New Yamaha Montage

[Benis67]

There are rumors confirmed by several sources that the announcement of a new Montage is imminent, 7 years after its marketing: a suffix will be used for the name similar to what was done with MOTIF (the possibilities are the classic +, Plus , ES, XS, XF,..).
For obvious reasons it is not known what the new features will be and therefore it is possible to make only hypotheses.
The first thing that will interest you is whether there will be a parallel firmware update to the current Montage (compatibly with the differences) or if, on the contrary, the latest version will remain 3.51, perhaps updated for some bugfixes or small changes.
Regarding the news, it is possible to make only hypotheses.
The first possibility is the inclusion of the AN-X synthesis engine whose trademark was recently registered (June 2022). As repeatedly said, to date it is not known whether the current SWF70 chips present in Montage are able to generate sounds with different synthesis from AWM2 and FM-X, and the eventuality of the AN-X synthesis generated by a new chip , would cut out the current Montage.
The second possibility is that a path similar to that followed with MOTIF is followed: a maintenance of the synthesis, perhaps with small changes, and an increase in polyphony (AWM2 128->256 and/or Flash memory dedicated to user/presets multisamples). In this case, without upsetting anything, Yamaha could follow the path followed with the Genos arrangers, where the second SWP70 chip (slave) which in the Montage does not have Flash, could have 4 GigaBytes of flash dedicated to User samples and/or new multisamples presets (see for example the excellent Bosendorfer already available as an additional library). We will see.

[Keyboard Master]

That is good to hear. Yes Since the Montage is been out for a while now it is time for a new model to replace it. I guess Montage ES

[Joe H]

I think a Analog synth instead of a FM synth is a better choice.  Maybe the new Montage will have both.  They retired the old AN and DX plug-in cards but Yamaha is very good at recycling it's technology.

Joe H

[TLN41]

Good insights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4JGbXjn0G0

[Keyboard Master]

I watched the Video And it was very Interesting. And seeing that yamaha filed a trademark that means Something is Coming. 

[Stubby]

TLN41, I agree.  Thanks for posting.  His insights are reasonable and make sense to me, at least.

[TLN41]

Well absolutely NOTHING at NAMM on any replacement Montage. Most retailers are out of stock.

MODX was also out of stock right before the MODX plus was introduced.

Montage was introduced in January 2016 for NAMM. MODX August 2018. MODX plus August 2022. Genos August 2017. Last firmware update for Montage was 2/2021.

So maybe August 2023 for new Montage then Genos 2 2024?

[EB5AGV]

Ask yourself... Would I play better with a new keyboard, being it Genos 2, Montage+ or whatever?

Definitely I know the answer in my case: is a big and bold NOT

So... Keep on enjoying and playing what you have!

Jose

[TLN41]

My issue may be unique - i want to get into writing music for my own enjoyment as a hobby - work/life balance. I have not had a keyboard since high school. I am willing to spend $3500 for the best tool/best sound. Just learning how to use it would be fun for me. I have Ableton but would really like a great keyboard with great sounds I can customize.

I like the workflow of the Fantom, but the sound in the Yamaha is night and day better. The MODX+ workflow is mostly unchanged from the MODX from what I can tell, so my plan is to make a purchase decision when the next Montage is released. Purchasing a Montage now, if I could find one, makes no sense. I was hoping to use the summer to dive in, but it seems I am in limbo waiting for Yamaha, or I settle for the MODX+ and hope I don't regret not waiting for all the extra bells and whistles in the new Montage.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi


I would say in my view go for a Genos or wait until this november.
Arrangers such as the Genos are great for ideas.
I think a new Genos is coming then.
Once you get your idea then use VST instruments to make a great song.
I am now 72  so i am not going to be a rock star anytime soon and my vision now is to write ideas on the Genos and then use a combination of Genos and VST or even for better quality transfer to vst tracks (Instruments) via midi.
Just a thought or my pennies worth
I also thought of these synths such as Montage etc , but they are in depth machines with small screens.
It is a lot easier working on a computer for fine detail.

Al the best
John

[BogdanH]

hi TLN41,
I'm not sure if there's a question, or are you sharing your thoughts... Still, here's my view on this:

.. i want to get into writing music for my own enjoyment as a hobby - work/life balance...

