Keeping My Genos Keyboard

[Mike2]

After months of feedback from everyone regarding a new Genos 2, I have decided at 73 yrs. old that I will not upgrade to the next Yamaha Genos 2, or whatever it is called. Not because I don't enjoy the next upgrade, to the next Yamaha Genos 2.  I just started laying the one I have , the Genos 1, I guess they can call it, and I have zeroed in on everything this keyboard offers, and have found out, that this keyboard that I now owned, I haven't discovered 75% of what this keyboard has to offer. My point being, what will the next Genos have to offer besides, more advanced technology, that I can't personally discover, if with the Genos I now have, there are so many undiscoverd sounds, rhythms, and and so may more joys, that i can't see now with what I have.

[BogdanH]

Very wise way of thinking, Mike.
Once we realize, that keyboard that we have, offers more than we are capable to exploit, it just makes no sense to buy a newer one. Still, we do that sometimes (if we can afford). There might be "justified" reasons for that, though. It can be a single feature, that our current keyboard doesn't have and after a while, we miss that feature every time when playing. That feature might not be that important to others, but it is for us. And so, even we don't use 75% of features on existing keyboard, we start looking for "better" one. And after we make a switch, it happens quite often, that we realize, that particular feature was more a wish than need -an excuse to buy a new shiny keyboard. On the other hand, if we make the right decision by buying new keyboard, it might open new doors for our "creativity". And most important: we enjoy using it -and that's what matters most.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[EileenL]

Well at 86 I am beginning to think the same. Genos has everything you need to play lovely music. So many lovely sound combinations can be made and some lovely backing styles to go with it. I will wait until I see one to finely decide.

[mikf]

Actually that's normal regardless of age. Model to model the changes are often quite incremental, and most people would not feel a strong need to spend the money to upgrade - except for the fun of a new toy if they have the money to burn .
As I have said many times, if Yamaha had to depend on existing Genos owners upgrading every model they would probably not do very well. Most sales are always going to come from completely new buyers, people with much older models, or much lower spec models who feel the time has come to step up a bunch.
From that standpoint this forum can be misleading, because there are some real expert users here who know and use every feature, and can be critical of some features they feel are missing, or dont work well. But that is not the case for the average arranger buyer.
Mike

[Toril S]

I think the same. Genos is superb.

[Jeff Hollande]

I fully understand why ( many ) players have absolutely no intention to upgrade.

Money or the latest technology are not always the reason why musicians prefer to keep their music instrument.

When a musician is very happy with her/his instrument why should she/he kill a winning horse ?

Have fun !


JH

[JohnS]

I have had my Tyros 5 for quite a few years and I am happy with it.

I recently bought a Tyros 4 Special Edition for our holiday home.

The difference between these two keyboards is incremental, and when some owners say that the Tyros4 was the better keyboard, I won't argue.

I am perfectly happy with my keyboards, and the fact that the high cost of exchanging for a Genos is still in my pocket.

[Dutchman]

I completely agree, I'm (only) 56 but I don't have any intention of upgrading either, the Genos is awesome and just as many others I haven't found out the biggest portion of what it's capable of yet.
Although I think I held on a bit to long onto my previous keyboard, I got the Genos almost a year ago after playing my Psr3000 for 15 years, the difference was staggering to say the least!!

[Mike2]

Another thing for me, with all the upgrades I have done, with the Technics keyboards, all of them, and going from the Yamaha Tyros 5 to the Genos which was an amazing jump in technology. I can see improvement in technology and everything the keyboard will do for you, but I can't see how the voices will be so improved, I mean how much better can you make a sax sound or strings?  Yes I understand it will most likely be better, but won't the new Genos 2 owners be right back to where they are right now in a year or two, wishing for the next upgrade. I cannot afford for myself to upgrade, and spend that kind of money, for a few better voices, and rhythms and yes for those who are very professional players, the more technogy the better. In the end for me, it's all about playing. If i can improve myself with the Genos 1 that I have, that will be another jump for me, without cost.

[J. Larry]

But, for all the contented nay sayers, what if the next iteration of Genos presents some breakthrough features that no one has thought of, or imagined (yet), that will make it irresistible?

[ton37]

That's what I think too! (an SX900). And that's what I thought in all those years with the Technics 800, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 6000, 7000. Then with the Yamaha T5, the S770 and S975, the Genos. And the Sx900 is now again the last for me, right?? ^{What is wrong with me, do I need help or something?}

[Toril S]

If it can fly I will buy it😀

[Jeff Hollande]

But, for all the contented nay sayers, what if the next iteration of Genos presents some breakthrough features that no one has thought of, or imagined (yet), that will make it irresistible?

If the Genos2 will be an arranger keyboard that will surprise the entire keyboard world then it will become a commercial success, IMO.

JH

[mikf]

But, for all the contented nay sayers, what if the next iteration of Genos presents some breakthrough features that no one has thought of, or imagined (yet), that will make it irresistible?

