Yamaha Genos 2 61

[mixermixer]

T5 is when they introduced a 76 key, previous ones were only 61 key. I guess with less buttons now that Yamaha is going all in on the touchscreen (a bad idea imo) they could attempt a 61 key version. I would agree that if you wanted an 88 key version, might well get a clavinova CVP instead lol.

[keynote]

I guess you guys have noticed the Korg Pa4x has been discontinued. You can't find the Pa4x at online music stores such as Guitar Center, Sweetwater, etc. I found one at an unlikely online establishment but they were asking $7,000. Could have been a scam perhaps. I think the rumors and now pics of the Pa5x are real. There are a few videos on YouTube that are live shots and pretty convincing. It seems Romania has one or two in stock currently but might not be able to sell them yet until Korg's official announcement which could take place at NAMM 2022 at the Anaheim, CA., Convention Center on June 3-5. In other words, in just a few days from now. We already know the new products Yamaha is releasing at NAMM since they've already listed them on their website. Unfortunately, there's no Genos 2 listed. I think Yamaha is deliberately waiting until Korg launches the Pa5x so they can see what the Korg offers and then work diligently on the forthcoming Genos 2 (or whatever they decide to call it) to perhaps implement new features and new sounds (voices) so that when the Genos 2 is released (probably in 2023/2024) it will once again blow the Korg out of the water.     

[keynote]

I know this is a Yamaha-focused keyboards forum but competition is always a good thing. Here is a video of the "real" Korg Pa5X, supposedly. It looks authentic to me. Remember, the Pa4X has been discontinued after a lengthy run beginning in 2015. I think it's reasonable to assume we would see a new flagship arranger from Korg in 2022. If Yamaha waits 7 years to release a successor to the Genos, Yamaha devotees would be up in arms, but I wouldn't really be surprised due to the global circumstances such as the supply chain crisis, global chip shortage, inflation, and other economic oddities that have upended manufacturers ability to provide customers with new products on a more timely basis. Anywho, here's the video. PS: Updated link. The previous video experienced an audio anomaly.

The Real Video of the Korg Pa5X

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks for posting that, Keynote. I doubt that Korg produced that video. It's very amateurish, using one rhythm for the entire video. If it is authentic, it looks like someone recorded a teaser clip from Korg on their cell phone. Who knows?

So far, I don't see any great advantage over the current Genos. I suspect Genos 2 would blow that machine away. Can't wait to find out !

[Joe H]

Eileen,
  If Yamaha thinks to make it Genos very compact for live performers, they will do without problem like this compact keyboard(see the picture). Yamaha is looking for customers requirements world wide. If Yamaha release Genos2 both versions 61 note compact and 76 note to satisfy all, then what is your objection ?


Sunny

Maybe the next PSR xxx will look like that (including the faders and knobs)



Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
When do you all think a new genos will arrive.
It seems there is no signals from Yamaha.
It is weird that it has been this long before announcing a new Genos

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi
When do you all think a new genos will arrive.
It seems there is no signals from Yamaha.
It is weird that it has been this long before announcing a new Genos

Actually John, I think Yamaha has a history of releasing their new machines at the last minute. They may leak out small tidbits to key people, who then propagate that info to the masses. I also suspect Genos 2 will be late to the table due to Covid-related delays.

[pjd]

Anyway, the arrival of the PA5X will move something into Yamaha headquarter, I'm sure.

Francesco

Ya got that right!!!   

-- pj

[mikf]

My (very personal!) point of view is: how much do we really need a Genos 2 and how much can be improved on the current one?
Before proceeding to create a new model, it would be interesting to know whether the current one has really been pushed to its limits.
Anyway, the arrival of the PA5X will move something into Yamaha headquarter, I'm sure.

Francesco

I don't think people upgrading from the most recent model to the latest model is a significant sales driver. So Yamaha would not be thinking we have to have a Genos 2 with new features to tempt all the current Genos owners into upgrading. The main market for any new model is to remain competitive with alternatives and  capture the new sales, ie buyers upgrading much older models, buyers moving from lower spec models, or moving from other brands, and of course buyers completely new to the arrranger market. This will be their focus. It's also my understanding that they are having problems meeting existing demand for the Genos due to parts shortages etc. And they already have many relatively new products at lower costs like the DGX to offer .......so maybe little reason to hurry up a new TOTL model.
Mike

[mikf]

I'm not saying they won't ever offer 61 key flagship again, just that it's been more efficient for them not to. For now.  Don't forget, by the time the next G2 launches? The PSRsx910 (or whatever they call it) will be for all intents and purposes a 61key Genos, just like the PSRsx900 is essentially a T5 (without the S.A2 sounds).

