Losing Ambience without playing styles and Accompaniment

sunny · April 16, 2021, 10:27:04 AM

Friends,

When both Voice and Styles are played, the Voice sound is good getting some ambience, but when the style and accompaniment is stopped and only voice is played, i am losing some ambience for the voice (i.e) say R1.

So, How to apply same ambience (Reverb and DSP effects) used for (style and accompaniment) to be applied for voice also when the Style and Accompaniment is stopped ?

Thanks,
Sunny

ckobu · April 16, 2021, 11:18:19 AM

The effects of the system, Reverb and Chorus are always associated with style. If the SONG is activated, they will change accordingly because they are then called from the song. When you stop Style and if you don't change it to someone else, Reverb and Chorus on the right hand sounds RIGHT 1,2,3, Reverb and Chorus won't change. They will be the same you should not feel the difference. Watch this video to explain it.

https://youtu.be/zuXxXAA2Xjo

jwyvern · April 16, 2021, 01:20:17 PM

Sunny, the reverb type is set by the style and as ckobu implies, this does not alter depending on whether the style is running or not. If you are hearing insufficient reverb from a voice when the style is stopped however, it is probably because that particular voice's reverb "level" needs to be raised to meet your requirements. Just as with Tyros's the level is a property of the individual voice, (not the system or style) and it can be changed from the mixer or the voice editor.
John

Lee Batchelor · April 18, 2021, 06:45:48 AM

Sunny, from a musical point of view, there are effects (reverb) that are applied when an instrument is played along with other instruments and then there are effects that are applied when the instrument is played as a solo instrument. They are totally different. If I understand what you're trying to accomplish, I would use the following set up in a Registration bank:

1) Reg 1 for the Intro and ensemble parts
2) Reg 2 for the solo piano part with extra reverb and other parts muted as needed
3) Reg 3 to go back to to the ensemble part of the song

Registrations are extremely powerful and give us the ability to customize a song into 10 parts at a time.

- Lee

sunny · April 21, 2021, 11:19:32 AM

Quote from: jwyvern on April 16, 2021, 01:20:17 PM
Sunny, the reverb type is set by the style and as ckobu implies, this does not alter depending on whether the style is running or not. If you are hearing insufficient reverb from a voice when the style is stopped however, it is probably because that particular voice's reverb "level" needs to be raised to meet your requirements. Just as with Tyros's the level is a property of the individual voice, (not the system or style) and it can be changed from the mixer or the voice editor.
John

Hi John,
I tried playing Voices with style and accompaniment, the sound effects are good, but when i suddenly stop style and accompaniment, the sound is different as some sound effects are switched off.

So how can i recognize the sound effects whicht are assigned to the style accopaniment, so that I can apply those effects to the voice.

Thanks,
Sunny

DerekA · April 21, 2021, 02:30:25 PM

Quote from: sunny on April 21, 2021, 11:19:32 AM
I tried playing Voices with style and accompaniment, the sound effects are good, but when i suddenly stop style and accompaniment, the sound is different as some sound effects are switched off.
So how can i recognize the sound effects whicht are assigned to the style accopaniment, so that I can apply those effects to the voice.

I'm very confused. That just doesn't happen. Stopping the style does not change the global chorus / reverb type or parameters, or the effect depth, assigned to the panel (L/R1/R2/R3) voices.

Can you write more clearly the exact steps you are performing? Or, better, made an audio recording and post it?

mikf · April 21, 2021, 03:51:42 PM

Like Derek says, there are no 'sound effects' which add to voice when the style plays. My guess is that what you are hearing is not a main voice or sound effect, but a soft pad voice that is actually part of the style and one of the style voices. Try going into the mixer with everything playing and turn off style parts one at a time to hear a difference.
Mike

jwyvern · April 21, 2021, 05:00:43 PM

Quote from: sunny on April 21, 2021, 11:19:32 AM
Hi John,
I tried playing Voices with style and accompaniment, the sound effects are good, but when i suddenly stop style and accompaniment, the sound is different as some sound effects are switched off.

So how can i recognize the sound effects whicht are assigned to the style accopaniment, so that I can apply those effects to the voice.

