New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[Henni]

+1

Totally useless YouTube video, Henni. Specs only, no playing. Waste of time.

Next time you place a link to a video, please include a small summary of the video.


Maarten

Unfortunately not much is available on the Event for now. I am seriously searching the net for more info, demos etc. & really there is very little to be found. I am merely posting the bits & drabs that I DO find however.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Sokratis  :

Thank you for your very interesting information.

BTW, is the English Event Manual already available on the internet ?

Plse advise.
Thanks and best regards, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Sokratis  :

Thank you for your very interesting information.

BTW, is the English Event manual already available on the internet ?

Plse advise.
Thanks and best regards, JH

Unfortunately not yet.
But I think it's a matter of days until the company upload it on the site them.
Οnly one poster has been uploaded
https://www.ketron.it/images/ketron/Event/KETRON%20EVENT%20INGLESE.pdf

[rphillipchuk]

Incredible creativity with almost no midi programming knowledge required.

Through Style Modeling (more on this later) and combining Audio and Midi Loops we build a style exactly as we want and without the slightest need to edit.

We simply choose in each variation what we want it to contain, with the possibility in each different variation to have completely different options (in everything), even in the mix, fx, etc.

I think that this is extremely important because the term "Style Modeling" is so vague. But if I can just "copy & Paste" ( think simple ) to change the style a style , is exactly what I am looking for.

It all comes down to the number of options available.

As an extreme example, if I select a "Pop" style, can I change all the elements to a "Country" style just by copy & paste ? 

If so, is this done in real time ?  While the style is playing, am I able to hear the changes immediately ?

RonP

[Sokratis1974]

I think that this is extremely important because the term "Style Modeling" is so vague. But if I can just "copy & Paste" ( think simple ) to change the style a style , is exactly what I am looking for.

It all comes down to the number of options available.

As an extreme example, if I select a "Pop" style, can I change all the elements to a "Country" style just by copy & paste ? 

If so, is this done in real time ?  While the style is playing, am I able to hear the changes immediately ?

RonP

No.
Copy & paste refers to the new user elements we add to the Modeling library palette, and these can be either Real Drum (audio), Real Bass (audio), Real Chord (audio) and any midi file we want if it is one channel and which contain our own rhythmic patterns from Piano, El. Pianos, Guitars, Pad, Strings, Synth Arpeggio's, and anything else we want.
After that in each variation and in each channel to activate them, we simply open the preset or user Modeling library and, in each channel, we add or change elements to essentially assemble a new style.
Of course, there is a huge preset Modeling palette very well programmed that frankly a user will rarely need anything beyond them unless they live in countries like Greece, Turkey, Balkan, or Arab countries where they will have to create their own separate palette for some style.
However, beyond all this, one can add or configure anything they want with the Classic midi programming either onboard or through a computer.
As for your question if these can be done in Real Time while playing in some style the answer is a clear YES!!
But in order not to confuse you more I would like you to wait a bit and I have promised you a special video for this excellent element!
Thanks!

[Duffy]

Thanks for that Sokratis.
The event is sounding better and better to me and I appreciate any info you pass on. I realise that their is a limit to what you can tell us.
The COPY & Paste feature is one of the things which the Genos has been so badly needing and sounds similar to the Technics KN7000 version plus  a big modelling palette too.
A big selling point for Ketron

The main problem for Ketron now is going to be their lack of dealerships.
I have bought Solton / Ketron for years but their is no way to part exchange your instrument if their is no proper dealers and showrooms.
I have wanted to upgrade for some time but they will not do part exchange and I don't want the hassle of private selling to get rid of the things I have.
I just wish all these companies would take a bit more notice of what their customers tell them.

[EileenL]

On Genos we do have the style assembly function and is very easy and quick to use.
Taking parts from other styles and creating your own choices is fun. Then also you have the grove Function which gives a different feel to a style.

[Sokratis1974]

On Genos we do have the style assembly function and is very easy and quick to use.
Taking parts from other styles and creating your own choices is fun. Then also you have the grove Function which gives a different feel to a style.

Yes you are right.
However the Style Modeling of Ketron is much more different and much more creativity and of course don't need any Style Creator like Yamaha.

