Style volume

[NAMA]

I have a style that has a too low volume on var 1 and 2 and too high volume on var 3 and 4. I want to adjust this. I tried to achieve this in the OTS but it looks like OTS does not save different style volumes in 1 to 4. Can anybody give me a suggestion to achieve this?
Thanks in advance.
Bert

[overover]

Hi Bert,

Which parts are we talking about here (where the volumes are different depending on the Style Main Variation): certain Style parts or Keyboard parts (Right1-3, Left)?


Best regards,
Chris

[Fred Smith]

I have a style that has a too low volume on var 1 and 2 and too high volume on var 3 and 4. I want to adjust this. I tried to achieve this in the OTS but it looks like OTS does not save different style volumes in 1 to 4. Can anybody give me a suggestion to achieve this?
Thanks in advance.
Bert

When I'm dealing with styles, modifying the style is a last resort. I find it tedious, and difficult to accomplish what I want.

In your case, I would use registrations to solve the problem. Setting the style volume in the mixer is easy. So I'd have a registration for each style part with the volume adjusted to the desired level.

Cheers,
Fred

[NAMA]

Thanks for your replies.
Chris: it is not a certain part of the style or keyboard part that is too low or too high but the total volume of the style. I want to adjust the style volume for each main variation and save this in OTS, if possible.
Fred: I know this methode but my methode of saving songs is to use only one registration for each song and I hoped to save the different stylevolumes in OTS. Is there a way?
Bert

[Fred Smith]

Fred: I know this methode but my methode of saving songs is to use only one registration for each song and I hoped to save the different stylevolumes in OTS. Is there a way?
Bert

Yes, there's a way. You have to edit the style to adjust the volume. You can do this in Style Creator, MixMaster or other programs.

I would start by trying Style Creator on the keyboard. Apply volume boost to Main 3 and 4. Hopefully that works. Just be prepared for a learning curve.

Cheers,
Fred

[NAMA]

Thanks Fred, I will give it a try.
Bert

[NAMA]

Thanks to Fred's hint I succeeded in adjusting the volume. This is the procedure:
Choose  Menu Style Creator
Choose In Basic the section to be modified, e.g Main C
Choose page Channel Edit
Choose Dynamics
Adjust Boost/Cut for the requested volume.
To have all channels in Main C adjusted make sure that Apply To All Channels is ON.
Repeate this for all sections that needs to be adjusted, like fill-ins, intros and endings.
Bert

[Fred Smith]

Glad you got it working.

Cheers,
Fred

[Aquilauno]

Hi Bert,I have found that some of the styles I own are too loud and after a few attempts I have found that I can adjust the MIXER / EQ and adjust the volumes on all parts of the style (Rhythm1 2, Bass, Chord1 2, Pad etc.). Once I'm happy with the result, I switch to Menu Style Creator w save the style. Each style comes with its own settings and I don't seem to have created any problems with the modified styles with this quick procedure... however, I don't know how correct this procedure is but it seems to work.
Pietro

[NAMA]

Hi Bert,I have found that some of the styles I own are too loud and after a few attempts I have found that I can adjust the MIXER / EQ and adjust the volumes on all parts of the style (Rhythm1 2, Bass, Chord1 2, Pad etc.). Once I'm happy with the result, I switch to Menu Style Creator w save the style. Each style comes with its own settings and I don't seem to have created any problems with the modified styles with this quick procedure... however, I don't know how correct this procedure is but it seems to work.
Pietro

You are correct in this but if you adjust volumes for the styleparts in the mixer the adjustments will be for all variations (sections) and not for a single section.
Bert

[Aquilauno]

Right observation, I didn't notice it because it is a procedure that I sometimes perform when rhythm 1 and 2 are at an excessive or too low volume, in these cases, usually, keep the volume of the two rhythms equal on all 4 variations, it is not a problem for me (usually, not necessarily ...). My fault that I did not read your post well
Pietro

[overover]

Hi Bert,

If you FIRST make settings for the style parts in the Mixer (e.g. volume levels) and THEN open the Style Creator and save the style there again, the changes made in the Mixer apply to ALL style sections.

