New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Agreed however Yamaha includes several "hints" about recording to a DAW. There's even a few MIDI patch screens that are very poorly documented. The Genos is touted as a pro-level keyboard, which implies that recording to a DAW is possible. Yes, it is possible but very convoluted. If their target market is the home player, then remove all documentation about recording to a DAW. It's terribly misleading. If they want to include a section on recording to a DAW, then write the darn thing properly! Just because the target market is the home player doesn't mean the pro players don't exist. Yamaha needs to do it right or go home!

One more thing...the documentation for onboard MIDI recording "assumes" an advanced level of MIDI knowledge. It is not written to a novice or intermediate audience. Don't these people count or is MIDI recording just for the pro-level folks? This too needs to be cleaned up for a significant percentage of their target audience. Of course, some novice audiences will figure it out but a golden rule in technical writing is, "Never force your audience to fill in the blanks. Do not assume they know everything."

Edit 1
Steinberg or any of the other DAW manufacturers are just as much to blame. They assume everyone uses a simple MIDI controller that triggers VST instruments. They need to include a chapter on how to record arranger keyboards and use the top level arrangers as examples - even a patch file that pre-configures the DAW for the Genos or whatever arranger you're using. Heck, there aren't that many.

Edit 2
I know it's been mentioned that the easiest way to record to a DAW is to just record everything in the Genos MIDI section, upload that file to Cubase, and then unpack the tracks. This works, however, assigning Genos voices to those individual tracks is very confusing and often doesn't work. Sometimes you have to reload Cubase or restart the Genos because the drum snares were triggering the piano!! We need clear, well written documentation and there is none.

Sorry for wandering way off track!

Hi Lee
Record your song in Genos Sequencer.
Import into Cubase.
Set the inspector up In and outs  (make sure Genos information is selected in Studio manager)

EDIT ALL TRACKS TO TIGHTEN AND SPLIT THE DRUM TRACKS TO SEPARATE TRACKS.

Record all tracks.

If you make program changes when playing and recording song on Genos  it shows on the imported tracks in Cubase.
What i do is then cut the instrument changes on Track one to three,  which is right 1,2 and 3  and put the different instruments sections on different tracks.
Once all done and named and coloured  gain stage in mixer and then you are on your way.
When i set the inspector up for each track i have had No Input and Yamaha Genos  workstation 1
Now i can have All Midi and Yamaha Genos workstation. I do not know whether there is really any difference in that now.
Before if i had all midi over the Genos workstation in the inspector i would get bells and whistles if i stopped and started in the middle of editing  Now i do not get that.
Steinberg seem to have improved the midi section. Up to now the mid notes are staying on grid , as they kept creeping forward before last update. That was annoying when you come back to a song for editing at a later stage.
Main thing today is have a good fast computer.


All the best
john         

[Sokratis1974]

Hi

I like one comment when one guy was demonstrating disco music on the ketron


" So the keyboard plays itself "
What else can it do??

Theoretically, an airplane can go the route we want on its own, but if there is no pilot to chart a course and be in control, nothing happens.. That's the only thing that's certain.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

If one has the intention to buy a new high end arranger keyboard in 2023 ( like me e.g. ), it will not be easy now to make the right choice.

All three arrangers ( Pa5X, Event and the Genos2 ) are all different and professional arranger keyboards, having their pros and cons, as usual, IMO.
I have learned here not to be biased and ... I can only buy one. 

My dealer agreed I can play and try all of them intensely as long as I need to before making any decision.
All seem to be very good instruments and almost equally priced.
A big challenge for me. All are expensive toys though. 

Best regards, JH

[EileenL]

Well Jeff,
  I think a lot of people will stick with what they know as many do not want to spend lots of time learning a new operating system. They want to get back playing on their Yamaha's as they know they will always be reliable and do what they are used to.

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Lee
Record your song in Genos Sequencer.
Import into Cubase.
Set the inspector up In and outs  (make sure Genos information is selected in Studio manager)
EDIT ALL TRACKS TO TIGHTEN AND SPLIT THE DRUM TRACKS TO SEPARATE TRACKS.
Record all tracks.
If you make program changes when playing and recording song on Genos  it shows on the imported tracks in Cubase.
What i do is then cut the instrument changes on Track one to three,  which is right 1,2 and 3  and put the different instruments sections on different tracks.
Once all done and named and colored  gain stage in mixer and then you are on your way.
When i set the inspector up for each track i have had No Input and Yamaha Genos  workstation 1
Now i can have All Midi and Yamaha Genos workstation. I do not know whether there is really any difference in that now.
Before if i had all midi over the Genos workstation in the inspector i would get bells and whistles if i stopped and started in the middle of editing  Now i do not get that.
Steinberg seem to have improved the midi section. Up to now the mid notes are staying on grid , as they kept creeping forward before last update. That was annoying when you come back to a song for editing at a later stage.
Main thing today is have a good fast computer.

Thanks for that explanation, John. Computing power is not an issue for me. If and when I get my registration issue worked out, I may take a deep dive back into recording 😉!