I think this technology is at the plateau phase. It will continue to be refined, but breakthrough.... Not too likely.
Mike

[Mike2]

But will the breakthrough be worth 3 to $4000 or more to get that breakthrough. For me, I don't read music, and I love different styles to play with. Once again, how many more styles does one need? You still need to play the keyboard, and once again if I can
better myself with the Genos 1, this will most definitely give myself a breakthrough without any cost. I think many of us like myself, get bored to quickly with what we have. But one's decision to improve their keyboard is totally up to them. I have done it myself so many times.

[lmederos]

This is a subject that I've been pondering about.

I don't have a Genos ( I have an SX900 ), and although I do agree that I have barely scratched its capabilities, I am considering a second keyboard --- a synth, probably a MODX+ 7.  Not because the SX900 is insufficient for what it does, but to complement it. 

That would be the only reason I would consider any keyboard beyond the SX900.   

I did thoroughly appreciate the comments here, as it made me think through.

Thanks all!

[soundphase]

I think this technology is at the plateau phase. It will continue to be refined, but breakthrough.... Not too likely.
Mike

I personally find that a lot of VST sounds are far better than Genos sounds. But a sequencer on a computer is not an arranger. 
So for me, there is always a lot of room for sound improvement on Genos2 with bigger samples, better algorithms, more CPU, more RAMs, quicker disks ....

[Jeff Hollande]

I think this technology is at the plateau phase. It will continue to be refined, but breakthrough.... Not too likely.
Mike

If your expections will come true, Mike, I am wondering if there might be a chance Genos' owners will have the intention to upgrade ?
In my perception Yamaha will launch a new high end arranger that will beat the Korg PA5X.

Best wishes, JH

[Mike2]

I have no doubt that Yamaha will launch a new high end arranger keyboard. Better everything. But for me and many others on this forum, better doesn't always meet our expectations, like all these added features, that are rewarding to more advance players and musicians, but not necessary maybe most of us.  I never like to say never, but right now with reality being more of a concern at my age, and probably the first time in my 5 year ownership of this Genos, I have so much more to learn from what I have already paid for with this Genos.  Once again in no way am I discouraging upgrade, for I have done it many, many times myself.  I think maybe this time is not the answer for me to upgrade, for technology is getting way ahead of myself, and maybe with a genos 2, I would be further back...Just my opinion...

[usaraiya]

Jeff,

You are worried that Yamaha may lose its rightful place as holding the "throne" rather than enjoying the wonderful KBs that both Yamaha & Korg are producing.

The competition makes better KBs that all of us can enjoy. Yamaha's TOTL arranger is followed by an allegedly improved Korg arranger, and a KORG TOTL arranger is followed by a reportedly improved Yamaha arranger, both being a WIN-WIN situation for all of us who want to enjoy the best of both worlds, and what's wrong with that?

Now, it does not matter who sits on the throne, so to speak, as the products are what matters, and if one is happy with the Tyros 4, all this discussion is water under the bridge, as what works for you is REALLY what matters!

Just my 2 cents.



Uday

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Uday :

I agree with your kind words. Thank you !

Being a Yamaha follower/admirer for many years, I am always hoping Yamaha are showing something unique that keeps Yamaha's leading position.

And ... you are absolutely right, for the time being there is no reason for me to replace my lovely, new looking Tyros4.
It takes many years to discover all the applications and secrets of this arranger keyboard and ... I am still learning a lot.

I am also a frequent Yamaha XGW program user, a very old editing midi program that ended in 2002 but still the best Yamaha midi editing program ever made, IMHO.
And some other additional audio DAW programs are making a dream come true ( in my eyes ). Enough new software to play with. 

As I said many times before, an arranger keyboard is in the first place a music instrument for me whatever the computer technology might bring.
In most cases we see partly a software upgrade and other changes but ... why should I kill a winning horse ?

Being a guitar player for more than 65 years, I am an old fashioned and traditional music player ... the quality of my instruments is much more important than their age.
I love my instruments and it is not easy for me to say goodbye to one of my music instruments. If they cannot be repaired I am forced to buy another one though. 

I really respect and support other people who prefer to own the newest arranger every time it is shown in the market. Why not ?
It is always very interesting and funny to read their experiences and/or comments. 

Best regards, JH 

[Lee Batchelor]

Historically, whenever I've upgraded to the newer model, I've looked for better styles, better sounds, smoother OS, and the like. If Yamaha wants to destroy Korg's 5X, they need to make the pianos, e.pianos, and organs far better. For the special voices like sax, strings, brass etc...lean more toward VST sounds. All they need is larger memory chips.

For the styles, they need to stop re-purposing the old ones. There must be some newer approaches to these old styles that they can bring to the table. Round robin technology would be a welcome change. A decent external style creator would also be wonderful. The current one is clunky and too convoluted. I'm perfectly capable of creating song-specific styles. The current method is too time consuming and restrictive. I hate it! When software is clumsy to use, it destroys creativity. You can't get anything done when productivity is inhibited by poorly designed software.

[keynote]

But, for all the contented nay sayers, what if the next iteration of Genos presents some breakthrough features that no one has thought of, or imagined (yet), that will make it irresistible?

