New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[Sokratis1974]

Nice video, Henni. Does the Event use round robin backing tracks? They are far more interesting than the Genos. Less repetitive.

No.. Nothing more than a simple (new type) Audio style. Combined of course with the new excellent VOICETRON (for vocal harmonies)

[bpsafran]

But while the audio may sound more live, you can make midi styles less repetative by having longer patterns and variations for different chord types. Some older Lowrey organs had several possible patterns for each chord type and switched from one to another randomly. More recent Lowreys have extremely long patterns. I don't know why Yamaha patterns are mostly only 2 or 4 bars.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, bpsafran. I agree. Despite the stellar voicings on the Genos, they have fallen WAY behind in their style architecture. The styles are well done but very routine, boring, and predictable. Hopefully, Yamaha will remedy this most important shortcoming in Genos 2.

[keynote]

The YouTube video regarding Sokratis' demonstration is interesting, but I noticed when the audio samples created with VSTi's and Cubase 12 were used in conjunction with the Event audio style (Epic_Rock), there was some degradation in the sound of the audio style when it was playing along with the user created audio samples. If there was no discernible sound degradation when combining user audio samples with the Event audio styles, then I would say a fantastic innovation. But with the noticeable sound degradation, I will give my honest opinion and say somebody should go back to the drawing board. Either Ketron Italy software/sound engineers need to tweak things on the Event, or it could possibly be the user created audio samples are somehow not fully compatible with the Event audio styles format and this could be the fault with producing/recording with Cubase 12 and/or the VSTi's used with Cubase 12, or both potentially. Btw, Cubase 12 Pro costs $579. FWIW, it is a very interesting concept, but seems very time-consuming and work intensive. If it worked seamlessly and flawlessly with no degradation in sound quality, then it would be another great reason and incentive to purchase a Ketron Event. Cheers.

All the best,
Mike

[Sokratis1974]

The YouTube video regarding Sokratis' demonstration is interesting, but I noticed when the audio samples created with VSTi's and Cubase 12 were used in conjunction with the Event audio style (Epic_Rock), there was some degradation in the sound of the audio style when it was playing along with the user created audio samples. If there was no discernible sound degradation when combining user audio samples with the Event audio styles, then I would say a fantastic innovation. But with the noticeable sound degradation, I will give my honest opinion and say somebody should go back to the drawing board. Either Ketron Italy software/sound engineers need to tweak things on the Event, or it could possibly be the user created audio samples are somehow not fully compatible with the Event audio styles format and this could be the fault with producing/recording with Cubase 12 and/or the VSTi's used with Cubase 12, or both potentially. Btw, Cubase 12 Pro costs $579. FWIW, it is a very interesting concept, but seems very time-consuming and work intensive. If it worked seamlessly and flawlessly with no degradation in sound quality, then it would be another great reason and incentive to purchase a Ketron Event. Cheers.

All the best,
Mike

Dear Mike. I have not understood what kind of degradation you have detected. But I must say that within the Event I have made some kind of intervention through EQ in order for them to (stick) between the other elements. But, if you want I can make you a completely flat demo on the audio part (Real Chord) so you can hear the differences. I think up to a point there will be some difference because I don't think the Event AD/DA Converters are any better than the RME UCX ones I have.

[soryt]

I only  see a display and hear the sounds , show it real-time played.
Then I believe what I hear , video editing is so easy

[Sokratis1974]

I only  see a display and hear the sounds , show it real-time played.
Then I believe what I hear , video editing is so easy

So, my friend if I wanted to deceive with this video, I must have been too stupid to do so because it would be easy for someone who bought the Event later to find out that I had deceived the people. The practices used by Yamaha with the Genos campaign (Alex Christensen video) which we analyzed a little earlier in this post, I will not neither I nor Ketron will use them. The fact that I didn't put a camera is purely for technical reasons because I have a very serious problem in my home studio where the space is very limited, and I don't have a good place to set up the video camera properly. So, what I did is I got the video and sound of the Event via OBS (HDMI for video and Stereo Line Out for sound) and I recorded it.
Also, to say that I am not the one who posted this video in here.
But whether you (or others) believe it or not, this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. And since I have no purpose and no reason to prove anything, I'm going to say this publicly something very simple: If you ever find yourself in a music store that has the  Event as demo I'd love for you to send me a message and I'll send you this entire project directly which is very easy to load into the Event and play it yourself. What do you say you will do?
Anyway, I publicly commit that I will do it not only to you but to anyone who wants to.

[Jeff Hollande]

Dear Sokratis :

I know and believe you are telling the truth.

Keep smiling : up to now the Event seems to be a very professional arranger keyboard with a great sound and a high price ( EURO 5.000, -- !!! ) .
I have no idea what the final street price will be.

The Event is not available in our Dutch music shops yet.
According to our dealers it will take at least 4 - 5 weeks before the public can see, hear, touch and try it.
Only then we will read the first reactions / impressions and comments.  

Last but not least most people here want to know what Yamaha's answer will be before making any decision. Understandable, right ? 

