Is there a huge sound benefit to Playing styles on Genos v SX900

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
been wondering for a while is there a huge difference in sound quality of styles in Genos vs SX900.
Just say one was playing a Genos and an SX900 thru the same speaker system.
If one just literally played the style (backing  ) no melody voices , just the style. Genos has the revo drum kits , so that probably would help, are there other things that would make the Genos sound way better as far as styles are concerned.

For instance , for melody I really only use piano, majority of time, so aftertouch, sa voices, and 76 notes isn't of much benefit to me ( I have my sx900 midied to my es920 piano.) 

Never had the opportunity of seeing a Genos ( in real life)  so just wondering.

[BogdanH]

I don't have Genos, but I did have a chance to try it in store -just so you know where I'm coming from with my opinion.

Yes, Genos has some voices that just don't exist on SX700/900.. and yes, they're good. But that doesn't answer the question how "important" they are. Because the answer depends on music you play. To understand what I mean, let me ask: if someone would ask you how important are MegaVoices (on SX900) to you, what would you say? Exactly, depends on music. Speaking for me, I don't use MegaVoices much in my styles -simply because they don't sound right to me for music I play. But there are songs that benefit if I use MegaVoice in style. That is, I won't use MegaVoices all the time just because I have them -I will use them when I need them. MegaVoices aren't "better" than normal voices, they're just different.
And yes again: Genos has overall "better" sound. But again, how much of a difference that is, depends on you (your ears). How to say, there is difference, but not "huge" -still, it can be big enough for professional music producers. For home and semi-pro use, difference is not really relevant. In your case, it will make bigger difference if you get good external speakers for your SX900.

That's my personal (very subjective) opinion and I expect it to be different than by Genos owners.
Bogdan

[ton37]

Hi @rikki, I had the Genos once and after that the SX900. I find that there is no/barely audible quality difference in the sound of the accompaniment styles of both keyboards. Especially when it comes to external styles!
Assuming: The compression/equalizer etc. settings are the same in both keyboards. It is best to judge them through headphones, directly from the keyboard.
Once you start connecting external audio equipment, there are many more variables that can lead to a different outcome.
And on top of that comes taste and the state of one's own hearing.

[DerekA]

The biggest difference I think is that the genos can apply insert DSP plus the variation effect to every style part, but sx can only apply to max 2 plus the variation effect.

[rene1242]

Hi @rikki, I had the Genos once and after that the SX900. I find that there is no/barely audible quality difference in the sound of the accompaniment styles of both keyboards. Especially when it comes to external styles!
Assuming: The compression/equalizer etc. settings are the same in both keyboards. It is best to judge them through headphones, directly from the keyboard.
Once you start connecting external audio equipment, there are many more variables that can lead to a different outcome.
And on top of that comes taste and the state of one's own hearing.

no no thats not right I have both and yes playing same style on both of them still the Genos sounds better

[Toril S]

Yes, the Genos is definitely better!

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Rikki :

All Genos players agree the Genos' sound quality is the best of all
(  high end ) arranger keyboards ever made by Yamaha.
IMHO they are right.

Best regards, JH

[ton37]

Hi, the definition of 'better' is a difficult one. People could discuss day and night and never come to an agreement when you e.g. compare the sound of two acoustic guitars, whereas both disagree which 'sound better'. The topinstarter is asking ' ... is there a huge difference in soundquality...' .  The Genos costs (incl. speaekers) more than 3 times the sx900. They have the same soundchip ( Genos have 2) , with a something different software design. So one may expect a differene in quality, but certainly not a 'huge' difference.  That was the question...

[Amwilburn]

It depends... are you playing a PSRsx900 quality style or below? If you're playing a Genos/CVP809 style on a Genos vs the sx900, the difference could be huge, depending on whether they used the Genos/809 exclusive sounds (like Kinostrings). On the other hand, if you're  playing styles from Tyros 1 or Tyros 2, there should be no real difference except the 32bit dac (the older styles won't use the higher number of DSP's available to the Genos).

But if you're playing styles that use the exclusive sounds, yes it will be noticeable... side by side. But if you just listen to it on one then the other, it would be a *lot* harder to pick out, since most of the accompaniment sounds are the same (the main differences between Tyros 5 and PSRsx900 are the S.Art2 sounds on T5, and the addition of new live drums on the sx900 compatible with the Revo drum data. The sx900 is *not* a "baby Genos"; it's a T5  with the S.Art 2 sounds removed, but with revo compatible live drums added.).

