If you're considering buying a Korg Pa5X...

[mikf]

Agree Graham. Dismissing competitors products as not worth considering is the kind of arrogant thinking that starts technology leaders down the slippery slope. Top companies like Yamaha do not make this mistake.
I spent more than 25 years responsible for driving multi million dollar development investment decisions, and knowledge of what competitors were doing was always a huge part of the final decision making, and often the biggest single factor in getting board approval for a big development investment.
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Bill,

There have been several threads about the 5X. I think the main theme is, "The 5X has 'this or that' and we hope the new Genos has those things as well." You're 100% right in that the 5X has some very much needed upgrades in any arranger. You'll find that 99% of us are still in favor of the Genos but also respect the new features Korg has brought to the table and are anxious to see Yamaha's response.

You can go down to the pub and get a nice pint of 5X
I imagine that what Yamaha would also say!!

[Lee Batchelor]

The Japanese are notorious for reverse engineering a competitor's product, finding out what they did right and wrong, fixing it, seeking existing customer wants, and then producing a superior product.

I had a friend who owned a music store back in the 70s and 80s. He was a huge Yamaha dealer. Yamaha invited him to the plant in Japan to receive a sales award and a factory tour. There was one very large room that he accidently wandered into. It was filled with every dual manual organ produced by every company back to the 50s. The organs were all taken apart so that the Yamaha folks could see what worked and what needed improvement. I owned a few Yamaha dual manual organs before going the Arranger route. They sounded great, had very innovative features, and were at a decent price point.

Yes, you can rest assured Yamaha has their eyeballs on the 5X and will have improved on it in the G2. They'll also analyze the things we want  and incorporate many of those ideas.

[EileenL]

Yes Lee you are right there. We all know they will cater to there Yamaha players to the best of there ability. Some idea's from users will find there way into a new flag ship but only sensible and possible one's. I know some will say oh they could do this and do that and it will only cost a couple of pounds but they don't live in the real world.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Lee :

Thank you for sharing this very interesting experience of your friend at Yamaha Japan.
As far as new software is concerned Yamaha will find allround support from their 100% owned ( since 2002 ) company Steinberg ( Cubase e.g. ) / Germany.
The Genos2 will surely bring all what customers are expecting today. 

Best regards, JH

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks Jeff and Eileen. One thing is certain - Yamaha has never disappointed its clients through new releases. Some of the new models only had medium upgrades. For example, in the later Tyros keyboards, there wasn't a gigantic leap, which is how I think the Genos was conceived. Yamaha said they needed "something ground-breaking." They gave us just that in the Genos. They will do the same in G2, now that there's a decent player out there called the PA5X.

[Jeff Hollande]

You are welcome, Lee !
The competitor launched a nice arranger keyboard. I agree.
BUT ...
Yamaha will introduce a Genos' successor that will be uniqe and
impress the entire Arranger Keyboard World like in 2002 when their
Tyros1 landed on Earth.

Kind regards, JH

[tyrosman]

Well I suppose posting a competitors details on a Yamaha site is asking for the answers some are giving. If we are that interested then surly we would look at the Korg forum or go onto you tube for information. Indeed some members may own both keyboards and are happy with both and good luck to them. Most of us here are quite happy with our Yamaha keyboards and that is why we visit this forum to help one another with how to get the best out of them.
  I have nothing against Korg except the very poor treatment I got from the service department when I had mine. Can never say that about Yamaha they are tip top in this.

here here Eileen well said

[AndyB]

The Genos Tenor Sax and Alto are as near as you can get with the real thing.
The Articulations are fantastic.
Yes there are poor clarinet type ones but the Genos has the best.
Even the Technics KN 2000 had really good warm sax sounds. Second to none pre 2000.
My hearing is good  for  71 year old and can easliy tell the difference in quality of sounds
It is only VST instruments that can out class Genos sound.
THe PAX5 is nowhere near the class of the Genos.
It's like comparing the Genos to a  Rolf Harris Styleophone
Why have a mini when you can have a Rolls Royce.
Why have a beefburger when you can have steak
I suppose some would prefer "Sausages" !!!

Think you must be deaf, the PA5x wipes the floor with the Genos, as soon as I can trade in my Tyros 5 then it won't be another plastic keyboard from Yamaha that never gets updates (Tyros 5 never got any updates even with its issues) but a Korg PA5x. Tried one and very impressed.

Look on YouTube for videos by Alois muller, he plays PA5x and Genos.

[tyrosman]

Think you must be deaf, the PA5x wipes the floor with the Genos, as soon as I can trade in my Tyros 5 then it won't be another plastic keyboard from Yamaha that never gets updates (Tyros 5 never got any updates even with its issues) but a Korg PA5x. Tried one and very impressed.

