Yamaha PSR SX900 Style search is broken completely unusable

[mikf]

Craig
I have read my response again several times , but see no 'flavor'. Its a very straightforward reply. I think you are reading something into it that is not there.
Mike

[Aquilauno]

Sorry to intervene again, but the issue is more complex than pointed out by Milf. I admitted that I was undiplomatic and probably offensive, I appreciate those who want to help, but I would like to underline that sometimes, what should help, can lead to an extension of the problem and not to a resolution, I admire the interest and good will, but also the prudence in answering. I mean (from experience) that sometimes a lot of publish a reply to a post without reading all the previous posts, this leads to replies that sometimes go beyond of the topic, or, to repetitive statements if not sometimes not really correct .
From the outset (3 years ago) the problem that would seem real today was dismissed too hastily by giving responsibility to the user and not considering other possibilities, I'm not touchy but it doesn't seem like a correct attitude even if this forum it is not Yamaha assistance. This was also happening in this topic (I'm sorry if anyone felt offended, probably it should have been said in other terms). The result is that if it had been tackled in a different way, more responsibly, today everyone would have known about this problem for a very long time and could have avoided it. Yamaha could have worked on this already three years ago and implemented a fix in the latest firmware (the moderators knows that is it and the real problem is that this has not happened).
I didn't want and I don't want to be argumentative, but seeing only the offense in my answer leaves me perplexed, however, I felt compelled to apologize in fairness because I am aware of my words.
However, if we all want to be honest, also to continue to say that indexing must have time to take place despite the fact that it has been represented several times in "the whole" topic that it was not like this for the "SX" series, because it is not equally offensive? (I didn't know you were a moderator Milf).
And especially in light of what has emerged so far. that is, that the problem is also on the Genos (did I understand correctly?), If it is true  many owners of Genos.
That said, I'm not offended, I'm not angry, just a little disappointed. I will be reporting the issue directly to Yamaha through my nephew who lives and works in Japan and hope they fix it before the SX950 comes out lol. Pietro

[mikf]

Pietro
I dont want to get into any conflict here, but I think you are completely misunderstanding the role of this forum. It's a discussion group, nothing more. Neither I, any other moderator or member has any responsibility to report, document, or solve problems on these keyboards. or even to read all the relevant posts. People try to help if they can, but that is all. They are not accountable for doing things better, or handling things differently or more responsibly so that Yamaha prioritize and solve these issues. If there is an unsolved bug on this search function, then it is solely Yamaha's responsibility to identify and rectify.
My personal experience - and that of many other users - has been that large style collections are not worth the trouble. I pass this on simply because that is my approach, and that of many others. It is not to trivialize your issue, or to say it does or doesn't exist, or to infer that you should not do what works best for you. I don't even have a Genos or SX, I have a CVP.   It is up to you to decide what advice you might take or not take from this forum.   
Mike

[madirv]

Well said Mike !!!

[Bill]

Hi Pietro

https://inquiry.yamaha.com/country/?act=202&lcl=it_IT

Bill

[Divemaster]

Yes... Absolutely!
If you can't be respectful to our Moderators then complain directly to Yamaha.
This is a Happy and very well run website and forum
and we all do what we can to help each other.

Mike, Chris, Roger, Eileen, Bogdan Fred, Bill, Joe and many others give freely and generously of their time and knowledge. Respect it. Thanks.

Time this thread was dumped.

Keith

[Lefty]

@Lefty
Hi Craig,

If you want to do a Full Factory Reset: On SX900/SX700 this is only possible by first calling up the internal Test program. Caution: This completely deletes/initializes all internal memory areas including the User drive!

If you wish to do this, please PM me and I will send you the relevant information.

For the sake of completeness: The GENOS has a special key combination to carry out this "Full Factory Reset" without having to call up the Test Program.


Best regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris.  PM sent.

If the "Full Factory Reset" works, then we will at least have a recovery method for these indexing issues.

The way I'm using my keyboard requires at least 1,500 registrations, styles, midi, and audio files.  It would be very nice to know what triggers this bug so SX900 owners could avoid it until Yamaha fixes it.

Craig

[overover]

Thanks Chris.  PM sent.

If the "Full Factory Reset" works, then we will at least have a recovery method for these indexing issues.

The way I'm using my keyboard requires at least 1,500 registrations, styles, midi, and audio files.  It would be very nice to know what triggers this bug so SX900 owners could avoid it until Yamaha fixes it.

Craig

I have replied to your PM, Craig.

Basically, I recommend not to search through entire collections downloaded from the Internet (e.g. styles, MIDI files) directly on the keyboard, but to first view such collections on the PC in the "PSR Style Database / Midi Database". There you can, for example, quickly identify and sort out duplicates and files with errors. Files that begin with a dot (e.g. ".-" files that come from macOS computers can also be quickly eliminated here. Only a manageable number of files should then be copied to USB sticks that are used on the keyboard, and the new files should also be listened to on the keyboard afterwards.I also recommend using USB sticks to store user files and never copying "huge" file collections to the internal User drive.

