an up to date tablet.

[gogo]

Yamaha have announced even more digital pianos in the last week or so: the P-143/145, P-223/225 and the 2nd gen CSP-200 series digital pianos. These announcements follow the new Piaggeros, CLPs, ...

Unless I've missed something, the last CLP Yamaha introduced was the 725 in 2021. The 700 series is still current.

My main gripe with the CSP line is namely the absence of front panel buttons. So, to change the style variation, you need to raise your hand up and press an area on the iPad? Besides, the CSP styles feature only 1 intro/ending whereas there are 3 on the PSR keyboards.

In my opinion, the CSP is an overpriced gizmo that does a little of this and a little of that. Guess the target groups is empty nesters with large income who want to learn to play the piano at home - in other words, you earn like €5-6 000 a month and don't want to pay for a tutor - just follow the falling lights. The ones who can shell out 10 grand for the Grand and show off to their guest how beautifully they play 'Merry got a little lamb' with one finger.

Whatever I've said so far, I cannot deny these new instruments look beautiful. The 295 (not the Grand) reminds me of the high-end Petroff I played some years ago at the Musikmesse. At €16 000 it was not inexpensive but the sound was big and wonderful.

Now, if only they applied the same beautiful looks to the next series CLPs!

[gogo]

Regarding the new P pianos - the 225 and 145 - I do not have high expectations of the keyboard action. The former GHS was slow and clumsy and the goal here was to make an even more compact full-size piano. Weighing in at only 10-11kg - not much more than my PSRS-770 - I could easily take it to a gig. Of course, the weight savings mean they have made compromise with something else - like small 7W speakers and the keyboard action. So in my opinion, it is not an improvement of the previous generation but rather a side step. And the price went up by 50%.

[pjd]

Unless I've missed something, the last CLP Yamaha introduced was the 725 in 2021. The 700 series is still current.

Now, if only they applied the same beautiful looks to the next series CLPs!

Yep, you're correct. I meant CVP. I've got to mind my Ls and Vs. 

All the best — pj

[pjd]

My main gripe with the CSP line is namely the absence of front panel buttons. So, to change the style variation, you need to raise your hand up and press an area on the iPad? Besides, the CSP styles feature only 1 intro/ending whereas there are 3 on the PSR keyboards.

Hi gogo --

Thanks for your comments.

I went back to watch Yamaha's CSP video about "backing band" (the words they use to spin styles and auto-accompaniment). Although Smart Pianist has four on-screen buttons, "The band's volume and intensity adapt to the way you play." I assume Yamaha is referring to their "Adaptive Styles" which sense the player's dynamics and number of notes played to move from section to section. So, if you play more notes/harder, then the auto-accompaniment moves from A to B (for example). Or, playing lighter/fewer notes, auto-accompaniment moves from C to B (for example). That way, the player doesn't have to remove their hands from the keyboard.

Hope this explanation helps -- pj

[pjd]

Wait til you see the CSP295 in person (it's taller than a CLP785/Nu1x, making it look *really* skinny in person)

*We* weren't even told of the P143/145!?

Hi Mark --

I went back to look at a picture of the CSP-295 and I see what you mean. Looks like someone sawed off the back of a full upright and saved the front half!  Aren't they afraid of this thing falling down on little kids?

I don't know what to make of the GrandTouch/GrandTouch-S actions, yet. I've test driven the P-515 (NWX) and was OK with it. Good enough to arm wrestle with the Petrof acoustic grand at church -- can't afford much more than that right now.

Take care -- pj

[pjd]

I wandered into Guitar Center last weekend while my spouse went shopping for shoes. (Shoes? Again?    )

GC had a literal stack of 10+ P-125a digital pianos for sale. If someone really wants a P-125a, they should be able to make a good deal on one with the P-225 on the way. Seen on-line sales of the -45, too.

Just an observation -- pj

[gogo]

Hi gogo --

Thanks for your comments.

