A-5000 features in SX-900 ??

[Live Musician Newbie]

PSR S 975 Owner here

Was watching demo of A5000 and reading the user manual.
There is one GOD SENT feature of A5000 and that is the amazing portamento control which would improve my genre of music.
Portamento features in addition to what is present in the SX900
- Velocity Used for Crossfade Portamento (Last note / First Note)
- Portamento Time Type (Fixed Rate / Time)
- Fast Playing Portamento - (Time Threshold / Time)
- Velocity to Portamento Time - (Vel Sensitivity / Ref Vel)
.... The above features are so good, that it would even blow the Soft synths out of the equation for my music genre.

However the A5000 has a great drawback and that is, its middle east oriented, misses out on 30% of the wonderful voices and styles of SX900 in favor of the Arabic ones which are useless to me (except maybe one or two voices)


Now I am faced with a purchase decision to upgrade my S975

Question :
Since SX 900 and A 5000 are almost the same keyboard, with near Identical Operating system, can I somehow include (import) the above Portamento features into SX900?
Or
Will there be an update to SX900 Operating system to include the above features ?
Or
Is there another keyboard coming up?

Please respond.

[Amwilburn]

Having played them both, I can tell you that they are *not* 95% the same keyboard.

It's actually surprising to me, since the PSRA3000 was at least the PSRs770, but with the sample ram of the s970. The A series was always based of the 'middle' model of PSR. Until now: the A5000, sx600 and DGX670 share the same base chipset, but of course with the A5000 having loads of Middle Eastern instruments added on top. If you are primarily looking to play Middle Eastern music, and especially if you need quarter tone scales on the fly, then yes, you *should* get the A5000. (all the other PSR's can do quarter tone scales as registrations, but not as flexible as on the fly)

But you'll be sacrificing the Seattle Strings /Real Strings, choirs, of the s970/975/sx700/sx900, and the T5 exclusive guitars, the phrased and jazz scat voices, solo strings and better piano of the sx900.

Now, you can put *some* of those back in with the 1gb of sample ram space (yes, same as on the sx900... and it even does Audio styles like the sx900/s970). But it is most certainly the same chipset as the sx600/DGX670/s770/s775. However, you'll almost certainly be loading some of the old Middle Eastern sounds into that 1gb; the built in watariats are more legato, but actually *less* powerful sounding than the ones from the A3000. More nuanced, though.

And while the ethnic drums are incredible on the A5000, the actual speakers are *much* less punchy than the s970/s975, sx900 or the old PSRA3000/A2000/A1000


There is a reason why it's priced just slightly above an sx700, but much less than an sx900.

Mark

[Live Musician Newbie]

Hi Thank you for the response

Sadly, got a "vague" response from Yamaha support
There may or may not be in the replacement PSRSX900.  We cannot rule anything out or guess at this- we have no information on upcoming models at this time.


Regarding the A5000 The quarter scales etc are of no use to me,
I am only astounded with the additional portamento features of the A5000. This is going to be a game changer can rival or even obliterate the soft synths, being used in my part of India at least.

The additional A5000 middle eastern sounds / styles are of zero value to me though. (except maybe the istanbul strings)

Questions on what you said.

ethnic drums .... actual speakers are *much* less punchy than the s970/s975.

On paper
PSR Sx900 Amplifiers - (15 W + 10 W) x 2 / Speakers : 13 cm x 2 + 2.5 cm (dome) x 2
PSR A5000 Amplifiers - 15 W x 2                  Speakers : 13 cm x 2 + 5 cm x 2
So yes, the 10W from the SX is missing, was not aware it would make such a difference.
Hope there are no differences if I will be connecting it to external audio, or record it as wav. Right ?
I mean the sound processing should be the same isn't it?

But you'll be sacrificing the ......

Say I want to add only the strings and maybe a few choirs from the SX900, is that possible? and how ?
In other words can I choose what sounds I want to add back into the A5000 from an Sx900 or say even from my s975 ?


Going thru a few user manuals of the S series Sx series and Genos ....... I have observed that Yamaha doesn't skip these "common" features in their new releases, so maybe their new keyboard will have the portamento features that I am interested in. (Should I wait )
Any thoughts ? comments ? News leaks, Am I wrong ?

[Amwilburn]

On paper, the A5000 amplifiers are the same as those on the s950, , s750, s970, s770, s975, s775, and SX700.