I wish you and your family a Merry X-Mas and a Happy New Year.
Best regards, JH

[Bill]

the Event seems to be a very professional arranger keyboard with a great sound and a high price ( EURO 5.000, -- !!! ) .
I have no idea what the final street price will be.

The price is €4099

https://www.ketron.it/prodotto/event

[BogdanH]

At Thomann listed price is 4999€. But at this point (no available yet), the exact price is irrelevant. Except, it's an high end keyboard: feature- and price wise.

Kudos to Sokratis for showing some of Event features before official launch. I don't understand italian language and so it's hard for me to make some conclusions from videos, though. That is, I can recognize there is "a lot" in Event, but I still don't have the whole picture of it.
As Jeff said, we need to wait until product comes to owners hands. And hopefully, at that time, we will get more info (reviews, impressions, comparisons, etc.) than that's the case for Korg Pa5X.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan,

On YT I saw the Korg Pa5X's " grand update " has been started recently. 
Hopefully there will be no important bugs for the new owners after that update.

Maybe Rikki ( from Australia ) can tell us more about that famous update.
She is a proud owner of the PA5X/88.

Enjoy your weekend, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

At Thomann listed price is 4999€. But at this point (no available yet), the exact price is irrelevant. Except, it's an high end keyboard: feature- and price wise.

Just to compare prices for TOTL arrangers at Thomann website today 17 Dec 2022:
Genos: 4.736,31 €    Korg PA5X-76: 5.032,74 €   Ketron Event: 5.537,92 €
My guess is that a new Genos version, if it was a reality, would be listed way above 5k €

Anyway, what matter, is the price we really have to pay when deal settled.
That usually differ a lot regarded to where in the world we live and from where and who we buy.....

[ckobu]

In addition to the price, availability is perhaps more important at the moment. 


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[raimondsgr]

Hi from a new member here!

This looks like a great product, but those in the know could clarify the following. Does it still have the launchpad functionality found on the SD90, SD9 and SD60?

Best regards,
Ray

[Jeff Hollande]

In addition to the price, availability is perhaps more important at the moment. 

For the time being Yamaha's Genos has the lowest enduser selling price yet.
Availability : only 1 week.


Best regards, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

For the time being Yamaha's Genos has the lowest enduser selling price yet.
Availability : only 1 week.

That's quite natural, it's been for sale for some years now, and Genos is still in stock ...
Maybe slow sales now, and they have to get rid of the items in stock before launch any new model? 🤔😉😁

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Jonny :

It would be an unforgettable X-Mas and New Year's present if Yamaha should announce a new high end arranger before the end of 2022.

Best wishes, JH

[Henni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Y-XY-_09A    "The style is in 100% midi style   I always using only the factory sounds, while I creating styles. This style is also made only by the internal sounds of the EVENT. So this is a song style, what I named it to: "Wicked Beat""

https://youtu.be/lo86X2DJOOg

https://youtu.be/obuhK2K4dCY       "Very cool. Really.  Is it audio style?  Real chords?   No, it is not. This is a fully midi style include the drum tracks too. I used only one track for live guitar"

This product has NO EQUAL!!!

[BogdanH]

ok.. about 1st and 3rd video (made by "alma tom").. I will only believe that's hand made style, if I see him playing (plus showing/playing separate tracks). Until then, it's a fake in my eyes.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

The Event seems to be a very nice keyboard with a great sound.

If everything goes well my dealer will receive his first Event during the second half of January 2023.

Early February 2023 the public can play this new keyboard and
I hope their first impressions and comments will be shown on the internet.
I am looking forward to watching these video's first before jumping to any conclusion.

Plse keep in mind this keyboard is very expensive ( approx. Euro
5.000,- -) ! No speakers etc.
A lot of money for a simple, old guy like me ...😛.

JH

[Henni]

ok.. about 1st and 3rd video (made by "alma tom").. I will only believe that's hand made style, if I see him playing (plus showing/playing separate tracks). Until then, it's a fake in my eyes.

Bogdan

Yes, I guess Sokratis' style is also "fake". New suggested marketing slogan for the Event: TO GOOD TO BE TRUE...

As soon as finances allow, I'll first have a new Event and shortly after a new Genos. That'll keep me satisfied & occupied..

[BogdanH]

Yes, I guess Sokratis' style is also "fake"....

I haven't mentioned Sokratis's videos, so please, don't misuse my words.

Bogdan

[Henni]

Well, all the styles in question are in the same league & demonstrate just what could be achieved. Having played around with BIAB, I am not surprised at all. Soon other manufacturers will follow in using this concept. Mixing audio & midi allows one to have the best of both worlds.

Imagine the custom styles that will soon become available as new users come to full grips with this new product.

What amaze me even more is how clean the vocals could be extracted from these songs!