But as most of the styles don't use S.Art or S.Art 2 sounds, you won't hear much difference in the styles (unless you A/B side by side, even then it won't be huge). But the styles that use the Kinostrings will be 'missing' sound on the sx900, and will sound "off". Likewise any custom created style using S.Art voices won't sound right on an sx900.

Mark

[rikkisbears]

Thank you everyone.  I have the Genos styles, (that are missing on  the sx900 ) obviously they are not going to sound anywhere near as good on my sx900 as they do on the Genos, because some of the voices used  , just  don't exist on the sx900.
Wasn't sure to what extent they use some of these voices ,  whether in a lot of the styles or just a few.
The dsp's no doubt make a difference.

I probably should have been more specific ie the onboard styles that both keyboards share in common ie stuff like , Piano Ballad, Love Song, Broadway Ballad,  basically classics that have been around forever. They were styles I'm pretty sure I had going back to my psrs950  possibly even further back.
Do the onboard version of these styles sound way  better on a  Genos  than the onboard version of a sx900.

I'm certainly not planning on buying a current version of the Genos, knowing my luck they'd announce a Genos 2, a week later.  Genos 2, possibly a future consideration.

Basically tossing up between waiting to see if  a Genos 2 is on the cards , or get a PA5X to go with my SX900, (definitely not instead of.)

Hence the question.

[DrakeM]

Will, I beg to differ totally.

You can't tell the difference in a Genos and even my old, old PSR-S950 keyboard. 

Remember 3 years ago when I revoiced the Genos styles to work in my PSR-S950 keyboard? Then compared the same styles played with my keyboard to those I copied from another Genos video demo of the same styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDt7Pk97aK0&t=2s

People thought I was mixing the 2 keyboard tracks up trying to confuse listeners. First playing the S950 and then the Geno track and then playing the Genos first and then the S950 version. The truth was I was not trying to trick people as I always played the same keyboard version first every time. Which just proved you could not tell the difference in the two tracks as to which sounded better BUT only that they do sound a bit different.

The point of the demo was to point out if you take the time you can make your keyboard's styles sound just as good or better than the Genos. The sound tech quality is just that good any more. 

Drake

[ton37]

.....

Basically tossing up between waiting to see if  a Genos 2 is on the cards , or get a PA5X to go with my SX900, (definitely not instead of.)

Hence the question.

@Rikki, that's the same thing I'm considering, except I'm just "in" for a 61-Genos2. At least something fun to look forward to

[BogdanH]

Will, I beg to differ totally.
...
... if you take the time you can make your keyboard's styles sound just as good or better than the Genos.

Agree completely!!
Ok, is just my opinion.. but if someone says Genos sounds "way better", then that's just exaggerating. Yes, Genos is overall better keyboard than SX900. But if using the same voices, difference in sound is negligible -for home & semi-pro use.
And as I understood, that's what Rikki asked.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

For the time being only the Korg PA5X 61n is available.
I am not familiar with Korg's OS and too old to learn it.

Wished and hoped Yamaha would launch a 61n Genos2.
But I am almost sure the new Yamaha high end arranger 61n will never come.

Apparently a 61n Ketron will be launched in 2023/24.
A kind of Event copy with less features and another brand name.
No Event brand name. Ketron is not my cup of tea.

I really do not know which high end arranger I have to buy after my Ty4.
Maybe a second hand Ty5/61 ?
Time will tell, I hope.

Bye for now, JH

[rene1242]

Agree completely!!
Ok, is just my opinion.. but if someone says Genos sounds "way better", then that's just exaggerating. Yes, Genos is overall better keyboard than SX900. But if using the same voices, difference in sound is negligible -for home & semi-pro use.
And as I understood, that's what Rikki asked.

Bogdan

Thats not right the genos sounds better I own both when playing even same styles because it has better and more dsp`s and the drums are way better than those found in sx900 cause of revo technology
I have them both test them a couple of time together

[ton37]

So @rene1242, there is a 'huge' difference in soundquality of your songs on your website  played with the Sx900 and the Genos??

[brucerez]

...if you take the time you can make your keyboard's styles sound just as good or better than the Genos.
Drake

Absolutely agree and this applies to other brands too.

[Danny1972]

Hi rikki,

I hope you are well, really nice to see you again, I haven't been on the forums for a while, I recently checked out another familiar forum that used to be active and actually sent you a PM on there but I guess you don't probably don't frequent there anymore which is fair enough !

