A professional Musician

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi :

Today I have read the following pronunciation in a USA Uke Forum  :

To be professional musician means to earn your daily bread with music income. It doesn't mean to have a great skills. It is profession, not skills.


IMHO nowadays a pro musician must have great ( playing ) skills.
I wonder if you (dis)agree ?

Best regards, JH

[Al Ram]

Jeff

I agree with the definition:

.....To be professional musician means to earn your daily bread with music income. It doesn't mean to have a great skills. It is profession, not skills......

However, the better the skills the more chances for work/success. 

Thanks

[Normanfernandez]

In this case you'd need to explain what's a professional musician.

Each generation has a new skill to learn. 
Mozart did have MIDI or DAWs or even close to what Billy Joel Generation had.

Currently the competition is hard. And for a successful musician.
You have to know a fair share of other things too.
Norman.

[Bill]

I would disagree:  It is normally associated with a Professional Body that sets minimum standards, otherwise it is just another job.

Type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education:

A profession is an occupation founded upon specialized educational training.

Regards

Bill

[mikf]

...To be professional musician means to earn your daily bread with music income. It doesn't mean to have a great skills. It is profession, not skills....

The statement is strictly correct, but it's hard to earn a good living as a musician without great musical skills, in fact it can be hard even with them.
But also, colloquially musicians will often refer to people with admirable musical skills as 'pros'. Not strictly correct but a phrase in common use. I myself would seldom think of someone as a "pro" if they weren't really good, even if they had found a way to make money at it.
Mike

[C-clef]

Well, I think we have to split it down to the two separate words.

The Cambridge dictionary has profession : any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education.

and for musician we have: a person who is skilled in playing music, usually as a job.

Combining the two I think we have "a person who is skilled at playing music and earns his/her living from that ability."

Or am I wrong?

However, I suspect we could argue all day whether being a musician requires the ability to read and write music notation, whether one has the ability to play by ear,
How many instruments one can play, keys and strings and wind,
The ability to compose, write for transposing instruments, and so forth.

Colin.

[Ryszard Bieszczad]

Hello 
Profession - in sociology and anthropology: a profession that requires long-term preparation, usually through the necessity to complete university studies, and often an internship. Characteristic for professions is association in professional associations, creating their own codes of ethics, as well as limiting access to the exercise of the profession against people who do not belong to the organization.

The term traditionally referred to priests, doctors, teachers and lawyers, nowadays the profession also includes, inter alia, nurses, architects, accountants and social workers.
  In the case of musicians, a professional is a person who is professionally involved in playing, although sometimes he does not have great skills.
  I saw Tyros for sale in Poland, in which only the button with the inscription: play was used.
  The owners played mid weddings and only used the play button.
  They are typical amateurs.
A profession, therefore, is a profession that requires appropriate qualifications and specialist (read: music) education.
   Regards.
Richard

[mikf]

A very complete definition.
https://www.openmicuk.co.uk/advice/professional-musician-hobby-musician/
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

Thank you for your interesting comments.☝️

My personal conclusion :

A musician will be called " professional  " when he/she will be paid
for playing music.
Then we call this money "  income  " and the ( daily ) activity  a " job. ".

Special skills could be very useful but not necessary to become a professional musician.


Best regards, JH

[mikf]

Actually Jeff a Professional Musician would not just be paid, but it would be his primary income source. A Musician who is paid for his musical services but it is not his primary income source, would typically be termed a Semi-Professional Musician.

[Al Ram]

Jeff
Interesting question . . .. . just to add another perspective . . . .

I think there is a mix up . .. .  between the terms professional, successfull and musician.

I also think that when thinking about a musician we tend to think about someone who plays an instrument such as piano, guitar, etc.  but in my mind some musicians do no necesarily play a physical instrument but for example their voice is their instrument (i.e. singer) they can be considered musicians because their primary income is from music and/or show business.  An orchestra conductor is also a musician, a composer, an opera singer, etc.

So, under that umbrella,  I know of professional musicians that are not necesarily highly skilled and still are very successfull. Some cannot even read music or know scales, etc. but still they are successfull and even world-wide famous . . . ..

On the other hand, there are other professional musicians that are very highly skilled and talented but are not necesarily successfull.

Ideally a professional musician would be everything: highly skilled, professional and successful.

However, One thing does not imply the other.

Greetings all.

[mikf]

....I know of professional musicians that are not necesarily highly skilled and still are very successfull.....