Quite right, Larry. No doubt about it the current Genos is top-shelf material but Yamaha always seems to bring new exciting features, functions, and better sounds with each new release and I expect Genos 2 will entice, or rather, encourage many keyboardists to jump on the bandwagon after Yammie's official announcement. Seamless Sound Switching will likely be on the ticket as well as a 61-key version and also including perhaps a tilting screen (perhaps motorized, perhaps not) which was quite popular during the Tyros series. A new improved LCD/OLED Touch Display Screen(s) with better resolution would be nice. The current Black color could also be changed to Silver, Deep Blue, or Red color instead although it's anybody's guess. Yamaha has also dabbled in White regarding some models. The only downside to the current Black color on the Genos in my opinion is it's kinda hard to see your way around in low-light situations. An improved Vocal Harmonizer could also be in store. VH3. Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?  And possibly directional lights for the Drawbars like the current YC-Stage Keyboard has would be a show-stopper. Lots of other cool features/functions should also be in store.  It should be around the same price as the current Genos but probably somewhat more so ($300-$500 more) because of the current inflation situation and all the new sounds and fancy features/functions. If we do see a 61-key version it might be the best option for many people since it will be less expensive and a lot of keyboardists don't need the extra real estate. We'll have to wait and see but hope springs eternal.

All the best,
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Quite right, Larry. No doubt about it the current Genos is top-shelf material but Yamaha always seems to bring new exciting features, functions, and better sounds with each new release and I expect Genos 2 will entice, or rather, encourage many keyboardists to jump on the bandwagon after Yammie's official announcement. Seamless Sound Switching will likely be on the ticket as well as a 61-key version and also including perhaps a tilting screen (perhaps motorized, perhaps not) which was quite popular during the Tyros series. A new improved LCD/OLED Touch Display Screen(s) with better resolution would be nice. The current Black color could also be changed to Silver, Deep Blue, or Red color instead although it's anybody's guess. Yamaha has also dabbled in White regarding some models. The only downside to the current Black color on the Genos in my opinion is it's kinda hard to see your way around in low-light situations. An improved Vocal Harmonizer could also be in store. VH3. Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?  And possibly directional lights for the Drawbars like the current YC-Stage Keyboard has would be a show-stopper. Lots of other cool features/functions should also be in store.  It should be around the same price as the current Genos but probably somewhat more so ($300-$500 more) because of the current inflation situation and all the new sounds and fancy features/functions. If we do see a 61-key version it might be the best option for many people since it will be less expensive and a lot of keyboardists don't need the extra real estate. We'll have to wait and see but hope springs eternal.

All the best,
Mike

I second that 👍! That would make me happy - along with much improved key voices like piano, e.piano, and organs. I'd scoop that keyboard in a heartbeat, providing Yamaha ditches ALL the cheap build crapola. Stop thinking "profit" and think "customers first." Be different than any other 21st century company. Great insight Mike.

[mikf]

They are never going to do that Lee, without profit all commercial companies cease to exist. It's non negotiable. But building a good product and making a profit should not be mutually exclusive.
No reputable company in my experience ever sets out to build a bad product, but sometimes they get it wrong. Hopefully Yamaha learn from any mistakes in this product.
BTW , the Yamaha musical instruments division net income is published annually and it is fairly modest, typically in the 8-12% range, which would be considered an ok but not extraordinary performer. 
Mike,

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Mike. But Yamaha made decent profits from the 70s to now and held the number 1 position in many categories, without cheaping out on build quality. There is no excuse for such poor build quality. I think most would agree that 99% of the cost in building the Genos lies in the R&D and electronics. The case and buttons are cheap in comparison and are garbage compared to their predecessors. It wouldn't cost that much more to improve the physical aspects of the Genos. Yamaha commands top dollar for the Genos - even more than the Montage. Give us top quality build or reduce the price.

[mikf]

Lee. I don't have a Genos, but my CVPs are very well made, and so was my PSR 3000 before that, as is my Yamaha grand piano. But from what you and other are saying Yamaha seemed to have fallen short on the robustness of the Genos. Hopefully they will address that on future TOTL arranger models.
When you look at the reporting history, Yamaha was a very poor financial performer in the late 90s, culminating in huge losses in 2000 and resignation of the chairman. They improved, but not great, and as a result, corporate leadership changed again around 2007. They have been large steady since then, but operating income tends to be in the range of ok rather than top drawer.
I suspect their poor build quality on the Genos might have been related as much to trying to reduce weight as to increase margins. Whatever the reason it seems like something they need to address on future models.
Having said that though, I see from comments on the forum by Mark Wilburn, who I believe works with a musical instruments retailer,  that the dealers still see them as producing typically better quality than competitors.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Mike. My PSR3000 was built like a tank.  So were my Tyros keyboards after that. Mechanically, the Genos is a failure in so many ways.

[Jeff Hollande]

Mechanically, the Genos is a failure in so many ways.

Hey Lee :

Most Genos' owners here seem to be very pleased and happy with their Genos, IMO.

Best regards, JH

[EileenL]

Pleased with mine but then I do not gig any more. Still enjoy recording and using all the features to edit and adjust things to my liking though.