[Jeff Hollande]

You made a very good and logical point, Eileen : a new operating system might be an important issue.

I am used to work with Windows and Mac e.g. ( My desk computer = Windows, my laptop and ipad = Mac ).
Two different operating systems.
Both systems have their advantages and disadvantanges, depending on the user's needs and applications.

As far as I remember this is the first time in the arranger history 3 different manufactures are launching high end arrangers, almost simultaneously ( assuming the Genos2 will be available for sale in 2023 ).

I agree with you Yamaha's arrangers are very reliable instruments.
My Tyros4 e.g., never let me down.

But now it might be the right moment to compare all arrangers intensely despite their differences.

All the best, JH

[Gunnar Jonny]

If one has the intention to buy a new high end arranger keyboard in 2023 ( like me e.g. ), it will not be easy now to make the right choice.

The right choice will always be to choose the model that suits your personal needs and taste. The 3 top of the line brands and models are in fact all good stuff. 👍
Well, at least as long as it don't feel like cheep plastic fantastic made in China when try to handle and move it..... 😲😁😁😁

I've written to 🤶🎅and told them where to drop both PA5X-76 and Event when they take the World Trip this year. The chimney top is at GPS position xxNxxExxSxxW. 😉

[J. Larry]

So much has been posted about the apparent "cheapened" appearance and feel of recent Yamaha arrangers.  Several year ago, I took a tour of the Peavey instrument plant.  They showed me, among other things, the tall scaffold, where they dropped new amps to the concrete below to see what damaged ensued.  Wonder is Yamaha would do such a thing with the Genos?

[Lee Batchelor]

Not likely, Larry. I have seen keyboards get knocked off stands by idiotic drunks. I've also seen cheaper keyboard stands fail, resulting in a $4,000 synth or arranger on the floor. I would think Yamaha may conduct similar experiments. If they did with the Genos, I suspect it probably held up but had a few marks and dings.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I suggest for  Jeff to get the Yamaha Mini Genos and The Ketron expander when it comes out.
Great idea for Genos owners is to get the Ketron Expander and have the best of both worlds.
Just an idea Not a bad one at that.!!
Just to upset the apple cart!!!

Anyone for a Bontempi??

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi John :

Are you going to buy the Ketron Event Module ? 😀
JH

[EileenL]

Are you going to buy one Jeff.

[travlin-easy]

I've been a musical entertainer since I was 17 years old and had to retire at age 78 because of health issues. I have owned a dozen guitars, and an equal number of arranger keyboards. I played the Ketron at the piano store where DanO worked several years ago, and to me, it always sounded thin in comparison to the Roland, Korg and Yamaha arrangers. The drums were loud, harsh, and somewhat realistic, especially when I remember the days of performing with a 5-piece band and the drummer slammed those rim shots so hard he would break at least one drum stick every night we played.

The best grand piano sound I heard came from Roland, while the absolute best guitar and sax sounds came from Yamaha - NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! Don Mason, who unfortunately passed last year, agreed with me on the voices. Additionally, he and I agreed that dead time between songs should not be more than 2 or 3 seconds at most, otherwise you would quickly watch your dancing crowd head for the seats. With the Yamaha, using features such as registrations and the Music Finder Directory, I was able to keep my dead time down to under a second. I don't believe you can do this with any Ketron product I seen in the past decade.

As for weight, again, I'll stick with Yamaha. I posted a video on You Tube a few years ago of me setting up  for an assisted living facility job. Setup time was just under 7 minutes, and the heaviest piece of equipment was my Yamaha PSR-S-950 - just 23 pounds. For amps, I switched to Bose L1 Compacts and never looked back - they were fantastic!

Good luck,

Gary

[Jeff Hollande]

John was joking and so was I, Eileen.

Due to my age ( 75 ) and my health issues I cannot answer your question now, sorry.

Time will tell whether or not I ever will upgrade.

JH

[EileenL]

Yes Jeff I saw John's reference to Bontempi. I will be 87 next year but I am still looking forward to a New Genos.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Eileen :

I am so glad to hear ( for you and all of us ) you are still in a very good physical and mental condition at 86 ! Wonderful !

I had a cerebral infarction in December 2020. A lot of habits have been changed in my daily normal life.
I do not know whether a new arranger keyboard is still intended for me. Who knows ?

Best wishes, JH


   

[BogdanH]

...
I do not know whether a new arranger keyboard is still intended for me. Who knows ?

I would say, as long you wish one, it is intended. But does it make sense?.. well, who cares 

Bogdan

[usaraiya]

...
I do not know whether a new arranger keyboard is still intended for me. Who knows?

Best wishes, JH

Jeff,
If the KB is available and you want it, I would say, "Go for it," because if you don't, someone else will!


Uday

[rphillipchuk]

I will be pulling the plug on the Ketron "Event" as soon as I am able to purchase from Long & McQuades .   

