Yamaha Genos 2 61

[Amwilburn]

Mike: yes, real world retail experience shows that 76 is more desirable than 61 when the price is around the same; but I didn't say 100% of customers purchased T5-76; it was over 80%.
Ton37: that means, they *could* make a 61, but it's more economically feasible to make just 1 version (twice the costs of molding, packaging, etc). That doesn't mean they *won't* make a 61 key version again. Just that at the moment it's more economically viable not to.

Having said that? No point arguing about it for now: NAMM 2022 starts today! And if Korg/Yamaha/Roland are going to unveil new keyboards, it'll be this weekend (and if they do, that usually means they won't be available for sale for a few months yet, but at least we'll know what's coming)

Mark

[J. Larry]

My decision-making on 61 notes is very similar to "ton37".  The SX 900 is a perfect fit for the moment.  Rather than a 61-note Genos, I'd vote for a "SX Plus" if such is possible. 

[mikf]

Just watched a fairly video of the Yamaha facility at NAMM. Reminds us just how massive they are in musical instruments because arrangers were a relatively small part of the display. Did not look like there's a Genos2 or any new TOTL arranger, because they still seemed to feature the existing Genos as the flagship arranger. Certainly no 61 note Genos.
Mike

[maartenb]

I think we have to wait to see the new keyboard:

https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw

Great catch!


At the above YouTube link you will find a placeholder by the Sud Claviers people for a live demo on June 30th, 2022 at 18:00 (6:00pm) Central European Time (CET).

The title is (translated from French by deepl.com/translator):

• "New keyboard arranger - Full presentation"

The video image itself says:

• "Preview - New keyboard arranger"

Below the to-be live stream it says:

• "We invite you to discover the long-awaited preview on June 30th.
  A new generation of super-powerful keyboard arranger with new functions and limitless possibilities.
  This live presentation will allow you to discover the instrument in detail, we hope to see you there."
  

Although Sud Claviers don't tell what brand and keyboard model they will show, I truly believe this will be the new Korg Pa5X. And based on Sud Claviers' track record, this demo will be great.


Maarten

[Dnj]

Great news finally and hopefully something to look forward to ....
when will Pre ordering start is what I want to know ?

Thank you for the information.

[mikf]

Dnj - do you understand this demo date is for the Korg arranger not a Yamaha? As far as I am aware there is no indication at all of a new TOTL Yamaha arranger on the horizon.
Mike

[Amwilburn]

Mike, I think you meant Dnj, not Paul

But yeah, nothing at NAMM except PSRe473, new YDP. Which means nothing imminent, anyway.

[Toril S]

Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line

[mikf]

Mike, I think you meant Dnj, not Paul

But yeah, nothing at NAMM except PSRe473, new YDP. Which means nothing imminent, anyway.

Yes, you are right, that darn spell checker kept messing me up when I tried to write "dnj" until I forgot what I was doing
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line

Hi Toril
Hope you are happy and well.
If there is going to be a new Genos, putting speakers on it would cheapen it in my view.
We need more sample space/memory and better editing.
Genos speakers on keyboards are pretty tinny sounding as with the Genos Satallites and boom box.
With a £5000 keyboard arranger it deserves quality speakers.

All the Best
John

Ps,   If Korg have something to shout about at the end of the month, i would take a bet that Yamaha are not far behind.

[mikf]

You can always put in high quality speakers, they do that in the top line CVPs, which sound great..But then it gets heavy for a portable instrument, maybe why they never put them in the original Tyros.
I think the main reason why Toril's ideas would not work, is that Yamaha need some performance differentiation to keep pricing strategy right. A big attraction of the SX series is the much lower price point.
Mike

[Dnj]

Dnj - do you understand this demo date is for the Korg arranger not a Yamaha? As far as I am aware there is no indication at all of a new TOTL Yamaha arranger on the horizon.
Mike

I am very well aware and sitting back waiting for anything arranger kb wise to come to market.
All else is rumor or fake news at this point. we'll see when it happens.