To make changes only for one specific Style Section (e.g. Main A), FIRST open the Style Creator and THEN open the Mixer. After you have made the changes for the current style section in the Mixer, close the Mixer to return to the Style Creator and resave the style there. This works on all PSR-S/SX and Tyros models as well as Genos and should also work on your CVP-709.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[NAMA]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your input but I do not understand. In CVP I have to open Mixer through the menu (there is no mixer button, like in PSR-SX) So I have to go back to the homepage to choose Mixer and then Style Creator is closed.

I also tried this on my PSR-SX700 hoping that I could transfer the modified style to my CVP. I think that I do something wrong because your procedure did not work for me. The changes apply to all style sections. Can you explain the procedure in more detail?
Bert

[MadrasGiaguari]

Hi all,

I have genos and Clavinova too.

Both work in the same way. What I do (with good results):

-In Play mode, Mixer, I do basic adjustments of channels volume, voice replacement, track effects, tempo, ecc. if suitable;
-In Style Edit mode, Mixer:
     -start with variation A, start play, listen to the play; track by track adjust the volume (often I set to zero the volume, to silent
       a track, specially in variation A and B, to make the accompaniment more simple), starting from drum and bass, and then
       chord1, chord2, pad, ecc.
     -if needed, change the sound used in a specific track, and adjust the volume; watch: track effect modification will affect all
       tracks;
     -all this tuning (besides effect change) will not affect other variations, that will remain as set in Play mode, until you do any
      further change in Style mode;
     -exit Style Edit (without saving) and go to Play mode: play normally, with right hand voices also, to test how the tuning done
      in Style Edit fits your expectations;
     -go back to Style Edit and refine tuning of variation A, if needed;
     -repeat same type of tuning (change volume and/or sound of each single track) for variation B (remember to check the
       result by going in Play mode), and then do the same for variation C, D, fill in 1,2,3,4, intro 1, 2, 3, break, ending 1,2,3.
     -when you are satisfied with the all work you have done, save the style (with a new name, but without erasing the original
       name: this caution could serve you in the future to identify the style of origin). If you need to suspend your tuning before to
       complete all tracks adjustment, save it: you will start again from there.

A special mention for the drum tracks. I often go to Step Edit, where you may change the volume and the sound of each single event. About volume: sometimes the snare is too low or too loud; sometimes you prefer to replace a rimshot to a snare drum,  maybe you want to change the kick being used, ecc. This is the longest work to do, due to the lack of multiple settings (in the Korg I had, it was tremendously faster), you better know.

This method takes time and patience, but it is very pleasant, help a lot to learn the instrument and its options and features and the results are surprising.

Usually (depending on how deep was the tuning) at the end of your work you will have a style deeply different from the original one.
It is even more useful if you devote your skill to make a so called song-style (a style specifically created to play a specific song), where you may recreate the original arrangement and feeling of that particular song.

Ciao

Angelo

[NAMA]

Thanks Angelo for your detailed explanation. In fact by this methode you create a new style derived from an exsisting style. This goes too far for me. I only want to create different style volumes for each variation and keeping the proportion of the style parts. I assume that the way I previously discribed (Style Creator-Channel Edit-Dynamics-Boost/Cut-% value adjustment) is the way to go but I am not sure about that because I do not know what Boost/Cut means. I just tried this because I could not find a total volume adjustment in the Style Creator. Maybe somebody can explain?
Bert

[NAMA]

I am still not sure about the correct way of adjusting different volumes for the style variations. This is caused because the maunual refers to velocity instead volume when editing the dynamics of the styles. What is the difference between velocity and volume?
Bert

[Fred Smith]

I am still not sure about the correct way of adjusting different volumes for the style variations. This is caused because the maunual refers to velocity instead volume when editing the dynamics of the styles. What is the difference between velocity and volume?
Bert

Velocity is how hard you hit the key. It's essentially volume for a single note.

Adjusting volume will affect all the notes that follow (until the next volume command). Adjusting velocity will affect only that note.

Cheers,
Fred

[NAMA]

Velocity is how hard you hit the key. It's essentially volume for a single note.

Adjusting volume will affect all the notes that follow (until the next volume command). Adjusting velocity will affect only that note.