Look on YouTube for videos by Alois muller, he plays PA5x and Genos.

you must be the one that is Deaf the Sax in Genos blowes Korg away by miles and Tyros 5 Had every update

[Amwilburn]

True the T5 didn't really get any updates; the Genos has had several remarkable ones (the PA4x had a pretty good update too). As for wipes the floor, I think you need to try it first. The Sax articulation in PA5x doesn't automatically switch from mono to polyphonic mode, meaning you have to *very* carefully let go of the original note at the exact right time when doing a gliss, etc.

On the other hand, I am well and truly impressed with the PA5x's piano sound, build quality, and keybed. But not being able to chain registrations is a bit of a deal breaker for me. But there are some really nice things about it. I'd say the drums are even a bit better, the (non pipe) organs are phenomenal too. But Articulations just don't work as hassle free.

Maybe with an update?

Mark

[andyg]

Regarding some previous comments: Having 'been there, done it and quite literally got the t-shirt', I can say that even back in my days in R&D, there would be competitors' products in the factory. Go back far enough and they could simply copy the circuitry. Then along came custom components that would have to be reverse engineered - if possible.

But if a feature wasn't patented, R&D would try to find a way of recreating it - or a way of getting around the patent! Lowrey's AOC feature being a great example. All the companies knew how to make it work, and how to improve on it, but the patents were watertight. As soon as they expired, every company very quickly put their version of AOC onto organs and keyboards.

So yes, I've no doubt that Yamaha had a PA5X in the lab very quickly, and their staff and their dealers would be thinking about what features, sounds, styles and effects might work well on a new model.

[mikf]

Come on guys, there is no better or best here. There is just subjective preference. We don't need insults and statements of absolutes, when there is no absolute. It's fair to say "I much prefer the Korg" but not to say "you must be deaf if you can't hear that the Korg is miles better"
Mike

[Whitecolin11]

Interesting comparison but their is room for both.
The Korg is an unfinished diamond at the moment, but with the new Instructional videos of Qui Robinez who has unlocked some features that show the potential of the keyboard.
I will reiterate previous comments the pianos are great especially layered, the strings are the best ive heard acoustic guitars are in line with Yamaha, electric,  sax, clarinet, violins, Yamaha have a mellower richer sound. Drums are almost live and are easily fully programmable.
if korg fix the glitches it would in my opinion be the clear winner, but with a new arranger that must be on the horizon, using the technology of the korg and others, Yamaha may conclusively put the debate to rest due to their deep pockets.

[Jeff Hollande]

The Korg is an unfinished diamond at the moment, but with the new Instructional videos of Qui Robinez who has unlocked some features that show the potential of the keyboard.
if korg fix the glitches it would in my opinion be the clear winner, but with a new arranger that must be on the horizon, using the technology of the korg and others, Yamaha may conclusively put the debate to rest due to their deep pockets.

IMHO it is too early to compare apples and oranges ( yet ).
In November 2023 I expect a first Genos' successor demo will take place in the UK by Martin Harris and Peter Baartmans. Delivery : early 2024 ?
Then final comparisons can start, I guess.

Best regards, JH

[usaraiya]

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the PSR-SX900 with almost all the features of the Genos at less than half the price! It is a wonderful machine.


Uday

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Uday :

I agree the SX900 is a very good, reliable arranger.
However, it is not a Genos though.🤪

JH

[usaraiya]

Like I said, Jeff, "Meanwhile", i.e while waiting for a Genos!

Uday

[rikkisbears]

On the other hand, I am well and truly impressed with the PA5x's piano sound, build quality, and keybed. But not being able to chain registrations is a bit of a deal breaker for me. But there are some really nice things about it. I'd say the drums are even a bit better, the (non pipe) organs are phenomenal too. But Articulations just don't work as hassle free.

Maybe with an update?

Mark

Hi Mark , I like the piano sounds on my PA5x also, but being a bit of a piano nut
who loves the sound of  Yamaha piano , I splurged and bought myself the
Wavesart  CFX 9ft Concert Grand  sample library. wow.  For solo playing, it is beautiful.
Normally don't buy samples, but it was worth it.

That is where Yamaha does shine, with the registrations and being able to chain them. I suppose the closest thing Korg has got to it is the Songbook, but you can't chain them. My PA5x/SX900 setup wouldn't work without the registration sequencer.

[soundphase]

That is where Yamaha does shine, with the registrations and being able to chain them.

With smooth sound switch feature, it would even be better ....

[usaraiya]

FYI - for those interested in the synth sounds of the PA5X.

