New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[hans1966]

Why am l getting that sinking feeling?   

[soundphase]

Perhaps this will help: https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange

-Kiplis-

I understand that with higher resolution, effect transitions will be smoother.... more natural.
Regarding "harmonization/exchange of controller profiles", I understand the technical interest of sharing the same interface. But from an end-user point of view, there is not much direct impact.

I think neural networks and AI algorithms should have a much bigger impact for us, by automatically guessing "emotions" and automatically adapting styles to them.

[Jeff Hollande]

 Ketron, I wonder if they have many styles
available ?
And what about Ketron song styles ?
All audio styles, I guess ?

JH

[BogdanH]

Ketron, I wonder if they have many styles available ?
And what about Ketron song styles ?
All audio styles, I guess ?

Watch this video where many questions are answered.
My impression? Ketron is currently most advanced keyboard and I can only wish having it.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

Which video do you mean ? 
The Event seems to have a nice sound, I agree but I like midi styles.
Easy to edit in the pc.

Best regards,

JH

[BogdanH]

hi Jeff,
You probably missed "this" in my previous post 
Here's the link again: AjamSonic Tutorial 8.

Bogdan

[Bill]

The Event seems to have a nice sound, I agree but I like midi styles.
Easy to edit in the pc.

Hi Jeff

The Ketron has BOTH - best of both worlds.

Bill

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bill :

Thank you for your feedback.

It is good to know the Event has midi styles too.
It would be interesting to know much more about the Event's midi styles, if possible.

The Event's price of Euro 4200,-- ( in Germany ) is a very competitive price for a 76 note high end keyboard, IMHO.

JH

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

Thank you very much for the Event's video you mentioned in your last message.
A very interesting video I did not see before. Sorry for that.

I agree the Event looks to be a very competitive and powerful high end arranger.
I have to admit there is so much of the Event I do not know yet.

As soon as it will be available in one of our music shops, I will keep my ears and eyes wide open before to jump to a final conclusion. Promised. 

Best wishes, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

Yesterday my dealer announced ( as of immediately ) a Genos sales promotion.

If a customer orders a new Genos ( Euro 4,419 ) now, he/she gets the speaker set GNS-MS01, free of charge.
Present delivery time : approx. 4 weeks. 
According to my dealer Yamaha seem to have 800 pcs Genos ready for this special action.
Given the number of pieces ( 800 ! ) this promotion must be global.

As usual, this kind of Yamaha promotions confirms a Genos' successor must be on its way, right ?



JH

[musicteach]

I am not an expert with arrangers by any means.  I use the Genos mostly for writing songs and creating backing tracks.  I wonder if the Korg or the Ketron arrangers have the ensemble voices?  I find these incredible.  For added realism, I often use micro tuning on the ensemble voices and this is easy to do on the Genos.  Also, changing the portamento on many voices is easy and can be very effective. 

Personally, I like the Genos so much that I seriously doubt a company other than Yamaha will beat it (for my needs).  I would love some easy DAW integration with the Genos though. 

[BogdanH]

...
Personally, I like the Genos so much that I seriously doubt a company other than Yamaha will beat it (for my needs)..

I can fully understand that! -we don't need "the best" keyboard: the one that suits our needs is enough (and is, in that sense, the best).

But.. there are things I wish to be possible on my keyboard, or that they could be done better. And that's why I'm curious about new keyboards (where brand is totally irrelevant). My standpoint is, that newer keyboard can do everything what my existing keyboard can, plus it maybe has features I'm looking for. Or even better, it maybe has features I didn't even know I was missing (because I thought "it's impossible").

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

IMHO :

A brand name is very important for most of us, Yamaha owners.
In my 22 years experience, Yamaha owners prefer to stay true to their brand for many reasons : Yamaha guarantee quality, easy to use, reliable and very stable in value.
For all Yamaha arrangers there is a lot of software available ( including software, free of charge, specially made by our own experts ) and ... last but not least the presence of thousands of styles made for Yamaha arrangers.
Most of the Yamaha customers are very familiar with Yamaha's technology and Yamaha's pros and cons.
Other manufacturers have their own technology resulting in a different approach and method.