Mark

Mark, you are in the retail musical instrument business, so .........let's imagine 100 arranger buyers come to your store, and you say this is the new Genos 2, wonderful keyboard, it has 61 keys, and costs $4000. So they say, great, but what's that keyboard sitting next to it? Oh, that's the same Genos 2 but it has 76 keys. How much does that cost they ask? Well it doesn't really cost much different to make so it is $4000 as well you reply.
SO HOW MANY WOULD BUY THE 61 KEY VERSION???
I say one .... or less. Which is why Yamaha would never put you in such a stupid position.

So the next question is realistically how much cheaper would it have to be before a reasonable number say, well, actually I don't really need 76 keys, so I'll take the small one?
My guess is that it would be at least $500, but realistically maybe closer to $1000 less to move more than a small number of buyers.
So that then would be about the price range of an SX900!!!
Mike

[keynote]

Here's another video of the new Korg Pa5X. You'll need to watch till the end to get a glimpse of it. It's in the process of powering up but it's in a keyboard case so that makes me think it might also run on batteries but time will tell. PS: I linked to the YouTube vid in case some people are hesitant to open a Box.com link without knowing the contents. Cheers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoUberqDHo

[EileenL]

What a terrible Advertisement to put out.

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed, Eileen. There's no way in the world Korg would introduce a flagship arranger in such an unprofessional manner. It just goes to show you that any idiot can create and post stuff on the internet.

[rodrigo.b]

I remember someone posted a photo of the PSR SX900 here before it was released.

[sunny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs

[Amwilburn]

Mark, you are in the retail musical instrument business, so .........let's imagine 100 arranger buyers come to your store, and you say this is the new Genos 2, wonderful keyboard, it has 61 keys, and costs $4000. So they say, great, but what's that keyboard sitting next to it? Oh, that's the same Genos 2 but it has 76 keys. How much does that cost they ask? Well it doesn't really cost much different to make so it is $4000 as well you reply.
SO HOW MANY WOULD BUY THE 61 KEY VERSION???
I say one .... or less. Which is why Yamaha would never put you in such a stupid position.

So the next question is realistically how much cheaper would it have to be before a reasonable number say, well, actually I don't really need 76 keys, so I'll take the small one?
My guess is that it would be at least $500, but realistically maybe closer to $1000 less to move more than a small number of buyers.
So that then would be about the price range of an SX900!!!
Mike

Yup, that's why I said it's more efficient (only 1 casing to manufacture & provide warranty support for). Like I said, when the Tyros 5 launched, and we were guessing numbers, I thought maybe 75% 76 key and 25% 61 key is what we would sell, but it ended up being even higher (>80%, if I recall). Which probably Yamaha found to be the case globally.

Even more telling, every time we get a used 76 key in, it's gone within weeks, whereas the 61's can easily take over a year to sell. Similarly, we sold 0 Pa4x61 after the initial preorder (basically since the PA1000 came out).

However the math isn't quite right; $1000 off a Genos doesn't make it PSRsx900 price range; more like 50%. The price diff would probably be similar the T561 vs T576 (which were separated by about $500) and you're right, most people won't bother with the 61 for that saving.

By the way, the Montage 88 vs the Montage 61 are $1100 difference in price; and *still* 80% of all our Montage sales are the 88.

Mark

[mikf]

Thanks Mark. This is why people saying " lots of people want a 61 note Genos " are ignoring reality and being misleading. When people say I would like a 61 note Genos, what they really mean is "I would like a much cheaper 61 note Genos."  Because as you have seen firsthand, pretty much no-one would pay the same - or even close to the same - for a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard.
Mike

[Amwilburn]

Dear friends,

about future arrangers, Korg is starting to sell the new Pa5x. It will be available in 3 sizes: 61, 76 and 88 keys.

If you are interested to know more about it, below pls find the link to an Italian store, showing also prices. Sorry that it is in Italian, but one may easy translate trough Google.

https://casamusicalefabio.it/prodotto/korg-pa5x-keyboard/

I personally am enthusiastic about my Genos 76 keys, not missing at all my previous 61 keys arrangers. Genos is a real jewel in all senses.

Ciao,

Angelo

By the way, Angelo, the link you posted? they've now deleted Pa5x; it now brings up a Genos again.