Another great demo from QR showcasing the magnificent synth sounds of the PA5X.

https://youtu.be/EPOaP0ZibWk

Uday

[bluali]

Updated List of New Bugs Found on PA5X

▫️ For musicians that use lower such as strings, almost 100% of us do, you cannot turn of the pitch bender for the lower. It will bend with your sound on uppers. This function does not work.
▫️ .......

Mike

I have both Korg Pa5x and Genos and I agree with most of these comments. I am still waiting for update for my Korg PA5x because this keyboard has some good features that Genos does not have . but currently it is useless for me.



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[overover]

I have both Korg Pa5x and Genos and I agree with most of these comments. I am still waiting for update for my Korg PA5x because this keyboard has some good features that Genos does not have . but currently it is useless for me.

Hi bluali,

I haven't followed the discussions here in detail regarding the pros/cons of the Korg Pa5X and Ketron Event versus the Genos. Why is your Pa5X "useless" to you with the current software version?


Best regards,
Chris

[Danny1972]

FYI - for those interested in the synth sounds of the PA5X.

Another great demo from QR showcasing the magnificent synth sounds of the PA5X.

https://youtu.be/EPOaP0ZibWk

Uday

Wow, thank you for this, it does sound incredible. I need to explore those sounds a bit more for myself. Thanks for sharing this

[robinez]

Wow, thank you for this, it does sound incredible. I need to explore those sounds a bit more for myself. Thanks for sharing this

Thanks Uday for mentioning my video. I didn't post it over here because I was under the impression that a lot of people here are hating it when you talk about the features from a pa5x, so I would post mainly things over here about my yamaha genos. But there are a lot more pa5x videos now on my channel.

@danny1972, I can definitely advice to check the sound section of the pa5x and create your own new keyboard sets with them, there are so many new high quality sounds that you can combine to unique layered sounds that you can create really unique keyboard sets this way. Also every sound can be modified in an easy way with the macro edit mode (which is also directly available in a style so you can store it in a song registration). I've explained that macro edit mode starting at 15:00 minutes in the video.

The sound system is a big difference compared to the yamaha genos, there you also have some very basic editing features, but in the korg pax series you have a complete synthesizer on board that you can program. And you don't need an external program like YEM, you can do it all on the keyboard itself.

[rikkisbears]

Thanks Uday for mentioning my video. I didn't post it over here because I was under the impression that a lot of people here are hating it when you talk about the features from a pa5x, so I would post mainly things over here .

Hi Qui

The Yamaha crowd on the whole ,seem to be far more forgiving  than the Korg crowd.
They don't appear to be as forgiving about mentioning other brands.

I liked  this  one, song specific styles from midi files.
https://youtu.be/SURtgtsGT68

And the one on modifying styles
https://youtu.be/OCgm9t-tNxA
Some of this info I would tend to think would also apply to Yamaha. Might need to be done differently, but still a possibility?

[Jeff Hollande]

The Yamaha crowd on the whole ,seem to be far more forgiving  than the Korg crowd.
They don't appear to be as forgiving about mentioning other brands.

Hi Rikki :

It is hard to understand for me why people do argue about which arranger they are playing.  
We all have a certain preference and that should be respected.
I think it might be very useful to know much about the competition's pros and cons, the weaknesses and the strengths.

Personally, for more than 25 years now, I am a Yamaha arranger customer.
There is no reason for me to buy another brand nor to upgrade.
My good old Tyros4 might be old but ... so am I. 

All the best, JH

[rikkisbears]

Hi Jeff, yes , does make one wonder. I think it's good to know what features / functions the different brands of arrangers have. One can make an informed choice ie do I stay with the  brand I'm familiar with or does the other brand have functions that are better suited.
Or in your case, it does everything you want , so why bother changing😁.

[EileenL]

Well many years ago Korg shared the same factory at Milton Keynes here in the UK.
  Now it is just Yamaha. I have been there quite a few times Have met many of the Yamaha teams over the years and they are the nicest people you would ever wish to meet.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I see that the E-piano site here in UK is  predicting whether or not The Genos 2 is a possibility.
They say they are keeping their ear to the ground, but hear no whispers yet or whoever they question is tight lipped.
They are say it could be a possibility for Christmas this year, but that means October really as it takes time to get orders in for Christmas as people spend that time of year.
it is just the line on their site that says ----


My Advice To You:

Therefore, my fellow Genos people, my advice to you is to spend lightly on your summer holidays, for the autumn might well bring you something you'll want in your Christmas stocking.


I SAY NO SMOKE WITHOUT A FIRE!!!

The korg is not my cup 'o' tea