It really is important into what kind of music genre you're interested. Because, in my opinion, that can be important factor on deciding what type of keyboard you need: synthesizer or arranger.
I would say that synthesizer is a voice oriented machine and arranger is more a rhythm/accompaniment instrument. For example, if you wish to create a country song (or any rhythm based music actually), then this can be done much easier and faster on an arranger. That's my opinion, but I never owned a synthesizer, so I might be wrong.

By assuming that you're maybe considering arranger keyboard...
With $3500 you're a bit short, but I agree with John: if you can squeeze few more $, get current Genos. There are rumors that new Genos might come to market in late autumn this year.. yes, will probably be better (of course) -but will also cost a lot more than current Genos.
Second (my first actually) option would be PSR-SX900 (for about $2000), which you can later sell easier and with less loss -in case you realize you made a mistake by deciding for an arranger keyboard.

Bogdan

[TLN41]

Thanks John and Bogdan,

I have always had an interest in electronic/EDM type of music (slow relaxing instrumental to dance). I am not interested in performing/singing. Maybe do some cool instrumentals/enhancements of existing songs or remixes.

My thought is I would develop each track in a DAW, using the keyboard to perform/create each part separately - drums, strings, brass, piano, pad, create other cool sounds, etc. It would not be a performance all at once from the keyboard. I also have some physical challenges now - can't play at full speed, so I will use the DAW to adjust to the desired BPM while I play slower.

That is why I believe synth is the way to go vs Genos, plus Genos is almost double the Montage. And the Montage is almost double the MODX+. We will see if a new Montage will be worth the wait for me.

[pjd]

Just in case you're Rip Van Winkle: https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/montage-sayonara

Next model in the MONTAGE lineage is due October 2023. That's an official date, not speculative B.S.   

Yamaha are definitely in product line update mode!

-- pj

Wrote a short retrospective: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-thank-you-for-playing/

[TLN41]

And the new Montage in October 2023 likely means no Genos replacement until 2024 at the earliest.

[ton37]

It looks that Yamaha after 7 years of the release informs his customers that a model is discontinued (see Montage). So we will indeed read in octobre 2024 that Yamaha has discontinued the Genos, as the Genos was launched in oct. 2017 !? Great that they inform their customers so quickly ... 

[BogdanH]

...Great that they inform their customers so quickly ... 

I think it's usual practice that "discontinued" is announced after production ends and existing stock is sold out -otherwise there's a big chance that people would stop buying existing old product.
In this (Genos) case, it's also expected that successor would be announced... which obviously doesn't exist. In short, there's nothing to announce.

Bogdan

[ton37]

Not quite agree with you, Bogdan. There are enough examples in the economic market that companies people announce well in advance that a new model is coming (cars, mobile phones, TVs, etc., etc.). If Yamaha still had such a huge stock of 'old' Genossen, then they did something wrong. What is more obvious is that there is still a limited stock. Then it is also very common to sell those 'old' models at much lower prices. You don't have to be ashamed of a Genos if you buy it while a new one is in the pipeline, right? So..it doesn't feel very 'customer friendly' to say the least...but I think we know that??

[mikf]

My reading of the Yamaha announcement was that the decision to discontinue may not have been really planned, or even entirely voluntary. They seem to have accepted it has reached the end of the line in potential future development, and was already in short supply due to current component supply issues, mainly chips. So maybe they found themselves a bit cornered, and the decision kind of made itself. Particularly since they seemed to have almost no stock available. It's even quite possible that they knew the announcement may drive a sales surge as people try to grab the last available, almost a collectors item. It was a very highly regarded keyboard in the market.
Mike

[BogdanH]

hi Ton,
We can only speculate what Yamaha thinks, of course. I was in market/sale department before retirement and I think we can't compare cars or TV's with TOTL/midrange keyboards. The thing is, these products are targeting totally different consumers and also have totally different business & marketing approach.
In case of cars, TV's, smartphones, etc. competition is huge and everyone needs these products. And that's why we can see that i.e. some car is announced 2-3 years in advance -manufacturers wish to get customers on hook (and keep them on hook).
In case of keyboards, there's almost no competition and not that many really need this product -hence, there isn't much market pressure. That is, those who are interested, will just buy (or not) what's currently available -and not much is available.