To answer you question, I have both the Genos & SX900 (and 17 other keyboards !!). I've sorted the styles that are not on the SX900 & was easy for me to revoice some of the tracks seeing I have the Genos as a the guide & they sound very similar in both. However I think the Genos v2 styles are more significant as there's some really nice ones that also play well in the SX900 without hardly any modifications.

I'm also doing the same with my Korgs which was the reason why I messaged you on the other forum about, although the PM is a little out of date now 

Oh I also have the Pa5x and it's a fantastic instrument as well.

Take care
Danny

[rikkisbears]

Hi Guys, yes my question was, if it sounds WAY better on the styles that both keyboards share in common ie the onboard styles.
Sorry become a bit of a mute point, couldn't help myself, my keyboard dealer has a PA5x for sale on his website. Just waiting to hear back from him that it is still available. Hopefully know later today.
Be nice to have both again.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Drake,
I remember when you posted those styles. I had difficulty telling which was which.

[Danny1972]

Sorry become a bit of a moot point, couldn't help myself, my keyboard dealer has a PA5x for sale on his website. Just waiting to hear back from him that it is still available. Hopefully know later today.
Be nice to have both again.

That's awesome ! If you do end up getting one let me know and I can give you any styles that you'd like to get you going as I've converted every single one right from the Pa80 until the Pa4x including all the bonusware style packs into the new direct single style load Pa5x format. It's an incredible instrument.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Danny,
Been a long time. What a week, caught up with Jeff here also, been years since we'd been in touch also.
Sorry  I didn't spot your post on Synthzone, I haven't been around much either. I've been in & out of hospital last few months with a nasty infection & a lump on my neck. Doctors were pretty much convinced it was  cancer, but couldn't know for sure till it was removed.  They were finally able to remove it a couple of weeks ago. Got the result back a couple of days ago. It was all clear.
Now I'm off on a spending spree. New keyboard, new speakers. New lease on life. Haha

Wow, your collection of keyboards certainly has grown.
I ended up finding your post, did you get the pa3x you wrote about? It was a good keyboard.

Well, I might be a PA5x owner once again, sooner than I would have imagined.

Currently I have Sx900 which I love, and a couple of digital pianos which I probably will sell if the PA5x is still available.

Wish I had the space to keep them, unfortunately no.

Hi rikki,

I hope you are well, really nice to see you again, I haven't been on the forums for a while, I recently checked out another familiar forum that used to be active and actually sent you a PM on there but I guess you don't probably don't frequent there anymore which is fair enough !

To answer you question, I have both the Genos & SX900 (and 17 other keyboards !!). I've sorted the styles that are not on the SX900 & was easy for me to revoice some of the tracks seeing I have the Genos as a the guide & they sound very similar in both. However I think the Genos v2 styles are more significant as there's some really nice ones that also play well in the SX900 without hardly any modifications.

I'm also doing the same with my Korgs which was the reason why I messaged you on the other forum about, although the PM is a little out of date now 

Oh I also have the Pa5x and it's a fantastic instrument as well.

Take care
Danny

[Danny1972]

Hey Rikki,

Yes it's been a while we messaged, I think the last time was when a few of us back in the SZ days got the SX900 when it came out, I was also getting the Ketron SD7 at the time as well.

I'm really sorry that you've been poorly but really glad everything is ok and you can now enjoy the keyboards again without having that worry over you, bless you I'm glad you're ok, and yes spoil yourself, why not !!

Yes I have nearly 20 keyboards now, I am collecting all the ones I want that range from some I had when starting out playing so wanted to get those back to some great models that are just worth having and some that I couldn't afford back then but now can experience them as a lot are at really good prices, even if they are discontinued to me it doesn't matter as they all sound incredible still even from the PSR9000 that I have always been after for example and eventually found one in immaculate condition so very lucky there. Yamaha wise I also have a T5 61 & Genos & of course the SX900 so my Yamaha collection is effectively completed.

I also bought 2 technics keyboards KN6500 & KN7000 as again never experienced technics before and was very surprised at how fantastic they still sound even today.

Also got a few mixtures of Ketrons & GEMs too, I wasn't quite as impressed with the Audya than I thought I would be and in the end gave it to my dad, I prefer my SD60 much more. I also didn't like the GEM Genesys and gave that to my dad as well but really like the GEM WK8.