[pjd]

Here is another playful thought, friends: If you open the Genos, there is much empty space inside it. So in Genos 2, put in some speakers, make it 61 notes and we have a Genos/SX900 in one. Or give the SX900 S.art functions. Merge the two, and get rid of one production line

Hi Toril --

Hope you're doing well!

Yep, Genos has a fair amount of air (space) inside. Looking at the Genos by my side, there isn't enough front panel space for top-firing speakers. By the looks of it, I don't think there would be an easy path to 61 keys, either, unless the buttons and/or screen are shrunk, too.

I plan to keep Genos v1 for a long time to come. More than good enough for what I do!    What I really need is playing skill in a box. Haven't seen that at the store... 

All the best -- pj

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

The big reasons for not seeing a Genos 2/3 maybe because of the microchip shortages and what is going on all over the place with costly written on it.

[pjd]

The big reasons for not seeing a Genos 2/3 maybe because of the microchip shortages and what is going on all over the place with costly written on it.

Ya got that right, mate!    We're still feeling the effects of the pandemic slowdown and the fires that affected IC production. Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM), who make the DACs/ADCs in Yamaha keyboards, has been pretty quiet/secretive about the factory and future production:

https://www.strata-gee.com/akm-fire-update-co-makes-progress-interim-solution-shows-promise/

Given that NAMM 2022 saw fewer product announcements, I'm not expecting much of anything new in the near future. I'm content to play and experiment. 

All the best -- pj

[maartenb]

Wow.

All links collected in this thread that point to leaked footage of the Korg Pa5X, are no longer working (except one).

This confirms the reality of the new arranger, in my humble opinion.

June 30th we'll know for sure.


Maarten

[Gunnar Jonny]

All links collected in this thread that point to leaked footage of the Korg Pa5X, are no longer working (except one).

This one still works, and there should not be any more doubt about that the PAX5 is on the way when look at those pictures.
Too good shots to be fake.
Just scroll downwards the page.
http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707

Also this one is still working: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk

Copied the links from posts at Korg Forum.

Yes I know, this is a Yamaha place, but if Korg carry on develop and produce new TOTL arrangers, I think we may expect that Yamaha will pick up the glove to continue the competition. At least I hope so, because if the arranger market disappear like we could see the homeorgans did, it would be sad.

[mikf]

Home organs really didn't disappear, they are still around, but the emergence of an overall similar, more versatile  and cheaper keyboard. - the arranger - became the majority first choice. I think we are already seeing the TOTL arranger being put under pressure by keyboards almost as good at much lower prices. It might be that Yamaha is not too bothered by competition at the $4000 level from a new TOTL Korg. My guess is that they are more concerned about maintaining leadership of the market at the sub $2000 level, where I suspect most money is made. The Genos acts a bit like the Mercedes S class, not too many people will spend the money on it, but it maintains that brand leadership aura that lets Mercedes sell many, many more lower end models at a premium.
Mike

[Amwilburn]

This one still works, and there should not be any more doubt about that the PAX5 is on the way when look at those pictures.
Too good shots to be fake.
Just scroll downwards the page.
http://vsti.pl/instrumenty-klawiszowe/21007-korg-pa5x-newsy,-wskaz%C3%B3wki,-zdj%C4%99cia,-informacje.html?start=112#25707

Also this one is still working: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FcGfCm_RWTk

You're right, that *doesn't* look like a mockup. Guess we'll know June 30th! (which will then eventually force Yamaha to respond)

[Bill]

Maybe Korg visit the wish list posts on this site more than Yamaha do.

We might just end up with a good universally accepted arranger.

It might sound as though is not possible, but with a shrinking arranger market the only way to increase sales is to poach some loyal customers from competitors.  So we should be flooding the Korg sites with our wish lists and hope Yamaha monitor the Korg forums.