Note that in the "PSR Style / Midi Database" program there is no real delete function. Instead, you define a trash folder in the settings. There you can later move all files that you want to delete.

It is also important to know that reading larger collections in the program mentioned can take a relatively long time. (A small index file is written into each searched folder that contains Styles / MIDI files.) Later search processes take fractions of a second.

By the way, I have linked the "vanBasco Player" as an external style / MIDI file player in this program. As a playback device for vanBasco I use the program "VirtualMIDISynth" in connection with a GM/XG soundfont. By double-clicking on a style or MIDI file in "PSR Style / Midi database" you can quickly determine whether a style / MIDI file works at all and assess the basic quality.


Best regards,
Chris

[Lefty]

Hi Chris, thanks for all the good advice for file handling. It's much appreciated.  The computer programs will be very helpful for Windows users as well I'm sure. I'm a Mac user so they aren't as useful to me.

I performed a full system reset, and my SX900 still exhibits the same symptoms.  Search does not work on my keyboard for any file types.  Registrations, Styles, Midi, etc.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!  It's much appreciated.  Special thanks to JukkaSthlm who started this thread.

I'm off to try to engage Yamaha for some support. 

Craig

[overover]

Hi Chris, thanks for all the good advice for file handling. It's much appreciated.  The computer programs will be very helpful for Windows users as well I'm sure. I'm a Mac user so they aren't as useful to me.

I performed a full system reset, and my SX900 still exhibits the same symptoms.  Search does not work on my keyboard for any file types.  Registrations, Styles, Midi, etc.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!  It's much appreciated.  Special thanks to Aquilauno who started this thread.

I'm off to try to engage Yamaha for some support. 

Craig

Thanks for your feedback, Craig!

It's a pity that the Full Factory Reset didn't bring any improvement for the File Search feature on your SX900. Did you try the search first without the USB stick connected?

The best thing to do now is to contact Yamaha support directly, because probably nobody here in the forum can help you with your problem with the SX900 search function.

Regarding Mac computers: Running Windows programs on the Mac is possible (keywords BootCamp / Parallels Desktop / Virtual Box), but relatively cumbersome to set up. I recommend you just buy a (used) laptop/notebook with Windows 10 for little money, and all is fine.


Best regards,
Chris

[Lefty]

Hey Chris,

I haven't put the USB back in since the Full Reset, and I did give it plenty of time to re-index before performing a search.  I won't put a USB back in till I'm done with Yamaha support.

I did call Yamaha support. Got to a tech within 3 minutes. The guy was pretty competent and helpful.  He said there are lots of service tickets in his system about it.  Apparently there are quite a few causes for the same general symptoms.  He didn't try to troubleshoot it, just took down the symptoms, looked it up in their system, then escalated the ticket to their tier 2 team.  They are supposed to call me back within 24 hours.

I'll try to remember to update this thread as the saga continues. 

Craig

[BKeefe]

Anyone getting messed up by ._ type files from a MAC can purchase a program called Blue Harvest from Apple's App Store. This was suggested in another thread by someone else. It runs on macOS Ventura 13.3.1. I ran it on my USB drive and it cleaned 2469 items. It probably saved me from encountering the search problem described by the OP. Time to make a donation to PSRTUTORIAL!! I wonder if it would solve anyone else's problems here. I'm surprised that reinstalling the firmware 1.11 didn't clear up the problem since it should theoretically overwrite all the data on the device.

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[overover]

Anyone getting messed up by ._ type files from a MAC can purchase a program called Blue Harvest from Apple's App Store. This was suggested in another thread by someone else. I ran it on my USB drive and it cleaned 2469 items. It probably saved me from encountering the search problem described by the OP. Time to make a donation to PSRTUTORIAL!! I wonder if it would solve anyone else's problems here.

Welcome to the PSR Tutorial Forum, BKeefe!

Thanks for pointing out the "Blue Harvest" macOS app. I recently mentioned the similar app "OptimUSB" in this thread:
>>> https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,65965.msg499542.html#msg499542


Best regards,
Chris

[Aquilauno]