I did try the Pa3x but I'm actually going to return it and go with the Pa2x instead, I just like the design better even if the Pa3x is obviously better but it isn't about that (especially since I have the Pa5x anyway). I also have a Pa600 coming next week which I've always been curious about too, but the one I really want is a Pa800 to complete the Korg collection but cannot find one anywhere so a bit miffed with that one. I also have the i30, Pa1x, Pa700 RD edition & Pa1000 and of course Pa5x so just really want the Pa800 now.

So yes I really wanted to try all the keyboards I either missed out on in the past and it's been great fun 👍

[ton37]

Hi @Danny1972, interesting. That's quite a collection of keyboards! That's also a way of not having to choose which keyboard to buy or which keyboard is 'the best' for me, just buy them all  The only choice for you is: which keyboard am I going to play today...

[rene1242]

So @rene1242, there is a 'huge' difference in soundquality of your songs on your website  played with the Sx900 and the Genos??

Of coarse there is If I use revo drums they sound better on genos  cause on sx900 there just samples
on genos i have more effects that on the sx900 are not present and the output sound is better yes

[rene1242]

Of coarse there is If I use revo drums they sound better on genos  cause on sx900 there just samples
on genos, i have more effects on genos  thatn on the sx900 are not present, S.art2 etc all in all the output sound is better yes
Try playing house of the rising sun for example its a preset style on both sx900 and genos see the difference and thats only 1 style

[rene1242]

Of coarse there is If I use revo drums they sound better on genos  cause on sx900 there just samples
on genos i have more effects that on the sx900 are not present and the output sound is better yes
Please note I create alot of voices to use on my styles -here we are talking about preset voices and styles

[Danny1972]

Hi @Danny1972, interesting. That's quite a collection of keyboards! That's also a way of not having to choose which keyboard to buy or which keyboard is 'the best' for me, just buy them all  The only choice for you is: which keyboard am I going to play today...

Hi ton,

Thanks for your message. Originally I didn't set out to get all those but it kind of started during the first lockdown where I was watching loads of videos on youtube of vintage keyboards and wanted to try some of them whilst you still could get them to an extent, although the Pa800 really eludes me still. Yes I can just go and get one of them out of the bag if I wanted a quick session on one then zip it back into the spare room but most of my time is on the Genos/Sx900/Pa5x & Pa1000 still.

Take Care.
Danny

[ton37]

Thanks for your reply. I can imagine your 'collecting rage'. At one point I had about 15 guitars and many, many pickups. But because of other hobbies I have sold them (except for 2, and not even the most valuable, but well the 'best' for me ;-)). I have owned the Technics KN7000 the longest. It was the hardest thing to say goodbye to this kb, especially because I had collected a lot of styles, songs and voices there over the years as well. That Technics KNsx-7000 was way ahead of its time and it looked futuristic! Have fun with your collection...

[Danny1972]

Thanks for your reply. I can imagine your 'collecting rage'. At one point I had about 15 guitars and many, many pickups. But because of other hobbies I have sold them (except for 2, and not even the most valuable, but well the 'best' for me ;-)). I have owned the Technics KN7000 the longest. It was the hardest thing to say goodbye to this kb, especially because I had collected a lot of styles, songs and voices there over the years as well. That Technics KNsx-7000 was way ahead of its time and it looked futuristic! Have fun with your collection...

Yes I think the KN7000 really surprised me the most, it has a specific sound to it that's not found anywhere else and really is distinct to Technics. All the styles are exceptional but the Ballads are something else, they really do give that 70's and 80's feel to them found nowhere else, even in the Retro bank of Genos, they still don't sound as authentic as they do on the Technics. So yes It's a beautiful keyboard and again was very lucky to find one in immaculate condition as is the KN6500 as well. I have noticed that you can find quite a few KN7000s for sale here and there but they do still hold their price and rightly so.

I think I will eventually wittle the collection down a bit, I have too many Korgs for example but there is a reason for that. Korg seems to make a lot of variations in their models where as Yamaha's tend to usually be similar through their range, (eg, PSR S950, S970, S975 & T2, T3, T4 & T5 cosmetically they were very similar and a couple of them identical (eg, T3 & T4 except for the ligts, and S970 & S975 except for the colour) whereas Korg really do have a distinction between models, eg, rubber or plastic buttons and aftertouch on some of their MOTL so I am trying to figure out which ones I will end up keeping after I tried them all. It's a great hobby and keeps me busy at least!