Thanks,
Sunny

From what you say it appears you have a voice in the style which (unusually! ) you want to duplicate in the right hand so you can play it seamlessly when the style is stopped?
Be aware that the style and panel voices are listed with their properties in different sections of the Mixer so you have to touch Style or Panel at the top so you are in the appropriate section. Once there select Reverb/chorus at the left to see or make those adjustments and to get to see if any DSP's are in use touch Effects at left and if necessary make a note so you can assign a similar effect to your panel voice.
John

mikf · April 21, 2021, 09:05:55 PM

Quote from: jwyvern on April 21, 2021, 05:00:43 PM
From what you say it appears you have a voice in the style which (unusually! ) you want to duplicate in the right hand so you can play it seamlessly when the style is stopped.

I don't think this is what he wants. He thinks the voice he has chosen has some effects applied which stop when the style stops, so it sounds different. But that does not happen. I am not sure what he is hearing that he calls ambience, But whatever he is hearing has to be part of the style, not an effect applied to the voice which just disappears. A soft heavily chorused pad chord sound for example might sound like ambience to some people. He could try to identify the voice and effects and layer it on his right voice. But I don't think this would produce the same effect as a pad continuous chord driven by the style.
Just my guess.
Mike

jwyvern · April 22, 2021, 02:02:17 AM

Quote from: mikf on April 21, 2021, 09:05:55 PM
I don't think this is what he wants.
Mike

I don't think we have enough data to "know" what the OP must be thinking, so have to use a fair amount of speculation. Sunny has some years of experience using Tyros's so it seems odd there is a special problem with Genos unless sunny is experimenting with new ways of combining styles and voices which are currently not clear to us.

Sunny it may help if you can provide more detail of your setup eg. What style are you actually using and what panel voice(s) are you using with it. Are you playing Church music (hence use of the term ambience and requirement for significant reverb without style running would make sense, and quickly rectified) Western music or Indian, and anything else that might help us understand where the difficulties might lie.

John

sunny · April 22, 2021, 04:45:05 AM

Friends,
Thanks for all your replies.
Normally I play Genos on stag without using style accompaniment.

Please let me know how to identify what sound effects- Reverb,Chorus,DSP and otherTouch effects are assigned to style accompaniment.

Secondly I wan't to know what sound effects are used for the demo of each preset voice ?

Thanks,
Sunny.

jwyvern · April 22, 2021, 05:04:15 AM

This is what I posted earlier,
"Be aware that the style and panel voices are listed with their properties in different sections of the Mixer so you have to touch Style or Panel at the top so you are in the appropriate section. Once there select Reverb/chorus at the left to see or make those adjustments and to get to see if any DSP's are in use touch Effects at left and if necessary make a note so you can assign a similar effect to your panel voice."

Generally if you are setting up effects for a panel voice you will get better results making adjustments and checking by ear while playing the voice directly rather than assuming copying the style effects will give the optimum for a played voice.

Unfortunately you did not give us more detailed info requested yesterday.
John

DerekA · April 22, 2021, 05:24:47 AM

Quote from: sunny on April 22, 2021, 04:45:05 AM
Secondly I wan't to know what sound effects are used for the demo of each preset voice ?

It's just the same DSP that's called up when you select the voice. Nothing is added during the demo phrase, though they have been played with some skill and dynamics to produce the 'best' result.

Either use the mixer to check the DSP assignment on the part, or open Voice Set and go the effect page.

mikf · April 22, 2021, 07:50:07 AM

Effects are not added to the style. I don't think you are grasping this. They are added to voices, whether that be main voices or style voices.
There have been debates on this and other forums as to why the voice demos seem to sound better than when we play them. As already stated above, the reason is nearly always because of how it is played, not because it is technically different.
Mike

sunny · April 22, 2021, 10:03:18 AM

Quote from: DerekA on April 22, 2021, 05:24:47 AM
It's just the same DSP that's called up when you select the voice. Nothing is added during the demo phrase, though they have been played with some skill and dynamics to produce the 'best' result.

Either use the mixer to check the DSP assignment on the part, or open Voice Set and go the effect page.

Hi,

How we can produce thoso dynamics ?

Sunny

DerekA · April 22, 2021, 10:30:04 AM

How hard do you strike the note, how long do you hold it for, how much aftertouch do you add, how smoothly or not you move between notes, how much rest space you leave, how much sustain pedal you use, how you vary the volume with the expression pedal, how much live control you use.

You know, the playing skills you can really only build up with experience.