Linking Forscore on iPad to Tyros 5

[AndyT]

Hi,

The problem is that there are no messages at all when I select a registration but there are messages for everything else.

First, thanks to all those who have previously posted advice. It has been very helpful. iPad/IOS 13 and Forecore are the latest versions. I am using the learning mode to get the sy*** codes....

Selecting a registration from the user memory or hard disk does not send anything as verified by midi wrench. However, changing styles, pressing notes, and even pressing a registration button (once I have selected a registration) all send sy*** codes. 

I have tried power to the camera adaptor - still the same.

I have done a system reset of the midi on the Tyros.
I bought this adaptor as review have mentioned it is ok with midi. https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LQ2K8RL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have tried 2 printer leads and one is very high quality.

I think that this must be something on my Tyros as the rest of the kit seems to be working.

Any ideas please?

- Andy

[overover]

Hi Andy,

In contrast to the Genos, PSR-SX models and PSR-A5000, the PSR-S and Tyros models do not transmit anything when a Registration is called up (i.e. neither a unique Sy*** message nor Bank Select/ProgramChange commands). In order to send MIDI commands for switching text / sheet music pages to Android / iOS or Windows apps when calling up/switching registrations on PSR-S and Tyros models, the only way is to link a MIDI file in the relevant registrations that contains the desired MIDI commands (e.g. Bank Select MSB / Bank Select LSB / ProgramChange). When a specific registration is called up, i.e. when a Reg Memory button (#1 - is pressed, the relevant MIDI commands are transmitted instantly (with the Quick Start function switched on). (The MIDI file does not have to be started with the PLAY button.)

Note that what has just been described only works in one direction, i.e. to switch a "song" (text / sheet music) in the connected app when calling up a registration on the keyboard (Tyros/PSR-S).

For the other direction, i.e. to call up a registration on the keyboard when selecting a "song" in the app, you have to proceed completely differently (only works with Tyros2 - 5, but NOT with PSR-S models and Tyros1!):

1. The Registration bank files (.rgt) must be numbered with a prefix number at the beginning of the file name, e.g.:

001 Name of the first Registration bank.rgt
002 Name of the second Registration bank.rgt
003 Name of the second Registration bank.rgt
...
500 Name of the 500th Registration bank.rgt

2. The maximum possible number of registration files per folder on Tyros5 is 500.

3. Only registrations within the registration folder currently selected on the Tyros2-5 can be recalled via MIDI.

4. The registration banks are accessed in alpha-numeric order (hence the number mentioned) via Bank Select MSB and Bank Select LSB:

MSB 000 / LSB 000 > Registration bank #001
MSB 000 / LSB 001 > Registration bank #002
MSB 000 / LSB 002 > Registration bank #003
...
...
MSB 000 / LSB 127 > Registration bank #128
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------
MSB 001 / LSB 001 > Registration bank #129
MSB 001 / LSB 002 > Registration bank #130
...
...

5. A registration button (#1 - 8⁣) is activated via ProgramChange 0 -7 in the registration bank currently loaded via MSB & LSB.

Example:
MSB 000 / LSB 002 / PrgChg 3 > Registration bank #003 + Registration button #4


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[AndyT]

Hi Chris,

Thank you so much for your very detailed explanation.

Well what an interesting evening

I was trying all sorts of hex codes with and without spaces and all sorts of combinations. I created a midi button in Forscore as this was quicker to change. Instead of hex codes, I had to use:

Program change
Midi Channel 1  MSB 0 LSB 4 and then 7 - which gives me reg 5 with button 8

I really appreciate your help.

- Andy

[overover]

Thanks for your feedback, Andy!

I forgot to mention: The MIDI Port and Channel on which the Registrations can be switched is defined by the Part set to "Keyboard" in the MIDI Settings (RECEIVE tab) . In the preset MIDI templates "All Parts" and "KBD & Style" this is Channel 1 @Port 2 (= DIN MIDI B IN or "Digital Workstation 2" for USB-MIDI).

If you use a USB-MIDI cable connection to the tablet / iPad, please note that only MIDI Port 1 can be used here. This means you would have to create a User MIDI template with Channel 1 @Port 1 set to "Keyboard" part in the "RECEIVE" tab (it is set to "Song" by default).


Best regards,
Chris

[AndyT]

Hi Chris,

Well more experimentation and some more info. I created 500 registrations and deleted a few - just to see what happened. And what happened, wasn't what I expected.

Consider a scenario where you have registrations 001, 002, 003, 004, 127, 128, and 499 in a folder. You cannot directly reference anything above 004. Well I couldn't. Let me explain. You can get to the first 4 by decrementing the LSB by 1, i,e, 000, 001, 002, 003
128 is the 6th in the sequence and so the LSB reference for that is 005 (and not 127 as I expected)
499 in this case is 7th and so the LSB reference is 006 and not 498 (003 116)

That took me an hour or so to figure out and I think it is very important and not particularly intuitive. I plan to start with 500 registrations in each directory (pop/ballad/rock/country, etc) and remap/rename them as I go. I hope that others find this useful as leaving gaps to slip others in the sequence won't work ... well not on my Tyros 5.Not sure about the other keyboards.