In practice, there are crossovers (where the hi and low freq's ... cross over) and EQ's involved that change the sound perception dramatically: the PSR3000 had an amazingly balanced, full, warm, yet with punchy bass speaker set. (30w, like the A5000). then they lowered the wattage to 24w for s900, s910... quieter, less punchy bass, but still clean and warm tone.

Then came the s950, they'd heard the lack of bass complaints; and it was really, really punchy! Unfortunately, the treble was also overpowering, so that it caused me ear fatigue at high volumes (couple that with the onboard T4 drums being sampled in mono, along with any of the new brass/strings that were new going from the T2 chipset onward were also mono sampled). Then the s970/s975... still a 15+15 w system, but clear & punchy, without any high frequency ear fatigue (which is one reason I bought one).

The A5000 uses the less bass punchy speakers from the s750/s770/s775. So yes, if you output to an external speaker set, won't make much difference, but using the built in speakers for personal monitors, the sound... just doesn't convey the same energy without that deep bass component.

Try an sx900 next to an A5000 in a store yourself, you'll see.

But as I've stated; if the middle eastern sound palette and life control quarter tone scale is of no use to you, you're *much* better off getting the sx900, because that's what you're paying for from an A5000 over the sx600. (not even the sx700, which surprised me.)

Also, the previous A2000/A3000 also used the same amplifier set as their corresponding s7xx, but with a very boosted bass response. The speakers on the A5000 were... unexpected.

You can't add the strings from the sx900 per se, but there are sample packs out there (from Yamaha and others) that can give you at least a similar sound in most categories.

Under normal circumstances, the Genos 2 would've probably been teased by the end of this year, and the subsequent sx series would've arrived another 1.5 years after that. But with the AKM fire and parts supply shortages, these are far from normal circumstances.

If you're waiting for the next sx series? I can tell you not to expect the next full upgrade until well after the next Genos. (there *have* been half step upgrades, like the PSR2100 1 year after the PSR2000, and the s975 2.5 years after the s970, and the CVP210 1 year after the 209). since this is merely a function update, yes it's possible we'll see a mk2 of the sx900/sx700. Keep in mind these half step upgrades share the same chipset and architecture as their originals, just with a couple of minor additions (in the case of the CVP210, not that minor: smoother piano sample and USB B port!)

[Live Musician Newbie]

Yamaha Expansion Manager 2.7.0

Reading the manual in their website
Page 14 : Under Configuring Common Settings
I see Sections

• General
• Controller

and

• Portamento Detail

But opening the YEM, I do not see the Portamento Detail under the Common Settings
My Install target is S975 . and so obviously the settings mentioned in the manual under Portamento Detail isn't Physically available in the keyboard.

Question : Are these YEM settings dependent on keyboards ? and the YEM Owners Manual forgot to mention that ?
Or
Is there a way I can create a voice / pack with the above additional portamento features (mentioned under portamento details in the manual) similar to A5000 that would fit into my S975 ?

[overover]

Hi Live Musician Newbie,

These Portamento features were added in YEM version 2.8.0. Obviously the text you quoted does not come from the YEM V2.7.0 manual but from the YEM V2.8.0 manual. So you have to install the current YEM version (2.8.1) on your computer. (Note: According to Yamaha, this version requires Windows 10 or 8.1, i.e. Windows 7 is no longer officially supported.)
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/1396982/yamaha_expansion_manager_en_om_v280_k0.pdf

Unfortunately, I don't know whether the new Portamento features will be supported by other models besides the PSR-A5000. The YEM Version History says:

V2.7.0 to V2.8.0

    - Now supports the PSR-A5000.
    - Expanded Drum Keys to 128 for keyboards that support 128-note Drum kits.
    - Now supports upgraded Mono/Portamento for the keyboards that support those functions.
    - Solved some other minor problems.

* Do not use content to be released from now with previous versions (V.2.7.0 or earlier).


Since I do not have a S975, I unfortunately cannot test it for you. Either you install YEM V2.8.1 and test it yourself, or you ask Yamaha support directly which models exactly support the new Portamento functions of the YEM.


Best regards,
Chris

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Live Musician Newbie]

Thank you for the clarifications.

I just checked the YEM Reference Manual under s975.
Went to A5000 section and again checked it and now this is clear.


End note : I badly badly badly want those GOD SENT portamento features of the A5000 that's going to be a game changer for my music.
But I do not want space occupied by *Middle eastern content* which is useless.
I compared the voice list / Drum kits / Style contents of A5000 vs PSR SX900 and I will be missing the awesome content of PSR SX, and this is keeping me away from A5000

Guess I have no other options but to wait.