There is no arranger brand in this market that is perfect. All of these instruments need a regular update and/or upgrade.
I am certainly not negative towards competitors.
Competition might be necessary to make our present brand even better and to check the prices in this ( small ) market.
Nowadays our competitors seem to produce very nice products but ... before I should make another choice ever, I will always give Yamaha my first priority.

Best wishes, JH   

[BogdanH]

hi Jeff,
Yes, everyone should buy whatever keyboard brand he prefers, although "loyalty" shouldn't be the reason - that's usually expensive thinking 

..Yamaha guarantee quality, easy to use, reliable and very stable in value...

-from what I can see on web, it's no better or worse than other reputable brands.

For all Yamaha arrangers there is a lot of software available ( including software, free of charge, specially made by our own experts ) and ... last but not least the presence of thousands of styles made for Yamaha arrangers.

The only software Yamaha provides is YEM, because keyboard needs it to function as an arranger keyboard. And because of YEM limitations, we're practically forced to use additional software. In that sense, Etienne (MixMaster author) and J.Sorensen deserve more credit than Yamaha: they do it for free, while the cost of "free" YEM is included in keyboard price.
Thousands of styles... let's face it, most of them are duplicates of duplicates (where only tempo and some voices are changed).

I have Yamaha and I don't regret my decision -it was the best keyboard (for me) that I could afford at that time and I'm still happy with it. My next keyboard? I honestly have no idea which one it will be... probably it will be some that's the best for me 

Regards,
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

You are absolutely right each individual arranger user must go for the arranger that suits best.
IMO this decision mostly goes hand in hand with a certain feeling of loyalty.

There must be a reason why Yamaha still are the market leaders for more than 20 years now.
In 2024 we will know if Yamaha will keep their #1 worldwide position for the next 5 years ... only time will tell. 


Best regards, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

Joe H said in another thread ( Montage's successor )  :

Sounds like Yamaha is recycling old technology again, which is something they are very good at.

It is not the first time we have heard these words ...
That would be wonderful news for the Genos' successor too, IMO.
Wiil it be called " New Tyros " ? 

JH

[Misu]

Hi,

Someone has already chosen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ILXMhnqabE

Best regards!

[ton37]

Thx @misu for the link. Technical he made some good statements, which already have been mentioned in this post. We have just to wait, hear and try this machine when it is on the market. 2023 looks to become a year wherein one can make a choice between Korg, Yamaha or Ketron. Luxury situation for us, keyboard lovers  I'm still keeping all options open for myself.

[Lee Batchelor]

Ketron can only drag their feet on releasing the Event, for so long. Their dealer network is laughable. They spilled the information about it and with peoples' desire for instant gratification these days, the Event needs to come to market or die. Same with the PA5X. It's out there but in need of some serious updates because it's not fully functional.

These are very poor business practices. The idea of "teasing" potential buyers and then not coming through with your product, does not sit well with everyone and is corporate suicide. Of course, there will be reasonable sales for the two keyboards at the outset but when Yamaha releases Genos 2, it will be ready, with few glitches. The latter will be dealt with swiftly. I'll wait for it.

Just my thoughts...😀.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Lee :

IMHO Yamaha are in the best driver's seat to maintain their #1 global position in this market now that Yamaha are aware of what the 2 competitors are offering.

I am no longer interested in buying a competitors' new arranger.
I will wait for Yamaha's new baby ... 2024 might be the right time, I guess.

Take care, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

Excellent points, Jeff. There's the old saying in poker, "Never tip your hand too early in the game." Ketron and Korg have done that. Yamaha's response will be stellar .

[DerekA]

I am no longer interested in buying a competitors' new arranger.
I will wait for Yamaha's new baby ... 2024 might be the right time, I guess.

Is that your final decision Jeff  

[BogdanH]

IMHO Yamaha are in the best driver's seat to maintain their #1 global position in this market now that Yamaha are aware of what the 2 competitors are offering.
...