[ton37]

On Genos we do have the style assembly function and is very easy and quick to use.
Taking parts from other styles and creating your own choices is fun. Then also you have the grove Function which gives a different feel to a style.

Of course Yamaha has a 'style assembly' function, but it makes little sense to mention it, without being able to compare it 1:1 with the Ketron Event. That will probably be possible in the short term? Only then can you properly judge which works best, most creatively and easiest. I don't find the style-assembly function of Yamaha very fascinating. You have to search a lot if you want to find something suitable and then ... nah 

[Sokratis1974]

Ok.
I made you an audio clip (no video yet) so you can get a taste of what Ketron Style Modeling is all about.
Here I am working on a single variation and believe me this is a great surface sample to understand how deep the system is.
Here I make changes mainly to audio elements (Drums, Bass, Guitars).
Keep in mind that I am only working on one variation. Imagine that in each of them (the variations) there is the option for completely different options, mix etc.
But there are so many thousands of options that I could describe it to you for many days.
From 0:21 the changes start. At the end of the 5:24 clip you heard the original style again where I started.
It goes without saying that everything happens in Real Time.

https://app.box.com/s/2k05ujfetfek4raxrsl2m1067tb47ew8

[Duffy]

Of course Yamaha has a 'style assembly' function, but it makes little sense to mention it, without being able to compare it 1:1 with the Ketron Event. That will probably be possible in the short term? Only then can you properly judge which works best, most creatively and easiest. I don't find the style-assembly function of Yamaha very fascinating. You have to search a lot if you want to find something suitable and then ... nah 

I see you have or have had in the past, a Technics KN7000.
If you have used it in depth, you will know that the Yamaha Style assembly function doesn't go anywhere near as deep as the Technics system did and it's also far harder to use.
As I also own a Ketron instrument, I can tell you that Ketron's system is also far quicker and far easier to use than Yamaha's Style assembly function.
The Genos is a good keyboard but, Style assembly is laughable along with the sound glitch when changing memories.

[ton37]

Yes @Duffy, that's what I meant with '..Nah', so we agree 

Ehh, kind of wow, @Sokratis1974  , thanks

[keynote]

Here is a just-released YouTube video (in Italiano) of the Ketron Event. He purchased a Ketron Event recently and he goes on to basically explain the ins and outs of the keyboard in his lengthy 2+ hour video. The link I will post will be at the time when he starts playing the Event but I actually listened from the beginning but skipped ahead at various points. As I said it's in Italian but I was able to translate it to English using Google's translate 'transcribe' feature. I have an Android Moto One 5G Ace with Android 11 OS. There is no closed captioning for the video so I resorted to using my cell phone. The translation came out pretty good but your mileage may vary depending on your phone and what operating system you have. Apple Siri might work also if you have an iPhone if, in fact, you're interested in hearing what he's talking about if you don't speak Italiano. Without further ado...

https://youtu.be/W9COE0QFkjU?t=2954

All the best,
Mike

[Sokratis1974]

Here is a just-released YouTube video (in Italiano) of the Ketron Event. He purchased a Ketron Event recently and he goes on to basically explain the ins and outs of the keyboard in his lengthy 2+ hour video. The link I will post will be at the time when he starts playing the Event but I actually listened from the beginning but skipped ahead at various points. As I said it's in Italian but I was able to translate it to English using Google's translate 'transcribe' feature. I have an Android Moto One 5G Ace with Android 11 OS. There is no closed captioning for the video so I resorted to using my cell phone. The translation came out pretty good but your mileage may vary depending on your phone and what operating system you have. Apple Siri might work also if you have an iPhone if, in fact, you're interested in hearing what he's talking about if you don't speak Italiano. Without further ado...

https://youtu.be/W9COE0QFkjU?t=2954

All the best,
Mike

Dear Mike.
This is Mattia Rigoni (Nico) who is an external partner of Ketron (like me) and therefore already has the Event (like me).
The instrument has not yet gone into mass production.
Only a few have been released which will be in some stores as a demo.
However, listening to it we can get a taste.
Later I will also prepare several demos and tutorials.
I haven't got them ready yet due to some technical issues of my own. But these will also be resolved soon.
Thanks