[Live Musician Newbie]

ONE LAST DITCH EFFORT

Can any existing SX900 owners, download YEM 2.8.0
And , using the target device as your SX900 , please check if you are able to see these additional Portamento Detail in the Common Settings ?
Options I am looking for under Portamento Detail are
- Vel Xfade
- Portamento Time Type
- Fast Playing Portamento
- Velocity to Portamento time
- Min Portamento time.

It would help me greatly if someone does the above.

Awaiting your responses.

[overover]

Hi Live Musician Newbie,

the new Portamento features are always visible in YEM V2.8.1, regardless of which Install Targets are currently present in the YEM.

The import of existing Voices (.PPF, .UVN or .SF2 format) or the creation of new Custom Voices as well as the Voice editing takes place in the "My Packs" view, ie not for a specific Install Target.

A user would first have to create a Custom Voice in YEM using the new Portamento features, then install the Pack with this Voice on an SX900 and test whether the SX900 can do anything with it.

By the way: When I took the screenshot attached to my previous post, I had the Install Targets Genos and SX900 in YEM V2.8.1.


Best regards,
Chris

[Live Musician Newbie]

 

First of, thank you so much for taking your time to respond.
Really appreciate that.

Now this sounds promising and EXCITING 
Can you or anyone please please check that for me as well?
Please ?? You will be helping me decide on SX900 instead of rejecting A5000

What I am expecting is this.
Once you create a new pack with the new voice, using the latest YEM, install it in the SX900. and check whether you are seeing the above ADDITIONAL portamento options.
These additional portamento options may also appear under a new section Common 2 as I see it under A5000 ??
Sorry for confusing you, the only access to SX900 / A5000 are thru user manuals and youtube videos.

Please someone help me with these information and I would really appreciate it.

Thanking you a lot in anticipation.

[overover]

Hi Live Musician Newbie,

Since I "only" have Genos and Tyros5, I unfortunately cannot test this on an SX900. On occasion I will test whether the Genos plays the new Portamento features when a Voice programmed in the YEM 2.8.1 is installed.

BUT: Even if the Genos or the SX900 can process/play these new features, I think it is out of the question that they will NOT show them on the display with the current firmware. This means that such Voices could not be edited in the Genos/SX, but you would have to use the YEM again. Possibly you could also save the installed Voice in the keyboard as a User Voice and then edit this .VCE file in a MIDI program such as MixMaster.

The crucial point is whether keyboards other than the PSR-A5000 can interpret the new parameters with the current firmware, or whether this is only possible after a future firmware update.


Best regards,
Chris

[Live Musician Newbie]

As they say, when your dreams are high, even god gives in

I believe the voices edited / created with the YEM 2.8.0 (with the additional portamento settings) can be PLAYED
However the additional settings wont show up.
Proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oVH-UMbnXY
(Used Translator to understand what he was saying. Thanks to the gentleman for uploading it)


With this cleared out, I am still thinking if I am ready to take the big plunge and hope the SX900 will have a firmware update that would display these as well. Fingers 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

🙏🏻Thank you sir from the bottom of my heart for patiently answering all my queries.

If there is anyone who can try these settings in Genos, SX900 please keep this thread updated.

[kamranwasti]

On paper, the A5000 amplifiers are the same as those on the s950, , s750, s970, s770, s975, s775, and SX700.

In practice, there are crossovers (where the hi and low freq's ... cross over) and EQ's involved that change the sound perception dramatically: the PSR3000 had an amazingly balanced, full, warm, yet with punchy bass speaker set. (30w, like the A5000). then they lowered the wattage to 24w for s900, s910... quieter, less punchy bass, but still clean and warm tone.

Then came the s950, they'd heard the lack of bass complaints; and it was really, really punchy! Unfortunately, the treble was also overpowering, so that it caused me ear fatigue at high volumes (couple that with the onboard T4 drums being sampled in mono, along with any of the new brass/strings that were new going from the T2 chipset onward were also mono sampled). Then the s970/s975... still a 15+15 w system, but clear & punchy, without any high frequency ear fatigue (which is one reason I bought one).

The A5000 uses the less bass punchy speakers from the s750/s770/s775. So yes, if you output to an external speaker set, won't make much difference, but using the built in speakers for personal monitors, the sound... just doesn't convey the same energy without that deep bass component.

Try an sx900 next to an A5000 in a store yourself, you'll see.

But as I've stated; if the middle eastern sound palette and life control quarter tone scale is of no use to you, you're *much* better off getting the sx900, because that's what you're paying for from an A5000 over the sx600. (not even the sx700, which surprised me.)