Cheers,
Fred

Thanks Fred for your explanation. I already had the feeling that my procedure to adjust individual volumes of style variations is not correct. Altough it looked fine at first, later I noticed that it did not feel as the original variation. So I have to start agan from the beginning. I welcome any help in this.
Bert

[jwyvern]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your input but I do not understand. In CVP I have to open Mixer through the menu (there is no mixer button, like in PSR-SX) So I have to go back to the homepage to choose Mixer and then Style Creator is closed.

I also tried this on my PSR-SX700 hoping that I could transfer the modified style to my CVP. I think that I do something wrong because your procedure did not work for me. The changes apply to all style sections. Can you explain the procedure in more detail?
Bert

The way to adjust style part volumes for individual variations is as already mentioned. Open style creator first and select the variation required BEFORE opening Mixer. If the CVP OS is similar to Genos you probably won't at this point find a way to open Mixer!
If so Mixer can be opened from Style Creator by shortcut by pushing Direct Access followed by Ending 2.
John

[overover]

The way to adjust style part volumes for individual variations is as already mentioned. Open style creator first and select the variation required BEFORE opening Mixer. If the CVP OS is similar to Genos you probably won't at this point find a way to open Mixer!
If so Mixer can be opened from Style Creator by shortcut by pushing Direct Access followed by Ending 2.
John

Hi John,

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no Direct Access button on CVP models, and obviously the Mixer on the CVP-709 cannot be assigned to an Assignable button either.


@Bert
Have you already tried the following:
- First open the Style Creator and make sure the desired Main Variation is activated.

- Then call up the Mixer via the Menu, make the desired changes for the current style section and close the Mixer.

- If the Style Creator is not displayed again immediately, open it again via the Menu

- Re-save the style in Style Creator.

Perhaps the CVP-709 can be "tricked" in this way, and the changes in the Mixer only affect the current style section, as desired.


Best regards,
Chris

[PierreSW]

Hey!
The easiest way is to go into the Style Creator tab to Groove and then Dynamic select Boost/Cut 100% is the level you have now if you want to lower the level then select e.g. 70% or raise and you get to go over 100%
you have to try it out so it feels right.
If you want to raise an instrument in the style, use the mixing console button on the left of the screen, you can press the mixing console several times to get the right mix.
When you have finished mixing, press Exit to return to the Style Creator press Execute and Save. possibly rename the style so you redo everything if it goes wrong.
You can also change the instrument to something that suits you by pressing the instrument part, but be careful if it's a megavoice then it can sound tricky with another voice
You can go into this manual tyros5_en_rm_b0 and read on p. 39 and 115.

// Pierre

[NAMA]

Hi John,

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no Direct Access button on CVP models, and obviously the Mixer on the CVP-709 cannot be assigned to an Assignable button either.


@Bert
Have you already tried the following:
- First open the Style Creator and make sure the desired Main Variation is activated.

- Then call up the Mixer via the Menu, make the desired changes for the current style section and close the Mixer.

- If the Style Creator is not displayed again immediately, open it again via the Menu

- Re-save the style in Style Creator.

Perhaps the CVP-709 can be "tricked" in this way, and the changes in the Mixer only affect the current style section, as desired.


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,
I checked but the CVP cannot be "tricked".
Any change in the mixer will result in the a change in all variations, even if I select other (preset)style the adjusted volume setting is still valid. The mixer setting is an overall setting of the keyboard and overrules the original setting independant what style is choosen. I think the only way to save is by using more registration memories for a single song. I do not prefer this. I do not understand why everything can be adjusted in the style creator except the volume.
Bert
Bert

[NAMA]

Hey!
The easiest way is to go into the Style Creator tab to Groove and then Dynamic select Boost/Cut 100% is the level you have now if you want to lower the level then select e.g. 70% or raise and you get to go over 100%
you have to try it out so it feels right.
If you want to raise an instrument in the style, use the mixing console button on the left of the screen, you can press the mixing console several times to get the right mix.
When you have finished mixing, press Exit to return to the Style Creator press Execute and Save. possibly rename the style so you redo everything if it goes wrong.
You can also change the instrument to something that suits you by pressing the instrument part, but be careful if it's a megavoice then it can sound tricky with another voice
You can go into this manual tyros5_en_rm_b0 and read on p. 39 and 115.