[mikf]

From what I can take from this it seems their style assembly function is streets ahead of the Yamaha, because you can make changes in real time while playing the full chord progression. Yamaha requires you to leave playing mode enter style creator mode, make changes, then return to hear how it might really sound with an actual song.
I imagine that this might not be a simple improvement for Yamaha to emulate, requiring  big changes to the overall system, possible patent minefields, etc.
But of course it also begs the question of how much this will matter to the average arranger buyer, who might never mess with style changes, and who has access to a massive library of Yamaha styles, and custom styles on the internet.
But to others who love to make their own style changes it might be a huge improvement.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

https://youtu.be/W9COE0QFkjU?t=2954

Wished this video was made in the English language. I do not speak Italian, a very nice language though.

Best wishes, JH

[BogdanH]

...
But of course it also begs the question of how much this will matter to the average arranger buyer, who might never mess with style changes, and who has access to a massive library of Yamaha styles, and custom styles on the internet.
...

As you mentioned, style creation can be quite confusing on Yamaha, and I think, that's also partially the reason why some don't "mess" with that.
However, I do agree that for many, basic editing (changing voices, tempo, etc.) is more than enough. And if that's the case, then existing collection of Yamaha styles is a hold back for many (and keeps them/us loyal to Yamaha). But I think, we quite limit ourselves by thinking that way. The thing is, other (brand) keyboards also have styles built-in: slow waltz, nice cha-cha, rock beat, mellow country, etc. etc -they all have them!
What I think many see as a benefit by owning Yamaha keyboard, is a fact that a lot of styles (packs) are available for free. But there's an old saying: everything is worth exactly as much we pay for that.

About Ketron Event... it looks really nice (one can't beat Italian design), but that's pretty much all. From users perspective, we actually know nothing about it. Yes, it sounds "nice", but so does PSR-SX if we pick the right voice for the melody.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Sokratis1974 :

My dealer said today the Event's exact date of delivery ( promised for December 2022 ) is unknown yet.

BTW, is there a big difference ( sounds, styles, features, etc. ) between the Audya5 and the Event or ... can one call it a " usual " upgrade ?
Your reply would be very much appreciated. Thanks !

Best wishes, JH

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Sokratis1974 :

My dealer said today the Event's exact date of delivery ( promised for December 2022 ) is unknown yet.

BTW, is there a big difference ( sounds, styles, features, etc. ) between the Audya5 and the Event or ... can one call it a " usual " upgrade ?
Your reply would be very much appreciated. Thanks !

Best wishes, JH

Of course.
As you may know I also own Audya (Audya 76 & Audya 5) and have worked with it since 2009 Of course and played with it from 2009 until 2018 when I bought the Genos.
Audya was and is my favorite instrument and I still have them (both) and they work great!
The reason I went to Genos was when I first saw that we could make user audio styles (via Audio Phraser which never worked properly) and the truth is that I always wanted to have a Yamaha arranger but that's another discussion
But let me answer your question.
So, the big difference between Audya and Event is not so much the sounds and styles but the fact that Event is much more (open) to user development to a truly amazing degree.
In other words, it provides so many amazing and unique functions especially in terms of styles that literally no midi programming knowledge is required to create a user style for your needs.
And I think that initially what one is interested in an arranger is the styles in function of course and having good sounds so that they (the sounds) work positively in the whole listening.
So, Ketron since the time of the excellent SD1 (I had that too and worked for almost a decade from 2000 to 2009) has always had very simple but very good sounds that one almost never needs anything more to play and sound great a Grand Piano, an Electric Piano (really very good) a Trumpet a Strings or whatever.
One is not going to find complex and elaborately designed sounds in Ketron, as is the case with Korg and Yamaha in many cases.
Of course, this is not a bad thing (the complex and elaborately designed sounds) because what interests the user is that these sounds perform as they should so that the musician can express himself comfortably through them.
So also here in the Event one will find very simple, but also in some cases intelligently designed sounds and really what impresses me in the Event are the really amazing ORGAN sounds where there is combination  of a very deep DIGITAL DRAWBAR and Sampled Organ of Real Organs (Hammond etc.) where the results are really amazing, although I am not an expert in ORGANS, but still I can have an opinion since I have instruments from all companies.
The question now is whether it is worth the upgrade from Audya to Event? Yes, it's worth it.
If someone had asked me a few years ago if it was worth upgrading from Audya to SD9 I would have clearly said NO.
The SD9/90/60 was never a worthy Audya replacement, and I never went ahead with the upgrade.
I had the SD9 in my studio for several months (on loan from a very good friend of mine) but I never considered it an instrument that would make me replace my old Audya.
So, I am given the opportunity to present you a video that I made and uploaded to YouTube yesterday and it is the first tutorial in a very long series that I am preparing and will be uploaded often.
So here you will see how through STYLE MODELING we can transform a style without a trace of programming and in this video, I only describe the Audio Parts and not the Midi which also work in the same way.
Watch it.
https://youtu.be/E8M-E7vZrLs
Thanks