Bill

[mixermixer]

Yes I know, this is a Yamaha place, but if Korg carry on develop and produce new TOTL arrangers, I think we may expect that Yamaha will pick up the glove to continue the competition. At least I hope so, because if the arranger market disappear like we could see the homeorgans did, it would be sad.

The arranger market isn't going away anytime soon. IMO particularly, the southeast Asia/overseas Asia demographic is keeping it alive. I've seen many own Tyros and PSR S models that are still in use today. They would still probably buy Yamaha given if they are to upgrade or replace a broken model because almost all of them use custom styles programmed for Yamaha keyboards. I would know because I'm one of them lol 

[MadrasGiaguari]

Dear Mark,

last year in November I was in Naples (Italy) and had a nice tour of music shops, all concentrated in one road.

While I was in one of the shops (Miletti) incidentally I met two managers from Korg, doing a tour to visit their clients. We had a nice conversation, and at one point it came out that I used to have Korg flagships for about 20 years, but lately I turned to Yamaha with CVP Clavinova and Genos.
So he told me that in 2022 the new Korg flagship will be available, he did not know exactly when. It will be totally different compared with Pa4X, and much more powerful than Genos. He added that it will be available in various sizes, including for sure 61 and 76 keys.

We'll see.....

Ciao

Angelo

[Lee Batchelor]

I will buy the best arranger for my music style. I don't care if it's made by Yamaha, Korg, or Santa Claus. It should be interesting to see if Korg has implemented most of the "wish list" items from the various Yamaha sites.

On the other hand, Yamaha may shock the Korg world in six months after they put the icing on Genos 2 and blow the PA5X out of the water. Either way, my wife is not anxious for me to put out more money on another piece of gear after parting with $3,000 for new speakers !

[Ingar]

I don't believe it will be. And I Wonder, will there ever be a New Genos?

[Amwilburn]

Lee, I doubt it will be 6 months, but maybe not as long as last time: PA4x launched in 2015 (May in Canada), the Genos followed 2.5 years later (in Canada, anyway... Dec 2017)

But I think it all depends on how much of a dent Korg makes first so if the presumed Pa5x make a major dent in the arranger market, then you're right, it'll definitely be quicker than 2.5 years!

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, Mark. It seems we all go through this speculation curve after owning the arranger "de jour" for a few years, and then wait to see what tricks Yamaha has up its sleeve. So far, they've never disappointed!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

From what i have read the Korg will be more powerful than the Genos

[rodrigo.b]

From what i have read the Korg will be more powerful than the Genos

For me the Korg always had better functions, like the possibility of creating sounds with articulations or the guitar mode to create guitar tracks, but I don't like the sound quality, and for me all the Korg pa keyboards sounds the same.

[ton37]

Allow me to let go of my present thoughts on this a bit. A few points that come to my mind:
a. the target group: mostly seniors. This baby boom generation is dying out (sometime financially too). Young people generally choose other brands, or skip the phenomenon of 'keyboard arranger' and compose and play via software variants (soft-synthesizer software)
b. Every keyboard manufacturer has to be very innovative (means: put a lot of money into it) to be able to improve the current top keyboards a lot. For many, a 2nd hand Genos or SX still perfectly meets their needs (if a new one will come)
c. The prices for new generations of keyboards will be quite expensive in the current market environment. One question is whether the older senior still wants to afford that for x-years.
d. In the past, large companies have given up investing in their music/keyboard division (Technics for example?). As a company, Yamaha has many other products, of course. The keyboard division will be only a very small financial security. They can, if the management wants it, just stop developing a new keyboard. A specialist company (eg Korg) has even more reason to exist in this regard.
In other words: Yamaha/Genos can just be E.O.L??

Just my 2 cents ;-)

[Lee Batchelor]

What is E.O.L? I wish people would type stuff out and stop assuming we all know these abbreviations .

Yes, I'm a baby boomer who can still afford a new keyboard and am not too lazy to type out the whole sentence !