Of course there's no shame to buy a discontinued model... But just hypothetical: what if Yamaha announced Genos is discontinued and there is no Genos successor? Many would think twice before buying it -they would look after more future safe solution (Korg maybe?).

I'm not necessary right in my way of thinking.. I'm just sharing my thoughts 

Bogdan

[pjd]

If Yamaha still had such a huge stock of 'old' Genossen, then they did something wrong.

Yamaha itself may not be sitting on inventory. Yamaha dealers, however, have not sold through. That's why Yamaha dropped the USA Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) and on-line USA dealers are advertising a reduced price.

No business likes to make its distribution channels angry... :-)

My reading of the Yamaha announcement was that the decision to discontinue may not have been really planned, or even entirely voluntary.

I think Blake Angelos (Yamaha) was trying to soften the blow with his language. (Blake is a very decent chap.] It's an American thing -- put the negative message between two slices of tasty bread. :-)

One of the main chips in the Montage, SSP2, has been superceded by the SSP3. Further, synth folk have been clamoring for Virtual Analog (VA) synthesis. I don't believe the current SWP70 tone generator is capable of VA nor would anyone want to control VA using the Montage front panel controls such as they are.

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/where-to-put-an-x/

Of course there's no shame to buy a discontinued model...

I've been asking myself this question while contemplating the Yamaha P-515 digital piano. It was released in September 2018. If I bought one now, it would still be a darned fine piano that fits my needs. I think a T5 is still a darned fine keyboard, too. :-)

If anything, Yamaha's announcement has encouraged me to put off the P-515 until I see the new Monty 88 (or whatever) in October.

All the best -- pj

[ton37]

Yeah, sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts here. My reactions are indeed nothing more than figments of thought. I detect in me some impatience to have a new toy. In addition to primarily playing music, this also appears to be an attractive side of playing the keyboard for me. And I'm a bit impatient, the years fly by. Initially I thought Yamaha could supply that to me. It has done it in the form of the Genos and now the SX900 . Because an upgrade of the Genos is taking longer than hoped, I am shifting my attention to other possibilities: a world without a new Genos does really exist  That could be the Korg and/or together with VST via DAWs. Can of course be fun together with the SX900. Enough to hold onto my 'learniness or curiosity'. So the long wait has at least given me time to explore 'other musical horizons', without putting the energy into exploring a new model in the short term. So every disadvantage has its advantage, a famous football player once said ;-))

[hans1966]

I hope the new MONTAGE will be as light weight as MODX

just my thoughts

Hans

[pjd]

The YamahaSynth.com site has published a sneak peek of the new Montage M:

https://www.yamahasynth.com/news/new-yamaha-synthesizer-sneak-peak

Check out the Montage M "subdisplay" above its knobs and sliders. Yamaha took this idea from Genos (gen 1) and fed it steroids. I hope GENOS2 gets this new display!

The sneak peek page also has a few Soundcloud demos. The Organ demo is getting people's hopes up for YC technology.

Have fun going over the pictures with a magnifying glass. 

-- pj

[pjd]

Here's a picture of the new Montage M subdisplay for those too lazy to go to YamahaSynth.com. 

That's what you call a premium look worth $5K USD! 

-- pj


[attachment unavailable]

[richkeys]

Perhaps they'll make the whole user interface on the larger screen easier to use, but I doubt it. I had no issues with the main 8-16 part Performance home screen layout, but diving down deeper into element level sound editing wasn't working for me, very unfriendly, more for sound engineers than musicians.

Rich

[steakikan]

Hmmm, the new touch screen interface does seems to say "New Synth Engine"

[richkeys]

Hmmm, the new touch screen interface does seems to say "New Synth Engine"

What photo are you looking at? The photos I'm looking at don't indicate a new interface yet, other than some new waveform icons I had not seen before. But yeah it will most likely have the new analog synth engine.

[steakikan]

What photo are you looking at? The photos I'm looking at don't indicate a new interface yet, other than some new waveform icons I had not seen before. But yeah it will most likely have the new analog synth engine.