// Pierre

Thanks for you reply Pierre.
The procedure you describe looks almost the same as I mentioned before. Maybe there is a difference with tyros because I cannot choose Dynamic after choosing Groove. Groove and Dynamics are on the same page. There is no volume adjustment in Groove.
The Booth/Cut adjustment in Dynamics is for velocity, not for volume.
Bert

[jwyvern]

Hi John,

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no Direct Access button on CVP models, and obviously the Mixer on the CVP-709 cannot be assigned to an Assignable button either.

Chris

Hi Chris, yes I was unsure of whether the CVP has DAccess or not. (We can't assume that even by paying a lot more for a high end keyboard Yamaha won't sneakily remove some of the standard conveniences we appreciate on our keyboards! ).
Taking your assignable comment I have one of the knobs assigned to Mixer which normally works fine for general editing, except it still will NOT call up Mixer when in Style Creator, hence the need to use DAccess for that, even on Genos. (Still on OS 2.1, have not updated so far).

John

[overover]

Hi Chris, yes I was unsure of whether the CVP has DAccess or not. (We can't assume that even by paying a lot more for a high end keyboard Yamaha won't sneakily remove some of the standard conveniences we appreciate on our keyboards! ).
Taking your assignable comment I have one of the knobs assigned to Mixer which normally works fine for general editing, except it still will NOT call up Mixer when in Style Creator, hence the need to use DAccess for that, even on Genos. (Still on OS 2.1, have not updated so far).

John

Thank you for your feedback, John!

Yes, it's a shame that Yamaha doesn't have the all-important Direct Access feature on CVP models (and also that there are no Multi Pads on CVP models, and only two Right Parts). It is also incomprehensible that the Genos Mixer cannot be called up via an Assignable button when you are in the Style Creator. (On the CVP-709, you can't assign the Mixer to an Assignable button at all.)


Best regards,
Chris

[andyg]

Yes, it's a shame that Yamaha doesn't have the all-important Direct Access feature on CVP models (and also that there are no Multi Pads on CVP models, and only two Right Parts).

In previous threads we've discussed the reasons for this. Bottom line is that Yamaha want to make a definite distinction between keyboards and CVP pianos. So keyboards get Multipads etc, but never get that 'prime' CVP/CLP piano voice or voices, and vice versa for the CVPs - no pads or Direct Access......

That's what 'head office' told me many years ago. Maybe one day that will change, but I'm not holding my breath.

[NAMA]

When I started this topic I hoped to get a simple solution for it but it seems to be difficult.
Any more ideas?
Bert

[DerekA]

It seems we've got stuck.

The right way to do this is in the style creator, setting the volumes individually per variation. But crucially this can only be done if you can open the mixer from within the style creator. And without the Direct Access button, this can't be done on the CVP itself.

So the only solution I can see on-keyboard is to use one registration per variation. I know that's not what you *want* to do, but it's really the only way left.

[Fred Smith]

When I started this topic I hoped to get a simple solution for it but it seems to be difficult.
Any more ideas?
Bert

Post the style. Someone will be happy to fix it for you.

Cheers,
Fred

[NAMA]

It seems we've got stuck.

The right way to do this is in the style creator, setting the volumes individually per variation. But crucially this can only be done if you can open the mixer from within the style creator. And without the Direct Access button, this can't be done on the CVP itself.

So the only solution I can see on-keyboard is to use one registration per variation. I know that's not what you *want* to do, but it's really the only way left.

At least I am stucked.
I tried to follow the suggested procedures not only on CVP-709 but also on my PSR-SX700 (which does have the mixer knob) but no result. Anything that I modify in Mixer is for the whole keyboard setting independant whether Style Creator is selected or not.
To follow Fred's suggestion I tried to post the style that I want to modify but unfortunate the style extension .sty is not accepted as attachment. The stylename is WeAreTheChampions.S707.sty.  The volumes of Intro 3 and Var A are too low compared to the other sections. Maybe the style can be found somewhere or someone can tell me how to post.
If somebody can adjust this style please do and inform me about the procedure because I am still in the learning proces.
Bert