Either way, we'll find out tomorrow at NAMM

[ton37]

Thanks Mark. This is why people saying " lots of people want a 61 note Genos " are ignoring reality and being misleading. When people say I would like a 61 note Genos, what they really mean is "I would like a much cheaper 61 note Genos."  Because as you have seen firsthand, pretty much no-one would pay the same - or even close to the same - for a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard.
Mike

Hi Mike, I disagree with your statement. You're basically saying, 'People say it's raining outside.. but they don't mean it's raining, but they'd rather see the sun shining..??'
Let me take myself as an example: if only a 76 key Genos2 appears, then I skip it and wait for the new SX-? range? If a 61 Genos2 comes on the market... it's for me ;-)) . I traded the T5-76 and Genos for an SX for a reason (my reason!). And that had nothing to do with money. And I expect that there are 'enough' who would also like a 61-er G2??

[Duffy]

I agree with Ton.
I honestly can't see why everyone beats themselves up about 61 or 76 keys.
Some would like to buy a 61 Genos and, for them I hope Yamaha make one.
Others prefer the 76 Genos and that's fine too but, why should they make a big deal about Yamaha bringing back the 61 if they are happy with the 76.
Irrespective of the number of keys, I would like to see the Genos being made shorter i.e. less wasted space at both ends of the keyboard, in the same way as Ketron and Korg manage to do.
My feeling is that the Genos is too long but, otherwise offers most of what I want so I have to go with it.
At the end of the day, we have to buy what Yamaha produce (or go without) so, why analyse everyone's heads whilst we wait.
To add another view, If they were to shorten the Genos, I would also be happy enough with 73 keys (and shorten it further).
It would be nice if we could all have our personal wishes fulfilled but, in the real world, we must settle for what is offered.

[mikf]

Ton
Your analogy is way off the mark.
You and a few others may be exceptions, but my point, and Mark's real life experience is that there are just not enough people like you who would buy a smaller but otherwise identical keyboard at the same price, or even close to the same price, to make it worth offering.

Duffy, we are not beating ourselves up, or making a big deal about whether Yamaha might or might not make a 61 note keyboard. Frankly it will make no difference to most of us whether they do or not. But there is a discussion here and some of us participating are saying what they would like to see, and others are pointing out reasons why it's not likely to happen. That's not unreasonable.
Didn't you just do the same with your post?
Mike

[Duffy]

I have merely stated my view regarding the next Genos and I don't pretend to know better than others, who would buy, 61 or 76 keys.
Having stated my personal view, I  now leave it and not keep repeating it.
None of us know what's happening at Yamaha and I only know what I want and have no insight into the rest of the keyboard players fraternity.
I just hope everyone is happy with the new Genos when it appears.

[EileenL]

The SX range is very good but it can never be a Genos in things like quality of key bed and all the other extra's it has.
  I do not see why you would not want a 76 note if you had the chance. In all honesty
it is not much longer than Tyros 5 61 note. The extra notes make it much easier to set up a three way split for right hand voices as well as other things.

[maartenb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs

I've looked carefully at this picture of the cardboard box. The letters "Genos 2-61" don't seem to fit the rest of the picture. The Yamaha box itself seems real and probably contains something else.

My conclusion is that the picture has been edited and therefore is fake.


Maarten

[maartenb]

I know I am going off-topic with this.


Hi Keynote,

I've found another 19 seconds video of the Korg Pa5X on YouTube, and after careful examination, I have to conclude that the video and Pa5X are real.

Cool to see that Korg have implemented the same small black-and-white OLED display near the faders as Yamaha did with the Genos. Except Korg placed it below the faders instead of above.

My guess is that it is either a pre-production model or one of the first production models. Comparable to the first leaked pictures of the SX900.

This means the Pa5X is currently being tested in the field, and not for sale yet. But it is coming...


Maarten

[mikf]

I think you are right Maarten, there is just too much smoke now for there to be no fire coming. And when it arrives I am sure it will have some neat features, but it won't be revolutionary. Arranger technology development is now so advanced it's hard to get step change.
And there's a lot of brand loyalty in the arranger market. Not blind loyalty, but there is just such a learning curve when changing that most people won't jump brands for just a few neat features.
But one thing I feel certain about ..... even if Korg decide to offer both 61 and 76 versions, it will be the larger that will dominate sales, because market experience clearly demonstrates that most TOTL keyboard buyers prefer more keys than less, providing it doesn't make the keyboard too unwieldy or the price too high.
Mike

[ton37]

And if it is a real, not faked, vid... I like the 'drum'-pads at the right above a lot. And of course one photo of a Genos box  Oh, maybe it it a prototype of a box 

[rodrigo.b]

I think we have to wait to see the new keyboard:

https://youtu.be/gDiDUF0kNQw

[sunny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWb45Ggvkcs

Finally my dream comes true what I am dream of because Yamaha Genos 2 with 61 keys.

Sunny

[mikf]

It's the Korg that we thought might be real - not the Genos.
M8ke