The same one, cause the way it is designed is totally different from the old Montage including how they show the routing which hopefully seems to be flexible.

[TLN41]

October 10 Tech Talk

https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/events/tech-talk-s04e05

[TLN41]

Details from a The Music Store in Tulsa:

The MONTAGE M starts with the sound.

     The 5.67 Gb of preset waveform memory on the original MONTAGE has been increased to 9.97 Gb.  The 1.75 Gb of internal user memory has been increased to 3.8 Gb.  This massive memory allows for deeply detailed samples creating impressive new sounds!
    The MONTAGE M is the next generation with THREE sound engines included.  The AWM2 engine has been refined even further ton provide high definition emulative sounds like piano, strings, and drums.
    The AWM2 and FM-X are now complimented with a NEW AN-X sound engine that re-creates the sound and behavior of an analog synthesizer.  This engine provides the warm, classic sound and behavior of an analog synthesizer.
    The polyphony of these three engines has been increased to 400 notes (128 AWM2 preset, 128 AWM2 user, 128 FM-X, and 16 AN-X)!
    The MONTAGE M is rounded out with an upgraded pure analog circuit that reduces noise and improves the dynamic range, crosstalk, low-frequency phase, and distortion rate, resulting in clearer sound at all volumes.  The sound has more detailed low-mids and presence than the previous circuit.

The MONTAGE M improves with new control capabilities.

    The MONTAGE M8X (88-key model) features a NEW GEX action with Polyphonic Aftertouch.  The GEX action provides enhanced key repetition behavior that is typically found on grand pianos.
    The MONTAGE M8X action is elevated with the use of Polyphonic Aftertouch, which was a control feature that was offered in the legendary Yamaha CS-80 and DX-1 synthesizers.  It allows players to individually modulate held notes with additional pressure.
    The MONTAGE M adds new performance controls with a five segment ribbon controller, a new keyboard HOLD button for sustaining chords while using knobs to edit, and a Portamento on/off button and dedicated time knob.   These features all make the MONTAGE M even better when performing live.


Features by Model

Introducing MONTAGE M, the next-generation flagship synthesizer from Yamaha. Realize amazing sound with three engines that recreate warm vintage analog synths, cutting-edge FM synths, and ultra-realistic instruments. The Motion Control engine enhances these capabilities, adding a unique fourth dimension of control to your music making. Unlike traditional hardware synthesizers, MONTAGE M seamlessly bridges stage and studio with deep computer connectivity and integration. Designed to meet the needs of synthesists, keyboardists and pianists, MONTAGE M introduces a new era of sound, control and workflow in music creation.

All Model Features:

    AWM2, FM-X, and AN-X sound engines
    128 element AWM2 architecture for higher definition sound
    Pure Analog Circuit 2 for clear harmonic reproduction and even frequency response         
    7" TFT Full color wide VGA LCD touch display screen with streamlined workflow
    512 x 64 pixel LCD quick edit display screen
    Super knob (or assigned expression pedal) allows the control of eight real-time parameters with one motion
    9.97 Gb of internal waveform memory
    400 note total polyphony with 128 notes for AWM2 presets, 128 notes for AWM2 user memory, 128 notes for FM-X, and 16 notes for AN-X
    3.8 Gb of internal flash memory for custom samples or synth library downloads
    Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) recreates the sound and behavior of vintage effects and signal processors
    Send 32-channels and receive 6-channels of audio and send 16-channels of MIDI through a single USB cable
    "Live Set" allows for easy organization and access of most used performance voices
    "Seamless Sound Switching" allows changing performances instantly without any cut-off in envelopes and effects
    Modeless operation ensures all modifications to performance voices can be made quick and easy
    8 faders and rotary encoders allow deep real-time control editing
    Integrated 16-track sequencer and performance recorder
    Full metal chassis with IEC power supply


MONTAGE M6

    61 full-sized touch sensitive synth action keys
    Non-leaded Fast Spring (FSX) key action for lightweight feel with the exacting amount of resistance
    Channel aftertouch allows control over held notes

https://www.musicstoreinc.com/p-3339-yamaha-montage-m6-montage-series-synthesizer-keyboard-61-key-fsx-action-black.aspx