[Jeff Hollande]

Thank you so much, Sokratis for answering my questions, creating and sharing this very interesting Event Video ! Very impressive.

Best regards, JH

[mikf]

Impressive. Not sure how much I would use this kind of capability, but it does seem like a step change in ease of style modification and making styles less repetitive in real time.

Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Sokratis :

I would be very grateful if you could show ( or tell ) how midi parts are created and how the final ( short ) midi file would sound like.
Only do it if it is possible for you, if you have time and if you feel like doing it. 
I do not want to force anything.

Thank you very much.
Best wishes, JH

[BogdanH]

...
So here you will see how through STYLE MODELING we can transform a style without a trace of programming...

I realized, that many in this forum don't necessary agree with my opinions and that's ok. What's more important to me is, to make clear, that it's never my intention just to criticize everything in a negative way. And when I express my wish or opinion, I'm aware that that might not be everyone else's wish.

What is see in this video is, how easy it's supposed to be replacing instruments/riffs, while playing the style (in any key, I assume). And even disco/funk isn't my kind of music, I can recognize,  that this really is a welcome feature compared to current Yamaha.
But what I'm more interested (about 5000€ keyboard) is, how easy it is to make style from scratch. However, not for some random disco rhythm, which purpose is only to sound "cool". As example, some "real" well known music should be chosen, which would demonstrate how close to original we can get and how much work is needed for that.
What I'm saying is, if only some random rhythms are chosen (for sake to impress), then that's only "just another demo" for me.

Probably not related to this topic, but still... By looking at internet shops (in Europe), I have an impression that there's some "crisis" in arranger keyboard industry:
Korg -for latest Pa5x one needs to wait 3+ months, while midrange (Pa) series keyboards many times aren't even listed anymore.
Ketron -actual release of Event model is pretty much unknown and at least price wise, there are no midrange keyboards.
Yamaha -nothing new is going on here (having Genos in mind), although existing keyboards are available.

Bogdan

[Sokratis1974]

I realized, that many in this forum don't necessary agree with my opinions and that's ok. What's more important to me is, to make clear, that it's never my intention just to criticize everything in a negative way. And when I express my wish or opinion, I'm aware that that might not be everyone else's wish.

What is see in this video is, how easy it's supposed to be replacing instruments/riffs, while playing the style (in any key, I assume). And even disco/funk isn't my kind of music, I can recognize,  that this really is a welcome feature compared to current Yamaha.
But what I'm more interested (about 5000€ keyboard) is, how easy it is to make style from scratch. However, not for some random disco rhythm, which purpose is only to sound "cool". As example, some "real" well known music should be chosen, which would demonstrate how close to original we can get and how much work is needed for that.
What I'm saying is, if only some random rhythms are chosen (for sake to impress), then that's only "just another demo" for me.

Probably not related to this topic, but still... By looking at internet shops (in Europe), I have an impression that there's some "crisis" in arranger keyboard industry:
Korg -for latest Pa5x one needs to wait 3+ months, while midrange (Pa) series keyboards many times aren't even listed anymore.
Ketron -actual release of Event model is pretty much unknown and at least price wise, there are no midrange keyboards.
Yamaha -nothing new is going on here (having Genos in mind), although existing keyboards are available.