Just wondering.....

If you have a few minutes, you mentioned that there was a way to do all this in reverse i.e. press a registration and then it displayed the sheet in Forscore. I could not see a way to expose an identifier, though I suspect that there might be one in the internal Forscore file on the ipad.

Also I figured out that styles don't come into the midi standard and so I won't be able to just select a style remotely unless you know a way. Forescore does say it learns, but the hex codes that it comes up with are not the same as in the manual.  The T5 data manual shows that you should be able to use F0 43 73 01 51 05 00 03 04 00 00 dd dd F7 where dd dd = Style No. Even after correcting the "learned" codes in Forscore, I couldn't get that working as only the voices seem to have a reference that can be exposed. I just thought - well it's in the manual

Best regards

- Andy

[overover]

Hi Andy,

Exactly because of this (namely that nothing "shifts") the registration bank files must be numbered at Tyros 2 - 5. Unfortunately, I forgot to mention in my previous post that this numbering must be CONTINUOUS, i.e. without gaps. However, I did mention that the registration files are addressed via MIDI in alpha-numerical order. If certain numbers are to be reserved, you MUST first insert "dummy" .rgt files for these numbers (simply copy any registration file and name it accordingly), for example:

001 Song Name X.rgt
002 Song name Z.rgt
003 dummy.rgt
004 dummy.rgt
005 Song Name Y.rgt
...

Regarding changing Styles:
You can call up/change (preset) styles directly via Sy***. The easiest way to find out the correct Sy*** code is to record a short MIDI file with the desired style (at least 1 note) with MIDI Quick Recording. The style control Sy*** are automatically written into the MIDI file. (When the MIDI file is played back, the originally used style is loaded again.) With the help of a suitable PC program (e.g. "MixMaster"), the desired Sy*** message can be read out of the MIDI file relatively easily.

As already mentioned, what has just been described only works with Preset Styles. I wouldn't use this method (calling styles via Sy*** codes), just use Registrations. You can also save changes to styles (e.g. mixer part volumes, changed part voices, changed effect settings) directly in the registrations without having to change/resave the style each time.


In order to send MSB/LSB/ProgramChange commands to switch a sheet on the tablet/iPad when calling up a registration, a MIDI file must be integrated (linked) into the relevant registration. There are ready-made, free "dummy MIDI files" (from the developer of "Songbook+") for download:
>>> http://www.baum-software.ch/downloads/DummyFiles/YamahaDummyMidis.zip

In order to integrate/link such a dummy MIDI file into a registration, the desired MIDI file must first be loaded manually. Then you memorize the desired panel settings on the desired registration button (e.g. #1) with the "Song" checkbox ticked and (re-)save the registration bank file. When calling up the relevant registration later, the MSB/LSB/ProgramChange commands of the dummy MIDI file are sent instantly (when "Song Quick Start" is activated, which is the default setting).

Important: By default, the SONG parts are sent via MIDI Port 2, i.e. to DIN MIDI B OUT. When using the USB-MIDI direct connection (USB-to-Host terminal), a User MIDI template must be created in which CH 1 @Port 1 is set to "SONG" (because Port 2 cannot be transmitted via USB-MIDI).


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[AndyT]

Hi Chris,

Well .... selecting a style from Forscore was very easy with your instructions and mixmaster, which is a great piece of software that I have used for a long time, allows you to pick the style from a drop down menu. It then inserts the correct codes, so that saves creating a favourites matrix. I am so impressed with MixMaster generally.

Midi files to bring up the sheets - what a nightmare The first problem was selecting the transmit port. It wasn't until I pressed the "wrong button" that it decremented the channels and ports; I read the manuals so many times trying to find out how to change the port.... and at one point with all the fiddling my Keyboard decided it wasn't going to play anything necessitating a system reset. When I realised that you just had to decrement to select the appropriate channel/port combination I still couldn't find anything in the manual.

Next I then figured out that you really do need to switch off everything else in the midi template to stop Forscore being confused by all the transmitted info. MidiWrench was a great help again. 

I have it all working now, but I still don't know what "MIDI Quick Recording" or "Song Quick Start" are - at least I can't find anything on the Tyros 5. Not sure I need to know....but I did spend a lot of time looking.

It was a challenge and I was determined not to be beaten. I have decided to drive everything from Forscore - at least for now. But it was a great learning process and I didn't realise how much I didn't know and still don't    

Thank you very much again, Chris.

Best regards

- Andy