Al - I doubt if that is correct. There may be rare exceptions, but by and large successful musicians are ALL highly skilled. But the key thing is that it applies only to the essential musical skills for what they do. They dont have to be expert in every aspect of music.
For example, reading music and high grasp of music theory might be an essential skill for some kind of musicians like conductors, arrangers, symphony players, but not for others.  A good singer may not be able to read a note of music, but they are still highly skilled  musicians - their pitching, phrasing, ability to 'sell' a song, stage presence - are all essential musical skills -- for them.
Reading music may not even be an essential skill for a jazz piano player, or a blind piano vocalist like Steve Wonder, or even a composer - Irving Berlin could hardly read a note and could play in only one key. But he was still one of the most skillful and successful musicians of all time.  Because he excelled in the skills that were essential for him - creative melody and lyrics, harmony etc.

Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

I believe Al and Mike might be both right.

Some " artists  " have such a natural talent that is much stronger than their skills. 

Emotion is a very important tool in music, IMHO.

JH

[mikf]

Jeff - talent is not something separate from skills, or something locked up inside a person. It is just the inherent ability to develop higher skills  than others. Talented footballers, athletes or violin players have just developed better skills. If they don't develop the skills it means nothing.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Mike :

I have to admit you are right.

However I believe " talent " could be slightly different than " skills " but hard to describe for me, sorry.🥸

Enjoy your Sunday, JH

[Robert van Weersch]

A professional (at any profession) is someone who has a job at this profession and gains his primary income from that job. Skills will help, as will experience and education. But I know enough professionals (at any profession) who have had college or university education, but still are terrible at their job. And I know lots of "amateurs" (at any profession) who are excellent at their "hobby" but for some reason have another profession to earn a living.

[mikf]

In the English language the same word can have multiple connotations, and the specific meaning is derived from context and accepted colloquial use.
So you can say Professional ****** and it would mean someone who had achieved the qualifications to become a member of that professional association - like an engineer for example - even where they do not earn  their living from it, and without any consideration of their actual competence. Normally that would be upper case P.

You can also use the same term to describe someone who earns their living from an activity such as professional artist, or professional musician even if they are not a member of a professional association, to distinguish from someone  (who may or may not be equally as good) who practices this same activity as an amateur or where it is not their primary source of income.

The term can also be used to describe ethical or fitting behavior - as in 'he is very professional', or even "he might be rock musician but he is very professional".

And it is often used to describe ability as in "he is a real professional" , and is frequently used to describe a musician or sportsman who is a particularly good at what they do.

All of these are valid uses of the term 'professional', and with all these common connotations, and others I don't mention, it is possible to debate forever what a professional musician means.

Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

The word professional comes from profession. Profession means
occupation or career.

But when we say : he/she is a " professional ", we often mean that this person is a real talent, extremely good and even much better than
her / his competitors or colleagues.

JH

[TiasDad]

This would mean that to be a professional singer, one would need a great voice ... I'm sure Rod Stewart would disagree

[Jeff Hollande]

Yeah Rod Stewart is a talented great singer and a fantastic entertainer.
A Super Star  !

JH

[travlin-easy]

Highly skilled, outstanding musicians are a dime a dozen throughout the world. Most do not earn enough money to support themselves, let alone their family. I personally know hundreds of them, and most have a primary job that has absolutely nothing to do with music.

In order to make a living, one that is sufficient to run a household, pay the bills, support the family, etc..., you need to be an good musician, excellent entertainer and great singer. If you meet all three of these conditions you will do just fine, however, there is a lot more than meets the eye. Additionally, you must also be a great salesman, booking agent, bookkeeper and businessman. You must be willing to work 7 days a week, 365 days a year and all holidays. Essentially, you must be married to the job!

Good luck,

Gary

[Jeff Hollande]

Oh Yeah ... that is a lot, Gary.

You have been a gigger all your life, right ?
You know exactly what a pro gigger needs to be.
IMHO, a very tough job. Not easy at all.

For the time being, due to Covid 19, all professional giggers have a very difficult time. A struggle for life.

Take care, JH

[mikf]

It can be a tough life to make a full time living in music, especially from typical local gigging. But some do so quite successfully, - Gary and Don Mason are two great examples. And there are there ways to be a full time professional musician bedsides playing wedding and bars. I had a cousin who gigged or played cruise ships all of his life, and another who combined being head of music at a local school with gigging in the evenings for many years, and made a very comfortable living from music. Both were terrific players, much better than me. 
And as well as making a basic living, another big consideration on the professional musician choice might be what other options you have in life. Are you  really good enough to compete at the higher levels you ultimately will find among full time musicians where the standard can be super high. Or maybe you have a great day job where you can make a lot more money than ever likely from gigging, so that naturally wins out over music as a career.
There is of course the tiny, tiny number who do hit it fairly big in music as a career. One of my school acquiantinces was a good guitarist /singer and started a rock band at school. After a lot of hard work and scraping a living, they hit it big with a global hit record. The cult following he developed from that means that he still plays large gigs across the globe in his mid seventies, with a son now also making a living from the band, as his original members died off. But hitting that level might be similar odds to winning the lottery.
Mike