[Sokratis1974]

Well.
Alma Tom (Thomas) is a friend of mine, and he is a good and talented musician as well as a very good programmer (style and sounds) and I think it is evident in how good he is from the full midi style he made at the Event called " Sultan of Beat" in the video Henni attached above. He is also a very good singer.
Here Thomas in two older Ketron SD9 videos
https://youtu.be/fgr6xuyvPGE
https://youtu.be/SptywBg-0Ww
So, Thomas, like me, worked on the development of the Event longer than I did. I joined the project in July 2021 (the project had started quite some time ago) and Thomas was already there and that is why he has the Event (as well as me.)
I will give some information only about the fact that the authenticity of the video I uploaded (EPIC ROCK) is being questioned. Let me also remind again that I didn't attach this video in here, but Henni did. This is important so that it is not considered that I am promoting my work or myself in here.
As well as reminding (again) that I did not open this topic of discussion.
So, to the Event to have a full Real Chord (Stereo audio Stem) in each style we don't need to do anything other than a simple copy/paste to the Event SSD and the USER MODELING/REAL CHORD folder.
For you to understand how it works, I am attaching a template from my Real Chord EPIC_ROCK video.
https://app.box.com/s/4wmrjsn971kn62vgediadtpdq58se3u7
In this case because it was mainly an "experimental style" I have made only Major and Minor versions for the time being.
«When it's done, I'll upload it again in a demo video».
However, in Event and in Real Chord (audio) we can construct up to 13 different chords (7, m7, 6, m6, sus, dim etc.)
So, the great thing here is that in every different chord there is another wav file which means that if we put our imaginations to work creatively, we can achieve a very high level of realism.
The number 130 in the name of each folder indicates the original tempo bpm at which it was recorded so that the system knows the speed to automatically synchronize it with the midi clock.
In each variation we can have a different Real Chord.
The method used is a Time Stretch so we understand that there is some limitation here as far as Real Chords are concerned to be tolerable listening mainly at lower bpm.
The tolerable range we usually have (depending on the audio content) is around -20bpm from the original tempo.
However, some efforts are already being made by the company to improve this algorithm even more.
Of course, from the factory the Event comes with a huge ready-made Real Chord palette which contains a lot of options with acoustic and electric guitars to whole music takes (mainly Country) which of course follow the chords which are impressive.
So, download my file and see how the audio chords are organized that in my case I have made with the Cubase 12 and some Spitfire Audio VST Instruments.
In this way the Event system knows the original speed so automatically after we open it and select it in any variation it is directly synchronized with the midi clock without any additional process. Just copy/paste in USER MODELING/REAL CHORD folder.
I should also say that in the same way, i.e., with a simple copy and paste, we can also copy midi files in the Modeling folder and simply open them in any variation we want, where automatically and without any other processing the midi file follows the chords of the style.
I also recently made a video about Ketron's new "MIDI" innovation called: MULTICHORDS and MULTIBASS.
Watch the video https://youtu.be/oGppdIbencU
P.S In this time I also appear in the video
Thanks

[terryB]

Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 

Cheers

[Henni]

Hi terryB,

It's even easier - simply don't follow or read the topics of no interest to you, in this case only one topic. Same as I also do not read EVERY article in the newspaper although I still purchase it.

All the best,

Henni

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Hennie :

I understand what you are saying.

On the other hand all of us have to respect and accept this forum is a Yamaha forum.
Not all members of this forum do agree all competitor's details are to be shown here. IMHO they are right.

I am sure Sokratis will agree.
Perhaps Sokratis is willing to tell us where we can find the Event's forum ( and/or website ) where all Event's information can/will be found for all those who are interested. 

Best regards, JH

[BogdanH]

Hello Sokratis,
Thank you a lot for taking the effort for further explanation, which made me to better understand how things work on Event. Yes, you can call me sceptic or whatever... but to believe, I just need to understand things. The way Event works (in style creation) seems to be very different compared to Yamaha and that makes the whole thing "unbelievable".
I have seen too many great demos in past (also for Yamaha keyboards), but later it turned out, that not everything that was presented, can actually be created on keyboard itself. What I'm saying is, in my opinion, keyboard shouldn't be advertised for something that requires external (3rd party) software.
I can't afford TOTL keyboard like Event. However I'm always interested on latest innovations, by hoping that these innovations will one day be implemented in more affordable keyboards.

Bogdan

[DerekA]

If I'm following this properly, then what you are saying is that in effect each chord can have its own pattern within the part. So while on Yamaha you define one pattern per style part / variation, and it transposes according to the chord, the Ketron can use a selection of different patterns.

Could be interesting - but could also be overused if you're not careful

[maartenb]

Is there such a thing as a Ketron forum where we could read about the attributes of their keyboards, rather than a Yamaha keyboard dedicated forum 

Not to put oil on the fire, and with all due respect, but I don't understand your and some others problem with this thread.

Newly released keyboards of other brands give a peek in the possible Yamaha keyboard future. I am very grateful to Sokratis1974 for all the time and effort he puts in posting long, detailed information here, answering our questions and making videos.

The whole Event discussion is neatly isolated in one (1) thread and can be easily skipped if you're not interested.

Do you really want me to go create an account on a Ketron forum, because I can't discuss the technology of this keyboard on my beloved PSR Tutorial forum with the people I know? I hope not.


Maarten