Bogdan

So..
If you know how to programming a style on a Yamaha Arranger I would tell you that here too the way above all when we work through someone DAW (Cubase, Reaper, Logic etc) it's almost the same.
We simply rename the style file from .KST to .MID and is ready for import as midi file and editing own daw.
After completing the process we export again as a midifile (0) from the daw and again simply rename from .MID to .KST.
That's all.
I must also say that and the onboard STYLE EDIT that it has is particularly easy to use with the only drawback that it does not have event edits such as Genos or any Korg Pa Series.

[Sokratis1974]

Hey Sokratis :

I would be very grateful if you could show ( or tell ) how midi parts are created and how the final ( short ) midi file would sound like.
Only do it if it is possible for you, if you have time and if you feel like doing it. 
I do not want to force anything.

Thank you very much.
Best wishes, JH

This will come in future tutorials

[EileenL]

This demo was fine if all you want to do is play dance music but a lot of us especially home players who are the ones who buy these keyboards a lot, would not want to play this type of music. We sometimes find the styles are to busy for the melody lines  so cut them back a little. I will defiantly be sticking to my Genos as there are hundreds of styles available to use and many are song specific. I wonder how you have time to play a descent Melody when you are busy changing all the style parts.

[BogdanH]

hi Eileen,
That's exactly what I wanted to say in my previous post, when I mentioned that "real" music should be used. I'm aware that (very) young people do listen to disco/funk/whatever, or they just don't care as long there's enough "boom" (and melody is many times irrelevant). But then, at such parties, DJ usually don't use arranger keyboard at all.
Even many of us in this forum are in "mature" age, that doesn't mean we play "old-fashion" obsolete music. Actually I'm sure, that younger audience is very much interested in "classic" dance music we play... to dance & sway on rhythms of songs they're familiar with.

[Jeff Hollande]

IMHO Sokratis' only intention was to show us ( in this video ) how the Event's system is working if a player wants to change the existing styles parts, correct ?

JH

[Sokratis1974]

hi Eileen,
That's exactly what I wanted to say in my previous post, when I mentioned that "real" music should be used. I'm aware that (very) young people do listen to disco/funk/whatever, or they just don't care as long there's enough "boom" (and melody is many times irrelevant). But then, at such parties, DJ usually don't use arranger keyboard at all.
Even many of us in this forum are in "mature" age, that doesn't mean we play "old-fashion" obsolete music. Actually I'm sure, that younger audience is very much interested in "Classic" dance music we play... to dance & sway on rhythms of songs they're familiar with.

This specific technique (Style Modeling) is not only used in DANCE Styles but there is also an Audio and Midi Palette for many categories (Ballads, Pop, Country, Jazz, Rock etc.)
But I would say it's better to close the issue of the Event here because I'm also starting to feel uncomfortable since this is a Yamaha Forum and not Ketron.
So please don't ask me any more questions about the Event here.
If anyone would like more information, please contact me personally.
Thank you very much.

[Lee Batchelor]

This demo was fine if all you want to do is play dance music but a lot of us especially home players who are the ones who buy these keyboards a lot, would not want to play this type of music. We sometimes find the styles are to busy for the melody lines  so cut them back a little. I will defiantly be sticking to my Genos as there are hundreds of styles available to use and many are song specific. I wonder how you have time to play a descent Melody when you are busy changing all the style parts.

I couldn't agree more, Eileen. I estimate 99% of Genos or other arranger users are still interested in playing "human music." It annoys me to no end when any company demos their new keyboard using Funk, Rap, or Dance styles to entice me into buying one. With all due respect to those musicians, I find it takes FAR more talent to play the tunes we were all raised with than a bunch of repetitive noise that hinges itself on the technical prowess of the engineers who created those styles rather than, the musical talent of the player.

Once you've mastered those styles, there seems to be little room for expansion. You've conquered the genre. Learning to play Blues and then taking on the Ray Charles or Oscar Peterson styles requires one to live about 200 years to even scratch the surface - and that's just two artists!