Also, the previous A2000/A3000 also used the same amplifier set as their corresponding s7xx, but with a very boosted bass response. The speakers on the A5000 were... unexpected.

You can't add the strings from the sx900 per se, but there are sample packs out there (from Yamaha and others) that can give you at least a similar sound in most categories.

Under normal circumstances, the Genos 2 would've probably been teased by the end of this year, and the subsequent sx series would've arrived another 1.5 years after that. But with the AKM fire and parts supply shortages, these are far from normal circumstances.

If you're waiting for the next sx series? I can tell you not to expect the next full upgrade until well after the next Genos. (there *have* been half step upgrades, like the PSR2100 1 year after the PSR2000, and the s975 2.5 years after the s970, and the CVP210 1 year after the 209). since this is merely a function update, yes it's possible we'll see a mk2 of the sx900/sx700. Keep in mind these half step upgrades share the same chipset and architecture as their originals, just with a couple of minor additions (in the case of the CVP210, not that minor: smoother piano sample and USB B port!)

Hi,
I hope you are well.
Thank you for your brilliant comments
I have an S970 and I have a pretty beefed up USB with almost everything I want
I have to upgrade
The options (given my financies)
970 vs 975 vs T5 vs A5000 vs SX900 (Genos is out)
Is A5000 a reasonable upgrade over SX970?
If I have all the files for SX900 on a USB, can I use them to 'beef up' A5000 to the former's level?
Please advise.

[Amwilburn]

Hi,
I hope you are well.
Thank you for your brilliant comments
I have an S970 and I have a pretty beefed up USB with almost everything I want
I have to upgrade
The options (given my financies)
970 vs 975 vs T5 vs A5000 vs SX900 (Genos is out)
Is A5000 a reasonable upgrade over SX970?
If I have all the files for SX900 on a USB, can I use them to 'beef up' A5000 to the former's level?
Please advise.

As I've already stated, the A5000 is actually based on the sx600 chip, but with a *ton* of exclusive Middle eastern content. So that means there's even stuff from the s970/sx700 you'll be missing (the Boys Choir Oohs and Aas, the Real Strings/Seattle Strings (those are the same patch with different names) are all missing on the A5000. And no, Yamaha doesn't offer YEM downloads of keyboard preset sounds, nor will they ever, as that would defeat the purpose of having different keyboards. At least, to *Yamaha*, that would defeat the purpose. Korg? Uses the same sound library for each generation. PA4x, PA1000, PA700 all have the same sound library, which ironically means PA700or and PA4Xor both have the bigger sound libraries!

If you absolutely have to have the portamento features, get the A5000. But the piano, strings, choirs, brass, guitars and drums are all significantly behind the sx900's. The only things they share in common is the 1012 mb of sample expansion area and the plastic casing & screen. The speakers sound *significantly* less punchy as well.

If you' don't need ME sounds, though, even the s970/sx700 are improvements on the A5000. So you will be downgrading both sounds and speaker quality for the portamento

Why not save up for a G2, which *does* have the portamento features? (Fast playing, velocity portamento, etc)? If that's simply not in the budget, then wait for the actual upgrade (sx710/sx910 or whatever they'll call it). I assume they'll be here by the 3rd or 4th quarter 2025.

It's been 5 years, no they're not adding new features to the sx700/sx900 (nor did they ever say they were. Other than the G1, all OS updates have merely been bug fixes).

If you are looking at sounds, and *not* ME sounds, the A5000 is a downgrade from the s970.
s975 and s970 are the same keyboard, but with half bar fill, and more expansion, including the Middle Eastern "Oriental Pack" sounds already installed as preset sounds.

T5 the ppf expansions don't even all work on the T5 (for some reason, none of the Indian sounds transfer other than the drums; there's more incompatibilities but that's the one I remember off the top of my head.)

And as you can see from my quote in 2021, I still stand by what I said: G2 would've normally been announced before the end of 2021, but I didn't expect it until at least 2023 (and that's what happened). And I still don't expect an actual upgrade PSRsx series until at least 18 months aftert the G2, so maybe in another year to year and a half. However, that doesn't stop them from releasing a repackaged PSRsx900 (let's say a PSRsx905) in the same way they repackaged the s970 to the s975, the PSR2000 to the PSR2100. If they do a repackage, you can almost guarantee the actually *new* version will be about 18 months after that. PSRs975 launched April 2018, sx900 Oct 2019.