RonP

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Stay with Eileen
Wait for the next Genos!!
Travlin Easy is 100% right in saying that the Genos Saxes and guitars outweigh every other keyboard.
As much as i like to like the Korg Pax5 something about it that it does not live up to the Genos Standard.
The Ketron  sounds great but have only seen You Tube video's.
Nothing much about it from stores in the UK and how compatible it is with midi and daws.
The more you delve into the Genos , the more you will find.
At the moment i have a forward slash missing on the start button and the 1 and 2 registration buttons are thnner looking than the rest of the numbers , other than that it still looks brand new.
Genos integrates well for me with Cubase now and i cannot fault it.



All the Best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Theoretically, an airplane can go the route we want on its own, but if there is no pilot to chart a course and be in control, nothing happens.. That's the only thing that's certain.

What about an Irish pilot?

[Oxford1035]

What about an Irish pilot?

I think you'll find they fly Air Fungus John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Oxford

I bet we have confused our overseas friends

[tyrosman]

Hi Oxford

I bet we have confused our overseas friends

i think we might have John Genos throwe,s every thing out the window Yamaha is Better by Far

[usaraiya]

Here are some more official details about the EVENT:

https://www.ajamsonic.com/ketronevent.htm

[Henni]

KETRON EVENT VS YAMAHA GENOS V.2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrWokTi2gCM

[BogdanH]

KETRON EVENT VS YAMAHA GENOS V.2

-such comparisons are totally useless (and deceiving at that):
1st Why?
We can get all that data from specifications.
2nd Why?
Number of styles (for example) means nothing. What I'm interested on is, the quality of the styles, how many actually different there are, and how flexible (for editing) they are.

I realized, that many romanian youtubers provide (comparison) videos without commenting -is just a waste of time watching.

Just my opinion,
Bogdan

[maartenb]

+1

Totally useless YouTube video, Henni. Specs only, no playing. Waste of time.

Next time you place a link to a video, please include a small summary of the video.


Maarten

[maartenb]

I bet we have confused our overseas friends

And your continental friends as well. 


Maarten

[Sokratis1974]

-such comparisons are totally useless (and deceiving at that):
1st Why?
We can get all that data from specifications.
2nd Why?
Number of styles (for example) means nothing. What I'm interested on is, the quality of the styles, how many actually different there are, and how flexible (for editing) they are.

I realized, that many romanian youtubers provide (comparison) videos without commenting -is just a waste of time watching.

Just my opinion,
Bogdan

You are right.
These comparisons cannot be objective because to be one would have to have experience with both instruments to draw a conclusion.
So, as you may know, I have here in my studio both the Genos and the Event (since the beginning of last August) after I worked for more than a year on it (the Event).
I also had the opportunity to compare the Pa5x with the Event and with the Genos since I had it in my studio for a month. But that is another discussion.
I'm taking this opportunity to voice an opinion now that the Event is almost out on the market.

Points in which Genos excels are, in my opinion, these:
1) Larger screen 9 inches compared to 7 inches of the Event.

2) 3GB RAM vs Event's 1GB RAM

3) Larger illuminated switches which require somewhat less pressure than the Event.

4) Super Articulations (of course only factory) 3 switches vs one of the Event but in the Event, it is also a User Articulation and not only a factory.

5) There are no serious limitations regarding samples, multisamples, velocity layers, etc.
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------
Points in which the Event excels (always in my opinion but also through the direct comparison since I have both models).

1) Incredible creativity with almost no midi programming knowledge required.
Through Style Modeling (more on this later) and combining Audio and Midi Loops we build a style exactly as we want and without the slightest need to edit.
We simply choose in each variation what we want it to contain, with the possibility in each different variation to have completely different options (in everything), even in the mix, fx, etc.
Unfortunately, in the area of creativity if I had to rate Genos then with an excellent 10, I would put a 3 and maybe even that was too much.

2) No kind of processing (Time Sliced, etc.) is required to import user audio data (Real Drum, Real Bass, Real Chord), since all that is needed is to copy them to a specific point on the SSD with a specific name and folder per audio files.
The same applies to midi files.
Just copy/paste (also here) in a specific folder and now they will be available in every style.

3) Onboard Sampler with full editor and creation of new sound or Drum kit.

4) Multichord.
An innovation by Ketron (where I have also taken part in the implementation of this patent) with the possibility of having up to 12 different midi files per musical scale (Maj, Min, M7, min7 etc.) and not just 1 midi file per different scale.

5) Hardware EFX Control.
Another innovation that we meet at the Event (where we meet here for the first time in an Arranger Keyboard) are the external control switches of the EFX. So, in Real Time we can, in addition to activating an EFX or to change the live EFX algorithm, also have control over e.g. the Delay time, the length of the Reverb, or the Brilliance of the sound we are playing at that moment. Without complicated procedures, or other tedious software procedures which are usually deterrent in a live performance we just choose EFX and have the control in Real Time.

Now to the question of which one sounds better?
There is no specific answer here.
Both (Genos & Event) sound equally great!!
If you ask me which of the two, do I prefer?
Unfortunately, I don't have an answer here either because there is something different from that I love.
Surely a combination of both instruments in a live would be something exciting!!
I look forward to trying them both together as soon as possible (in a live performance).