I went back to watch Yamaha's CSP video about "backing band" (the words they use to spin styles and auto-accompaniment). Although Smart Pianist has four on-screen buttons, "The band's volume and intensity adapt to the way you play." I assume Yamaha is referring to their "Adaptive Styles" which sense the player's dynamics and number of notes played to move from section to section. So, if you play more notes/harder, then the auto-accompaniment moves from A to B (for example). Or, playing lighter/fewer notes, auto-accompaniment moves from C to B (for example). That way, the player doesn't have to remove their hands from the keyboard.

Hope this explanation helps -- pj

No doubt this is an interesting feature. From Yamaha's web site we read that the CSP is for "people who struggle to read sheet music" or those "who want to practice by themselves" or "beginners or players who have not played for a long time". Regarding the first 2 groups, it's understandable why there are falling lights or the simplified usage of styles. I personally fall into the third category, want to begin -laying the piano again, but don't need to pay extra for the extra voices, styles and other things which I consider "useless" when playing the piano. The only reasonable feature is streaming backing accompaniment through blue tooth and the ability to play along - here, I do not need the SA and accompaniment voices but rather a very comprehensive library for backing tracks.

I also struggle to find videos on youtube where owners of CSP actually play them.

[pjd]

Hi gogo --

Personally, I wonder how effective streaming lights, etc. are when learning piano? Back when I was teaching, people did studies on teaching methods and so forth. Have Yamaha studied these features as to learning effectiveness?

Still, there are quite a few Forum members who might be the target market for CSP. Myself, I've been playing for a long time and I'm looking for a digital piano with a better than entry-level action. No CSP for me. 

Take care -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Don't write those features off just yet; I occasionaly use the follow light feature on the CVP (with the lights turned off) to practice sight reading (you can turn the lights off on the CSP and challenge yourself). Also, the key action on the CSP170/275 is basically the same as the P515 (the hinge points moved slightly on the black keys on the new grand touch version of the nwx) which is a good action; but the CSP295 action is the same as the CVP809/CLP785. Absolutely premium action.

I wouldn't use the follow lights much on the CSP myself; what I use *constantly* is the auto scoring (chords only, not melody) of mp3's. It's *great* when I have a new song I'm listening to and working on, and there's 1 chord change I can't figure out. Plus it instantly puts me in the correct key (I don't have perfect pitch, but I do have perfect *relative* pitch) so often I'll sit down and figure out a song, only to later realize I'd learnt it in the wrong key.

Plus the CVP705/PSRs970/sx700 or CVP805/PSRsx900 sound libraries are nothing to sneeze at!

[pjd]

Hi Mark --

Thanks for your comments! They are helpful as I sort out the Yamaha actions.

I played the GH3 (Arius 165 and 184) for a while yesterday. Took this week's music to the store and played through it. I tried the P-515, again, on my way out. What a difference! That GH3 was really fatiguing, but the NWX made me feel like I could go on again. I intend to try the GrandTouch in a few weeks. Still waiting and watching, and watching and waiting. :-)

Take care -- pj

[gogo]

I used to have a CLP with GH3 action (the 440) and still have a Clavinova CLP-575 with GH3 with wooden keys which I've been trying to sell. Both actions feel artificial and fatiguing. In addition, the 575 has dull sounding speakers. Both problems are fixed in the 745 which, at the moment, is the very minimum I'd get. I've been waiting for a new CLP series because the present crop is already 3-4 years old.. That blue screen on the 745 looks so outdated now. That's why I like the design of the new CSPs.

Regarding the falling lights and other hacks that should help learning to play a piano without a tutor, in my opinion, they would help the player associate the sound with the corresponding key - in other words, very useful for the very first steps. But I think, from a certain point of time on, one should attend lessons if they want to progress, maybe there are online lessons? Still much better than nothing. It's a good hobby and helps reducing stress.