That might not necessary be the case... for example, Yamaha needed 10+ years to catch up with Korg on touch display. Every company has different priorities targeting different customers.
Speaking for me, if next Yamaha will only be an "improvement" of existing keyboards, then I'll pass -they're doing that for too many years. In that sense, I can fully understand PSR-S950/Tyros3 owners who see no reason to buy new keyboard.
I hope Yamaha to positively surprise everyone.. because the more competition there is, the better for customer. We need to pay for keyboard we buy, remember? 

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

@ Bogdan :

I have been told the Genos came 5-6 years ago with a complete new software concept : better sound and better drums than ever before ... or am I wrong ?
I am not familiar with the Genos at all, sorry ... never played one. 

Best regards, JH

[Jeff Hollande]

Is that your final decision Jeff  

Correct ... I prefer to wait for Yamaha's new baby first before making any decision. 
I am not in a hurry.
After my 22 years' experience this company never let me down. 

Best regards, JH

[maartenb]

I have been told the Genos came 5-6 years ago with a complete new software concept : better sound and better drums than ever before ...

Indeed the Genos is built on a different operating system than the Tyros series.

The Revo! drums were introduced with the Genos, but that has nothing to do with the operating system.

Also the hardware platform is different (please see PJ's website "Sand, software and sound" for detailed information) which enabled better samples.


Maarten

[BogdanH]

Indeed the Genos is built on a different operating system than the Tyros series...

We will never really know, but ... my impression is, that only interface was adapted to touch screen. Yes, there were few options added, but at the same time Genos inherited limitations from previous generation: clumsy style editor, only partial voice editing possibility, YEM dependence & limitations, etc. That is, maybe OS is "new", but from users perspective, not much has changed. Or if I make a parallel comparison, it's similar difference as is between PSR-S970 and PSR-SX900 -which is not that big.
And that's why I said I wish (for sake of competition) Yamaha to come with something actually new.

I expect many to disagree with my opinion.. I respect that 
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

We will never really know, but ... my impression is, that only interface was adapted to touch screen. Yes, there were few options added, but at the same time Genos inherited limitations from previous generation: clumsy style editor, only partial voice editing possibility, YEM dependence & limitations, etc. That is, maybe OS is "new", but from users perspective, not much has changed. Or if I make a parallel comparison, it's similar difference as is between PSR-S970 and PSR-SX900 -which is not that big.
And that's why I said I wish (for sake of competition) Yamaha to come with something actually new.

I expect many to disagree with my opinion.. I respect that 
Bogdan

Hey Bogdan :

As I said in my previous message I am absolutely not familiar with the Genos at all ... but ... you might be right many Genos' owners wiil disagree with your words.
Wait and see IF they are willing to comment your statement.

Best regards, JH

[DerekA]

I think BogdanH is 100% correct.

The UI may have had a facelift, and perhaps the actual OS code was rewritten, but in terms of what it actually does - what we'd call the "functional specification" - very little is different from Tyros 5.

(Some exceptions - Chord looper, assignable knobs and buttons, storing DSP parameter settings in registrations, search, playlist)

It is all, fundamentally, based on the XG specification that's been around for many years.

(For the avoidance of doubt I am very fond of my Genos, as an overall package including content it's better than the Tyros 5)

[travlin-easy]

I guess I look at this in a different light. Why make drastic changes to a great product? Think about the Volkswagen Beetle, a car that went unchanged for decades, other than some very minor exterior modifications. That product stood the test of time, and continues to sell like hotcakes every new year model. The same goes for the Genos, it looks great, sounds fantastic, does more things than most members of the forum are capable of accomplishing, and is extremely reliable, which is a great asset for full-time musical entertainers who put it to work for them every day of the week.

I agree, there are a few individuals that want things their way, new features that would rarely be used by the masses. Some of those changes would be easy to facilitate with software updates, while others would require more drastic undertakings and additional hardware modifications. From the standpoint of practicality, I sincerely believe that Yamaha is on the right track, with only minor modifications with new, TOTL models. Korg seems to be headed in the right direction as well, while Roland got out of the arranger keyboard business and is trying to keep it's head above water with it's current models.

Is this horse dead yet?

Gary