Please, please try the A5000 at the store and bring your s970 in for comparison. Other than the ME sounds and the touch screen, the s970 actually blows away the A5000 because it's for a different purpose. THe s970 sound library is in the sx700, and that's one of the reasons the sx700 is so popular.

Incidentally, going to an sx700 from an s970 isn't a full upgrade - you lose vocal harmony, punchier speakers, audio styles, and go from 512mb sample are to 400mb, of which almost half is already occupied by factory installed preloaded expansion, so you'd need to delete that first; and the s970 has 125mb so of installable Audio styles, sx700 has 0.

On the other hand, you go from 2 right layers to 3 (very important for orchestral /Big band) and the slick new touch screen interface.

Mark

[kamranwasti]

As I've already stated, the A5000 is actually based on the sx600 chip, but with a *ton* of exclusive Middle eastern content. So that means there's even stuff from the s970/sx700 you'll be missing (the Boys Choir Oohs and Aas, the Real Strings/Seattle Strings (those are the same patch with different names) are all missing on the A5000. And no, Yamaha doesn't offer YEM downloads of keyboard preset sounds, nor will they ever, as that would defeat the purpose of having different keyboards. At least, to *Yamaha*, that would defeat the purpose. Korg? Uses the same sound library for each generation. PA4x, PA1000, PA700 all have the same sound library, which ironically means PA700or and PA4Xor both have the bigger sound libraries!

If you absolutely have to have the portamento features, get the A5000. But the piano, strings, choirs, brass, guitars and drums are all significantly behind the sx900's. The only things they share in common is the 1012 mb of sample expansion area and the plastic casing & screen. The speakers sound *significantly* less punchy as well.

If you' don't need ME sounds, though, even the s970/sx700 are improvements on the A5000. So you will be downgrading both sounds and speaker quality for the portamento

Why not save up for a G2, which *does* have the portamento features? (Fast playing, velocity portamento, etc)? If that's simply not in the budget, then wait for the actual upgrade (sx710/sx910 or whatever they'll call it). I assume they'll be here by the 3rd or 4th quarter 2025.

It's been 5 years, no they're not adding new features to the sx700/sx900 (nor did they ever say they were. Other than the G1, all OS updates have merely been bug fixes).

If you are looking at sounds, and *not* ME sounds, the A5000 is a downgrade from the s970.
s975 and s970 are the same keyboard, but with half bar fill, and more expansion, including the Middle Eastern "Oriental Pack" sounds already installed as preset sounds.

T5 the ppf expansions don't even all work on the T5 (for some reason, none of the Indian sounds transfer other than the drums; there's more incompatibilities but that's the one I remember off the top of my head.)

And as you can see from my quote in 2021, I still stand by what I said: G2 would've normally been announced before the end of 2021, but I didn't expect it until at least 2023 (and that's what happened). And I still don't expect an actual upgrade PSRsx series until at least 18 months aftert the G2, so maybe in another year to year and a half. However, that doesn't stop them from releasing a repackaged PSRsx900 (let's say a PSRsx905) in the same way they repackaged the s970 to the s975, the PSR2000 to the PSR2100. If they do a repackage, you can almost guarantee the actually *new* version will be about 18 months after that. PSRs975 launched April 2018, sx900 Oct 2019.

Please, please try the A5000 at the store and bring your s970 in for comparison. Other than the ME sounds and the touch screen, the s970 actually blows away the A5000 because it's for a different purpose. THe s970 sound library is in the sx700, and that's one of the reasons the sx700 is so popular.

Incidentally, going to an sx700 from an s970 isn't a full upgrade - you lose vocal harmony, punchier speakers, audio styles, and go from 512mb sample are to 400mb, of which almost half is already occupied by factory installed preloaded expansion, so you'd need to delete that first; and the s970 has 125mb so of installable Audio styles, sx700 has 0.

On the other hand, you go from 2 right layers to 3 (very important for orchestral /Big band) and the slick new touch screen interface.

Mark

Absolutely marvellous!

Thank you!

So A5000 is out. For me, depending on my budget, it would be either S975 or T5 or SX900

Genos will always be out of range for a few years... so I cannot bother with that

[Amwilburn]

Absolutely marvellous!

Thank you!

So A5000 is out. For me, depending on my budget, it would be either S975 or T5 or SX900

Genos will always be out of range for a few years... so I cannot bother with that

Er... you know a used Genos is going for about the same price as a new sx900?

Mark

[kamranwasti]

Er... you know a used Genos is going for about the same price as a new sx900?

Mark

Its size is an issue for me as well but I'll look for it.