Allow me one last reply before unsubscribing from the forum. Some dutiful clarifications for all those who have published their right or wrong comments.
1) I'm not the author of this topic, but many including Milf for first continue to consider me the author.
2) If I am not the author, it is evident that I have not asked for help from forum members as has been erroneously led to believe.
3) not having asked for help or assistance I can't be disappointed with the replies, because the replies of the members are addressed to the author of the topic, ie "JukkaSthlm".
4) By Milf's own admission, the topic was not read from the first post to the last it would have been correct make it for to express a fair judgment on a fact or a person, the same thing was done by many others who supported the action of Milf, even congratulating.
5) I posted the following sentence "Instead, SX owners who report this problem continue to be treated as if they were just incompetent collectors of mountains of useless styles, strangely renamed and apparently the source of the problem in question". This was deemed my offense to the forum members, not taking into account that my native language is not English and I need to use Google translator and I can make mistakes in this. I immediately apologized for the mistake but nobody belived of the writer's good faith. Milf believed that my complaint arose from the lack of assistance received, but if he had read all the posts he would have realized that I was not the author of the topic, I defer the attention of those reading points 2 and 3.
6) I tried in my small way to help "jukka" and give the right answer to his request for help.
7) it has been acknowledged that my hypothesis of the operating system bug is the cause of the malfunctioning of the SX900 search function, an admission also by the Yamaha technicians who are working on this problem.
8") three years ago I had already hypothesized this possibility, but I decided to live with it, so it's not a priority problem for me, I don't need to see it resolved but I reported it to Yamaha Japan and European.
9) I am a supporter of the forum too, but this is not must a reason to have respect, respect is regardless of donating or not. I have not respected some members?  I have already apologized. But the offenses you are giving me are beyond the facts.
That said, I greet the people I've had the pleasure of meeting in this forum, primarily Toril, Roger and Joe. Chris and Mark for their competence and availability, Drake and Eileen for their generosity and skill, the same thing for Onacimus, Enildo, Rikky and many others. My experience and participation in this splendid forum of enthusiasts ends here, the negative reactions expressed in the last few posts by some people that go beyond what I consider acceptable, misleading the real events that occurred in this topic. Someone will get over it, someone will be happy and I hope someone will be sorry. I may have been wrong, I admitted it, but this ultimate behavior of some people is a defeat of this community. Thank you, long life and prosperity and good music to all of you. Pietro

[Lefty]

Hi Aquilauno,
  I have to apologize  as I erroneously attributed this thread to you in a post thanking you.  I corrected it as soon as I recognized my error.  I'm sorry if that caused you problems.

Notice the OP never responded after his original post. If you leave, they will have driven off two people with one acrimonious thread. That's unfortunate.

Craig

[BKeefe]

It would be a pity if you (Pietro) leave. I'm new here but I can see that you've made many contributions/posts. It would be a shame for the forum to lose your insights.  Best regards whatever you decide to do.

Bill

[Amwilburn]

Aquilauno,

I see no reason to leave (unless you really want to) yes, I can see how some of the replies seemed dismissive as easily fixable (I know it's not, our PSRsx900 ended up getting sent back to Yamaha for a swapout; I know it's not easily fixable because I've seen it, but anyone who hasn't won't know that) but it's clear there was no insult intended from anyone, yourself included.

Everyone just chill out, relax, and take this forum for what it is: A bunch of helpful experts like Chris, pjd, cboku, and some very experienced who've "seen it all" -- like lonearranger,mikf,  & myself... I started here at Tom Lee (instrument retailer) in 1977. That's not a typo.

The point is someone like me who's been playing keyboards for almost 50 years? There are issues I don't know anything about; none of us knows it all (not even Yamaha!) . A lot of times, it's just a shot in the dark trying to troubleshoot. Unless you're Chris, pjd or cboku, in which case it's usually a *very* educated guess.

Mark

[mikf]

It is always regrettable when someone decides to leave the forum, but certainly no-one is "driving anyone off".
Just for the record I understand completely that Pietro did not originate this question, but he did infer that it might have been solved sooner by Yamaha if people here had treated it more responsibly. Yes, I picked him up on that, but was not offensive, just pointed out that this was not the role of forum members. Pietro to his credit apologized for that.
I also repeated what many had said, and that has been said many times on the forum, ... that many of us at some point have amassed huge style libraries, and discovered that this had no benefit and introduced many problems. This is not dismissive, just a fact. However, I think Pietro felt this was not taking this issue seriously enough.
I freely admit that I did not read every post in this thread in detail, but make no apology for that. The OP's first post and some of the others were longer and more loaded with detail than my tax return! And I dont read that either, I just trust my accountant and send the check! I am rapidly approaching 80 years old and not a software engineer, so I would likely have not understood, and even if I had, could not have offered a solution to the bug..  I will bet I was far from alone in not reading and considering all that technical detail.
And not reading every word does not alter what I and others said, ... ie that avoiding large unaudited collections of thousands of styles might be the way to avoid this and other nuisance issues.
Bottom line is that I hope Pietro might step back and change his mind about leaving, I don't really think that anyone was offensive on this thread.

I did exchange personal messages with Pietro, and he did make one point that I have noted, and might need some further discussion among moderators, ....namely that the large collections that caused him problems did come from this site.

Mike

[Aquilauno]

Moved by what the members have represented, I renew my esteem and I apologize again with everyone. I will not delete my profile and I will remain faithful to this community, carefully avoiding expressions that can be misunderstood, here I think that all in all it was a bad misunderstanding, mainly due to different mother tongues and bad translation and perhaps also different habits and mentalities, what may be offensive to some may not be to others. In Italy, giving chrysanthemums is a symbol of pain and mourning, in Eastern and Anglo-Saxon countries it is a symbol of joy, peace and vitality. What I wish you all... joy, peace and vitality. Thank you Mike.
"What fails to divide unites even more".
This is a great community.
Pietro